Squats return! - Page 11

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**Andykp**

Olthannon, you are entitled to your opinion but just remember it’s wrong!!!! (According to HN).
Ridiculous, i agree with you, the newer model is horrible. Short beard squats all the way.

Ps, passive aggressive is a lot better than the plain and simple aggressive HN seems to use everywhere.

**John D Law**

Took me a while to find them but I remember 10/15mm versions of the LoV being around some 10 years ago!

. So there is precedent on this look.

**Geifer**

Altruizine wrote:
Would either of you be so kind as to link me to the Beserks lore? I've been desperately searching for the lore, but all I've been able to find is ~150 words worth of blurbs from a recent Warhammer Community preview. I would love to replace that -- clearly not enough of anything to constitute lore, so you must be talking about a separate lore lode -- with lore, but the hypothetical lore hoard remains elusive. I'm having difficulty getting properly lored up, and it's beginning to affect my life in unexpected ways.

As a general thought on the preview articles, Warhammer Community isn't always the best at getting the facts straight and obviously the articles will only ever be brief summaries of the codex's background section, but shouldn't we at a minimum expect that they at least present the key points of the lore they're talking about?

In the case of the berserkers, we all know they're Slayers in space, and we know well enough the lore behind Slayers. If the berserkers have any depth to their own background, whether it is similar to Slayers or an entirely different take, the preview article doesn't mention it. It seems like a nonsensical thing to do* to let readers fill in the blanks or otherwise take the article at face value if there is more to their lore in the codex that could be explained in an extra line or two in the article.

It seems like at the moment we have the choice between believing in bad background writing ("they go shirtless because they're brave") or bad marketing ("they're brave, nothing more of value to be said"). I don't find either option very inspiring.

*Unless it's one of those silly marketing strategies of keeping up interest through controversy, but I hope GW doesn't actually do that kind of stuff.

**Wha-Mu-077**

Frankly, given the lore we currently know, the most plausible explanation (or at least my headcanon) is this;

One of the Votann bugged out, and accidentally farted out an entire generation of unstable psychopaths with an extreme innate desire to beat the absolute crap out of people while naked, and all the rest of the lore, including their bravery, was made up by the Votann in a desperate attempt to save it's giant metal face and explain how their current predicament is totally not their own fault. Their "combat role" also known as being given melee weaponry and told to run face-first at the enemy while basically naked, is said Votann's attempt at killing all of them off while not looking too suspicious to the rest of Kin society and other Votann.

**Mentlegen324**

Altruizine wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
(HN) wrote:
Tyel wrote:
I kind of think Codex: Mini Ogryn is so weird and unique it might have a kind of charm. I sort of want them, even if I am opposed.

But equally, its not unreasonable to say I was looking for Codex: The beard that walks like a man. And while Fyreslayers were a failure (for me at least), I can't help feeling these Beserks would be cooler if they were channelling the 1990s Slayer characters.

Something doesnt really work here, I'd say that visually it's the lack of bear (I'm sorry, but beardless/shortbeard dwarf will always look off especially when they don't have a big armor to hide their rotund physiology) but where it really fail is the lore.

Where the FB slayers had a pretty specific explanation for their existence, one that perfectly fit and deepen the general lore of their race as an honor-bound society, and what losing your honor meant for them, these guys just have no good explanation as to why they are there and do not fit AT ALL with the rest of their race.

It's as if the people in charge of the LoV where forced to check some "mandatory stereotypes" but didn't understood why they existed in the first place.
"Ho yeah, slayers. Angry shirtless dudes with 2H axes, right?"
It's painfully superficial.

Would have been so easy to solve the lore side of it, too. The Leagues are a meritocracy. Just make them into Kin who are so eager to prove themselves they forgo ranged weapons and armour because they believe the extra challenge to be overcome is worthwhile as they go around fighting whatever monsters they can find. A boasting sort of "defeated an Ork Warboss with nothing but this, to honour my ancestors and add to my reputation" situation. That would feel better than just "they're super brave miners", and be a bit a little closer to a sci-fi version of the fantasy Slayers which they're inspired by.

If they really didn't want to change that much about them though, then why not just make them Shipbreakers or Salvagers rather than miners? Their weapons would at least make more sense that way.

I also think level of augmentations just doesn't line up with the idea of them being "heavily augmented", it's not really shown the model itself. We've seen basic hearthkin with cybernetic eyes and feet and an Einhyr with a face cybernetics, even.They especially don't give across being augmented to the point of surviving in space or the ocean depths to me.

The idea of cyberslayers is cool enough on its own, but they just feel like there wasn't much thought put into doing both the model or the lore in a believable way.

Would either of you be so kind as to link me to the Beserks lore? I've been desperately searching for the lore, but all I've been able to find is ~150 words worth of blurbs from a recent Warhammer Community preview. I would love to replace that -- clearly not enough of anything to constitute lore, so you must be talking about a separate lore lode -- with lore, but the hypothetical lore hoard remains elusive. I'm having difficulty getting properly lored up, and it's beginning to affect my life in unexpected ways.

It's strange if you think that a Warhammer Community article, even though they don't tell us everything, wouldn't at least give a summary of the most important points behind the units lore when the point of the article is to introduce us to that unit and establish an overview of what they are and involve. The initial reason given for them was they're "Fearless in the cause of locating, securing, and harvesting resources for their race, the Cthonians think nothing of braving environments so extreme that even other Kin would baulk at their hazards.". If there is some important explanation beyond that, it should have been mentioned or hinted at, but the article dedicated to the unit specifically doesn't go into any further detail than "they're brave".

**A Town Called Malus**

There's also a difference between being brave and being a moron.

Someone who is brave doesn't forgo protective equipment if it is available, refusing it because you are "brave" just makes you a moron.

**cuda1179**

I'm hoping it's more along the lines of "without armor, they can move faster and have their fighting styles less encumbered."

Justify it with +2 movement and +1 attack or something.

**Mentlegen324**

cuda1179 wrote:
I'm hoping it's more along the lines of "without armor, they can move faster and have their fighting styles less encumbered."

Justify it with +2 movement and +1 attack or something.

but surely if that was the case the Leagues could design a set of more suitable armour for them to use that didn't restrict them as much, or even just have the armour built into them somehow - Kin don't avoid melee combat in the first place, after all. That wouldn't really justify them being shirtless too either.

**Togusa**

With the recent rumor leak that 10th edition is going to be a wipe the slate edition al a 8th, it would seem reasonable to believe that any books which come out between September and next June are literally a waste of money. Just like the CSM book from the end of seventh, a lot of stuff will have about 6 months worth of usage and then likely get replaced in a new book release cycle. It's also reasonable to assume that LoV will get a wave two release in the near future, because that is what they've done for: Lumineth, DoK, SoB, Primaris, GSC, etc and this appears to be a trend they're following.

I think I will wait to see what kind of a mess 10th ends up being before choosing to buy into this faction.

**NAVARRO**

Togusa wrote:
With the recent rumor leak that 10th edition is going to be a wipe the slate edition al a 8th, it would seem reasonable to believe that any books which come out between September and next June are literally a waste of money. Just like the CSM book from the end of seventh, a lot of stuff will have about 6 months worth of usage and then likely get replaced in a new book release cycle. It's also reasonable to assume that LoV will get a wave two release in the near future, because that is what they've done for: Lumineth, DoK, SoB, Primaris, GSC, etc and this appears to be a trend they're following.

I think I will wait to see what kind of a mess 10th ends up being before choosing to buy into this faction.

In for the models here, this release its looking like its going to be a big one in therms of new kits. Probably patrol box etc.

**Togusa**

NAVARRO wrote:
Togusa wrote:
With the recent rumor leak that 10th edition is going to be a wipe the slate edition al a 8th, it would seem reasonable to believe that any books which come out between September and next June are literally a waste of money. Just like the CSM book from the end of seventh, a lot of stuff will have about 6 months worth of usage and then likely get replaced in a new book release cycle. It's also reasonable to assume that LoV will get a wave two release in the near future, because that is what they've done for: Lumineth, DoK, SoB, Primaris, GSC, etc and this appears to be a trend they're following.

I think I will wait to see what kind of a mess 10th ends up being before choosing to buy into this faction.

In for the models here, this release its looking like its going to be a big one in therms of new kits. Probably patrol box etc.

I wonder how much more stuff their is to show off?

**silverstu**

Togusa wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
Togusa wrote:
With the recent rumor leak that 10th edition is going to be a wipe the slate edition al a 8th, it would seem reasonable to believe that any books which come out between September and next June are literally a waste of money. Just like the CSM book from the end of seventh, a lot of stuff will have about 6 months worth of usage and then likely get replaced in a new book release cycle. It's also reasonable to assume that LoV will get a wave two release in the near future, because that is what they've done for: Lumineth, DoK, SoB, Primaris, GSC, etc and this appears to be a trend they're following.

I think I will wait to see what kind of a mess 10th ends up being before choosing to buy into this faction.

In for the models here, this release its looking like its going to be a big one in therms of new kits. Probably patrol box etc.

I wonder how much more stuff their is to show off?

Well we haven't seen any characters- I'd imagine at least 4 plus a "mounted" special character, plus the Land Fortress. Beyond that haven't seen any heavy weapon infantry - might get a squad of those? [Devastator equivalent - used to be called Thunderers for Squats]. Possibly artillery?

**Mentlegen324**

There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

**Togusa**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

**Mentlegen324**

Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

What do you mean? There's a unit with that name coming.

**Arbitrator**

Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

The leaked datacards mention the Hekaton Land Fortress. It's probably going to be a smaller, Heavy Support throwback to the old land fortress rather than the same thing, handwaved away as "well it's Votann, not Squat."

There'll probably be a beatstick HQ because... dwarves. Thayne-Lord or something. The mechanic Kin might come with a few buddies in a small unit. Pioneer will probably have some head/weapon swaps we've not seen.

**cuda1179**

My bets/educated guesses/ partial info I've seen says we will see:

At least two types of HQ plus special characters.

Medic for elites

Some kind of walker

Land Fortress

Devastator Squad equivalent

Unit variations of kits we've already seen.

Perhaps a fortification

**TekMission**

I wonder how much more stuff their is to show off?

Well, as of now there are four unrevealed rumor engines that I'd confidently say are LoV. None look like the eventual Hekaton Land Fortress, though. So five more previews, give or take as some releases get two rumor engines.

**(HN)**

Altruizine wrote:

Would either of you be so kind as to link me to the Beserks lore? I've been desperately searching for the lore, but all I've been able to find is ~150 words worth of blurbs from a recent Warhammer Community preview. I would love to replace that -- clearly not enough of anything to constitute lore, so you must be talking about a separate lore lode -- with lore, but the hypothetical lore hoard remains elusive. I'm having difficulty getting properly lored up, and it's beginning to affect my life in unexpected ways.

Is that the new strat now?
Pretending that GW clear information given about unit lore is "not enough of anything to constitute lore"?
How long is enough for ya? And since when "150 words" isn't enough to constitute lore exactly?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Togusa wrote:
With the recent rumor leak that 10th edition is going to be a wipe the slate edition al a 8th, it would seem reasonable to believe that any books which come out between September and next June are literally a waste of money. Just like the CSM book from the end of seventh, a lot of stuff will have about 6 months worth of usage and then likely get replaced in a new book release cycle. It's also reasonable to assume that LoV will get a wave two release in the near future, because that is what they've done for: Lumineth, DoK, SoB, Primaris, GSC, etc and this appears to be a trend they're following.

I think I will wait to see what kind of a mess 10th ends up being before choosing to buy into this faction.

I mean... GW rule books have been a waste of money for a while now since they get outdated a couple of month after release at best, and sometime even BEFORE release at worst.

**Flinty**

They can’t call it Kahl surely. Otherwise everyone (me) will spend the whole time shouting KAHL… GET TO DA CHOPPA!

**Togusa**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

What do you mean? There's a unit with that name coming.

Where was this announced? I see nothing of it.

**Mentlegen324**

Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

What do you mean? There's a unit with that name coming.

Where was this announced? I see nothing of it.

It hasn't been announced properly, but it appears on one of the datacards.

**Tastyfish**

Not announced, but a set of the datacards got linked with strats and psyhic powers.

**Togusa**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

What do you mean? There's a unit with that name coming.

Where was this announced? I see nothing of it.

It hasn't been announced properly, but it appears on one of the datacards.

Oh, well I wait for an official announcement, stuff like that can be photoshoped easily and isn't as trustworthy in my opinion.

**Mentlegen324**

Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
Togusa wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
There seems to be quite a lot that we don't know about

Some sort of leader (Kahl?)
Grimnyr
Broykr / whatever the Ironkin will be with (possibly with COG robots)
Hekaton Land Fortress
Seems there might be another bike unit
Bolters and L7 Missile Launcher for the Hearthkin
Whatever will use the Graviton cannon and conversion Beamer
Haven't seen the Etcarn Plasma gun on anything yet
Whatever unit will have a "Hesyr" as a Squad leader

I'm not so sure the land fortress is going to be a thing. Something like that really doesn't seem to fit the theme they're going with now. I was hoping for some kind of drop ship.

What do you mean? There's a unit with that name coming.

Where was this announced? I see nothing of it.

It hasn't been announced properly, but it appears on one of the datacards.

Oh, well I wait for an official announcement, stuff like that can be photoshoped easily and isn't as trustworthy in my opinion.

These are photos of the datacards. They gave us the names of the Cthonian Beserks and the Einhyr Hearthguard before they were even announced.

**Lord Damocles**

No, no, Wait And See!

**lord_blackfang**

I would quite like the Cthonian Berserker sculpts if they were 250% the size and represented some sort of Ogryn. I appreciate they don't have any random nordic garbage on them.

**MajorWesJanson**

lord_blackfang wrote:
I would quite like the Cthonian Berserker sculpts if they were 250% the size and represented some sort of Ogryn. I appreciate they don't have any random nordic garbage on them.

I just left the HH thread where half of the comments about the Space Wolf upgrades were "No wolf, we wanted nordic stuff instead!"

**Wha-Mu-077**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
I would quite like the Cthonian Berserker sculpts if they were 250% the size and represented some sort of Ogryn. I appreciate they don't have any random nordic garbage on them.

I just left the HH thread where half of the comments about the Space Wolf upgrades were "No wolf, we wanted nordic stuff instead!"

Wow it's almost like different factions have different aesthetics.

**ImAGeek**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
I would quite like the Cthonian Berserker sculpts if they were 250% the size and represented some sort of Ogryn. I appreciate they don't have any random nordic garbage on them.

I just left the HH thread where half of the comments about the Space Wolf upgrades were "No wolf, we wanted nordic stuff instead!"

And that’s relevant here because..?