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I think it would be awesome if they made 40K ‘dwarfs’ 9 feet tall.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
Given Ancestor Cores are giant AIs, wonder how they’ll reinterpret Living Ancestors? Maybe Mentat style beings? Or cyborgs enhanced with Ancestor tech?

AI facsimiles of venerable Kin created from memory uploads and data stored within the Votann inhabiting mechanical golem-like recreations of their bodies, with them degrading over time and/or convinced that they're still themselves but slowly realize they're fake and going mad requiring resetting. Seen as an honour as they get as close to their "god" as they can be by becoming an extension of the Votann and themselves becoming an integral part of the whole "Ancestor Worship" thing with "Living Ancestors" being elements of the Ancestor core in Squat form.

So, since it looks like Squats have power armor that looks like better, less embellished marine armor I wonder how viable putting Dwarf Heads on 2nd edition Marine bodies will be. LOL

soooo.. Men of Gold/ Men of Iron ?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Ooooh!

Now we know what a Votann actually is!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/04/22/the-leagues-of-votann-are-coming-but-what-actually-is-a-votann/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=warhammer-40,000&utm_content=blpregallery230422&fbclid=IwAR00muBFJb_TAKrjgGvzwTTIc8rED5_du6PBwIN2J27k5-BSQBk8UfvvLVg

So the squats have a Dr. Theopolis?

Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

"Rude alert! An electrical fire has knocked out my voice recognition unicycle!" - Some Squat ancestor machine probably.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Nope. They’ve got a Holly, as it’s gone a bit peculiar

Could be interesting if it decides to pretend to be Queeg...

Do we have an idea of when Warhammer day is or what the mini might be [quietly hoping for a LoV model like they ddi for Sisters].

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

I hope the Ad Mech doesn't find out about their talking toaster.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
That only works if they have a Kat and a Lister as well............

Well.

It’s currently implied the AI includes some kind of engram from Ancestors. So that’s your Rimmer sorted out. And with rumours they’ll have some take on Men of Iron? There’s your Kryten.

Lister is just Kin, Cat could be a Felinid.

Boys from the Dwarfs.

I hope the Ad Mech doesn't find out about their talking toaster.

Knowing them it’s a coin flip as to whether they declare it heresy or start worshiping it as the divine incarnation of the Omnissiah!

It’s the Scutters you need to watch for. Wilful little buggers, Scutters.

Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

So many space dwarf kickstarters (well, 12 at least... that's quite a few)

https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/advanced?ref=nav_search&term=space%20dwarf

All the ended ones should be findable online.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

Clearly you don’t know many lawyers or bankers.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

All the more reason for me to never play another game of 40k against another human being, then.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s the Scutters you need to watch for. Wilful little buggers, Scutters.

Or in their own words...

 KidCthulhu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

They are barely taller than their bolters and standing proud on goblin green bases. What more can you ask for?

If you like Rogue Trader style this KS looks very good, not my thing but it lookalike a modern version of the original squat designs.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maggletminis/space-dwarfs-operation-army-28mm-miniatures

Looking forward to Warhammer Fest to see some new Votann stuff though. Maybe get a glimse of some of the wider range and maybe a hint of if/when an army box might be coming.

 Strg Alt wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

Not gonna lie, these really scratch the 2nd Edition "What Could Have Been" itch. Very nice indeed!

They are barely taller than their bolters and standing proud on goblin green bases. What more can you ask for?

I love those sculpts but IMHO there's no excuse for -as appears to be the case- making them noticably shorter than the GW/CITADEL originals.

I almost wonder if GW is "modernizing" the Squat design so much because they want to stand out from all these nostalgia-inspired models (and they're too numerous to to litigate all of them).

KillerAngel wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

I don't think the article ever mentions AI.... maybe its not artificial? I'm wondering about the name "Ancestor Core". I think it would be very grim-dark and fit the setting to have the Votann actually be a bunch of no-longer-quite-living Ancestors hooked up to be part of a giant computer. It could explain the size, since the structure of the Votann has to entomb the bodies or brains. And that sort of technology could be similar to a dreadnought sarcophagus or even the golden throne.

It could also explain the degradation and the personalities. Maybe there are limitations to the technology, but out of reverence, respect, and tradition the Kin just keep plugging in additional Ancestors. Like a bunch of old brains talking and arguing over an answer. Maybe the brain in charge of outputting the answer delivers some chiding elderly criticism along with its response. Or maybe some brains start unexpectedly going dark... or some get infected with chaos.

gravitywell wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
Re-reading the Votann Article, If they've only developed "personalities" as a result of their degradation, does that not suggest they aren't actually AI? Otherwise they'd have something resembling a personality in the first place?

If I understand your question correctly, I think the intent is to differentiate between traditional/modern AI (no personality, just a set of algorithms that perform a function) with sci-fi AI that has gained "sentience."

I don't think the article ever mentions AI.... maybe its not artificial? I'm wondering about the name "Ancestor Core". I think it would be very grim-dark and fit the setting to have the Votann actually be a bunch of no-longer-quite-living Ancestors hooked up to be part of a giant computer. It could explain the size, since the structure of the Votann has to entomb the bodies or brains. And that sort of technology could be similar to a dreadnought sarcophagus or even the golden throne.

It could also explain the degradation and the personalities. Maybe there are limitations to the technology, but out of reverence, respect, and tradition the Kin just keep plugging in additional Ancestors. Like a bunch of old brains talking and arguing over an answer. Maybe the brain in charge of outputting the answer delivers some chiding elderly criticism along with its response. Or maybe some brains start unexpectedly going dark... or some get infected with chaos.

Basically the big MT from fallout NV (not saying that is a bad thing btw), with great minds, prolonged long after they should have died, bickering.

I also like that there is then potential for renegade squats, with their AI core thinking noticeably differently and hugely disagreeing with the status quo to the point they do engage in armed conflict.

Anyway, only thing that bugs me is that if the AI/core things are capable of solving complex problems, why don't they solve the limited memory issue... Unless the squats don't want them too incase they become too powerfu.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
Incidentally, for anyone disappointed with the Votann stuff, there's a small Kickstarter going on for some space dwarves clearly inspired by GW's unreleased 2nd edition Squats. Just 3 different sculpts that form a single squad, but they look quite nice to my eyes so I pledged for a set.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/curis/roknaut-space-dwarf-28mm-sci-fi-wargames-and-rpg-miniatures

They’re nice sculpts to be sure. But in the modern TLOS, a red flag to a bull to TFG if you try to use them in a game.

Nowt some tactical rocks couldn't fix

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I almost wonder if GW is "modernizing" the Squat design so much because they want to stand out from all these nostalgia-inspired models (and they're too numerous to to litigate all of them).

I assume that's part of it. Whether tweaking at the margins or full on PrimariSizing, GW does like to mix things up to stay ahead of the game.

A complete redesign seems unnecessary though as even a design more reminiscent of the fluff released as a plastic kit would far outsell any of the small shop figures. You can already buy small shop versions of almost any GW product you can name but folks still but the GW products more.