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 Strg Alt wrote:
Blatant Edge of Tomorrow rip-off. Since when has Tom Cruise a beard? And more importantly: Where is Emily Blunt? I would have bought an exosuit with her in it. But creepy garden gnomes?! No way.

Emily Blunt did star as a garden gnome in Gnomeo and Juliet, so she is indeed present here in spirit!

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.

If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.

The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.

They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.

According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.

Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.

So, I just watched the lore video on WH+.

Honestly, some interesting ideas and parts I really liked. Anyone hoping that squats are going to be the good guy human faction is going to be disappointed. They’re a different flavour of fascist to the Imperium. Less zealous genocidal theocracy, more ‘we won’t think twice to commit genocide if we think it’s in our interests’.

The thing that bothers continues to bother me though is this; every piece of LoV art looks one thousand times better and more interesting to me than all of the miniatures. I couldn’t put my finger on it until I realised they’re consistently being depicted in the art with more human proportions. I think I could have actually liked the model range if the squats were a bit less squat. More Hobbit movie dwarf than GW “I have no knees” dwarf.

And here I thought the terrible thing about modern GW dwarfs is that they actually have knees.

Not sure good guy human faction was ever a concern? I thought the major criticism about it all sounding too good to be true was about Leagues sounding like they're plain better at everything with no downsides of any nature. Unless you think just treating robots like real people is enough to make you the good guys?

 Geifer wrote:
And here I thought the terrible thing about modern GW dwarfs is that they actually have knees.

Not sure good guy human faction was ever a concern? I thought the major criticism about it all sounding too good to be true was about Leagues sounding like they're plain better at everything with no downsides of any nature. Unless you think just treating robots like real people is enough to make you the good guys?

^ goalpost moving

Many of those "concerns" specifically called out the (supposed) socially harmonious, benevolent and unified exterior of the faction. People were not just fretting about high-tech guns and daem-munity.

I know at least some people were happy to have a good guy human faction that's not the icky fash Imperium.

It does make for a lovely change of pace.

 Geifer wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.

If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.

The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.

They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.

According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.

Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.

I liked the loremasters video, lays down the structure and they are very much rooted in old squat lore but with a modern twist. And in true 40k fashion they are a race in trouble with the votann being unreliable but need for warp travel etc.

The ironkin thing was good to know and clears up that this is in fact a snug helmet, just as I’d hoped. There were glimpses of stuff in the artwork too that could have been larger vehicles too.

Andykp wrote:

 Geifer wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 warboss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Reminder that we're still missing whatever unit this guy is supposed to accompany - from the article it seemed like it was a Brôkhyr HQ choice - to go together with the Brôkhyr sub-faction (like the Thunderkin).

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

So I guess the iron face/helmet wasn't an ironkin? The flying legless miner bot was the one that I initially took as the ironkin. Regardless, I'm not a fan of this one at all as it feels a bit too much like the admech bots introduced 5ish years ago for me. Not every line can be perfect and for me this is the first previewed stinker for the main line 40k squats.

If you mean the helmet on the Kahl, that could still be an Ironkin.

The ironkin are meant to evoke the feeling of a more sophisticated version of the Imperial Robots, because that's basically what they are. They both have similar DAoT designs in common.

They even said in the design article that they robots and the LoV armour shared a similar design on purpose.

According to the Loremaster video (which is up by the way if any interested subscribers were waiting, an entitled part one so there is more to come down the line)), Ironkin tend not to take command roles as it's not their area of expertise or something.

Similarly, ancestor cores aren't in any leadership role and instead just handy lexicons. Leadership in the Leagues seems to be overwhelmingly in the hands of actual space dwarfs.

I liked the loremasters video, lays down the structure and they are very much rooted in old squat lore but with a modern twist. And in true 40k fashion they are a race in trouble with the votann being unreliable but need for warp travel etc.

The ironkin thing was good to know and clears up that this is in fact a snug helmet, just as I’d hoped. There were glimpses of stuff in the artwork too that could have been larger vehicles too.

I'm not sure about that being a helmet. One of the pieces of artwork in the video is 2 very similar heads laying next to an Ironkin head as it talks about making them.

But the video says that ironkin aren’t ambitious and never take on leadership roles. So it’s not ironkin.

Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?

Well GW have done it, these will be the first 40k miniatures I have bought for at least a decade or so. I love the sculpt designs, the character in the miniatures - I think they are just enough of a reference to the originals, without being too much (I am actually glad they have more of a 'sci-fi' feel than the originals did). Overall, I think whoever has done the concept and design really needs to be applauded, they've done a cracking job.

I'm going to be use them for 2nd edition 40k sure (I am pleased to see its a straight connection with most of the old unit entries!) but I am sure GW does not care whence (or where to?) the money flows, only that it flows!

Andykp wrote:
But the video says that ironkin aren’t ambitious and never take on leadership roles. So it’s not ironkin.

No, it doesn't actually say that in the way you're implying. The video did not say that in such a way as to rule out the possibility entirely.

Firstly, one of the articles said it does sometimes happen:

it’s rare (but not unknown) for an Ironkin to possess ambition, or seek to become a leader.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/06/lore-of-the-votann-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

And what the latest video actually said was "Ironkin Tend not to land in positions of command..." not that it can't happen.

Nowhere has it been said "they never take on leadership roles".

Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.

JSG wrote:
Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.

Yes, clearly.

JSG wrote:
Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.

It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.

“Ironkin tend not to end up in positions of command, such as Kâhl, this is not where their strengths lie”

This is the quote from the loremasters. It specifically calls out Kâhls and says the don’t tend to end up in that position, and it’s rare for them to be ambitious. They are more helpful then leaders. So why would they have an ironkin option on the model that they specifically say they don’t end up as.

Yes it isn’t a definite, so I could see them making a named ironkin leader, or it’s open enough for a home brew one, but no chance it’s an option in a mainstream kit.

That’s my take anyway, also no other iron kin has a head like that, that we’ve seen. I could be wrong but even if I am my Kâhl will have that head and it be a helmet.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JSG wrote:
Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.

It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.

I think that's more likely to end up being a special character rather than a regular option in a kit [looks more like a fancy artificer helmet to me]. Just my opinion, you could well be right.
loving all the lore so far- that they are more numerous than Tau or Eldar, that one of the Leagues has broken Ork Waaghs and Imperial crusades. The feel is definitely dwarf- I'm glad they aren't a dwindling race- I always felt bad losing with my eldar as I felt I was speeding their decline.
They also name dropped a Kahl who has a great destiny according to the prophesies of the Votann so I'm guessing he'll end up as a special character. Some the art was brilliant as well- one of their hammer shaped ships- absolutely massive with a broken imperial cruiser across its prow looking tiny.

 silverstu wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

JSG wrote:
Does make it less likely that the mini is supposed to be an Ironkin though.

It's the same lore we already had - doesn't happen much, but it can happen. Ironkin rising to the rank of Kahl is unlikely, but there's a big difference between "rare" and "never" as was suggested.

I think that's more likely to end up being a special character rather than a regular option in a kit [looks more like a fancy artificer helmet to me]. Just my opinion, you could well be right.
loving all the lore so far- that they are more numerous than Tau or Eldar, that one of the Leagues has broken Ork Waaghs and Imperial crusades. The feel is definitely dwarf- I'm glad they aren't a dwindling race- I always felt bad losing with my eldar as I felt I was speeding their decline.
They also name dropped a Kahl who has a great destiny according to the prophesies of the Votann so I'm guessing he'll end up as a special character. Some the art was brilliant as well- one of their hammer shaped ships- absolutely massive with a broken imperial cruiser across its prow looking tiny.

They do have a good feel to them, very much dwarves and lots of stuff from old squats. I liked the hearhs, forges and crucibles. The organisation of the holds and oathbonds is good to. All very traditional squat/dwarf stuff, then you chuck in clones and Al and the fact the votann are losing the plot. All good.

Andykp wrote:
“Ironkin tend not to end up in positions of command, such as Kâhl, this is not where their strengths lie”

This is the quote from the loremasters. It specifically calls out Kâhls and says the don’t tend to end up in that position, and it’s rare for them to be ambitious. They are more helpful then leaders. So why would they have an ironkin option on the model that they specifically say they don’t end up as.

Yes it isn’t a definite, so I could see them making a named ironkin leader, or it’s open enough for a home brew one, but no chance it’s an option in a mainstream kit.

That’s my take anyway, also no other iron kin has a head like that, that we’ve seen. I could be wrong but even if I am my Kâhl will have that head and it be a helmet.

Food for thought, the multipart Marine captain used to come with a Deathwatch shoulder pad. You could buy ten and make a chapter's worth of former Deathwatch members to make up your chapter's command structure. By the background that would be exceedingly unlikely to happen, but that doesn't stop the inclusion of one small bit on the sprue for people who want that option.

For Squats we're looking at one of those rare cases of a character that comes with options on the sprue. I could see the designers going with something ambiguous like a carved dwarf face helmet to allow people to have an Ironkin as leader. Or a normal space dwarf, considering we can't tell whether what's under the helmet is flesh or metal.

No idea if that fits with the fluff that Ironkin bodies aren't usually subject to change. We haven't seen an Ironkin without armor/dome head/helmet to my knowledge. No idea if that's part of their body or an external bit and their actual head could fit inside the dwarf face helmet.

Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?

Nothing at all. GW is likely very conscious about writing things the way they do. They don't want Ironkin to have a meaningful place in the command hierarchy, but they'll make damn sure the option to have an Ironkin commander is not categorically ruled out so people who are into the idea can have one, even if it represents a rare case.

That looks like what they’ve done fluff wise. It’s open enough to allow folk to do it if they want, and I wouldn’t have an issue with it or using that head as an ironkin. I still don’t think that’s the intended purpose of that part though.

All other ironkin we have seen have a distinctive look, in art or the miniatures. Ironkin don’t swap out body parts, their bodies are very personal too them, as reiterated in the videos, so they wouldn’t build a new leader head, if an ironkin got promoted the fluff suggested that they would have the same head as a normal ironkin.

As for the deathwatch parts, any marine can have been a deathwatch marine, that’s not uncommon, so it was just a nice extra to have in the kit. It’s apples and oranges really.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?

That's the first step on the path to Chaos Squats.

 warboss wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Even if it's not actually supposed to be an Ironkin' noggin, what's stopping anyone from declaring it happens to be one on their miniature?

That's the first step on the path to Chaos Squats.

Even they aren’t rules out either, GW are keeping terror options open with the squats.

I like that the Imperium is confused about the Votann, not realising or recognising that they are using AI, and the very same discussion is happening here. I think you could make arguments for that 'death mask' style head being either an organic creature wearing a helmet (albeit very snug) or an AI and thats just a metal shell.

 Pacific wrote:
Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?

We don't know, but as a guess, yeah, we're speculating that there will be a launch box and it won't be much longer until it goes up for pre-order given we seem to be reaching the end of the model previews. Then a couple of months until the codex and separate box releases.

That of course assumes no unforeseen logistics issues and, of course, that Squats don't get an uncharacteristically large model wave to go with the codex, as GW could then draw out the previews even longer.

 Geifer wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Am I correct in guessing pre-orders are likely to appear over the next few weeks or so, perhaps release end of September or October?

We don't know, but as a guess, yeah, we're speculating that there will be a launch box and it won't be much longer until it goes up for pre-order given we seem to be reaching the end of the model previews. Then a couple of months until the codex and separate box releases.

That of course assumes no unforeseen logistics issues and, of course, that Squats don't get an uncharacteristically large model wave to go with the codex, as GW could then draw out the previews even longer.

Perhaps there's going to be more previews between the launch army box, and the separate box releases?

I am wondering what will be in the army box.

My thought on the combat patrol would be the Kahl, the troops, the Brokyrs and the moon buggy.

The full Sisters of Battle box was fairly substantial, was there a vehicle? Or just the penitent engine?

 Olthannon wrote:
I am wondering what will be in the army box.

My thought on the combat patrol would be the Kahl, the troops, the Brokyrs and the moon buggy.

The full Sisters of Battle box was fairly substantial, was there a vehicle? Or just the penitent engine?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/11/sisters-of-battle-army-set-unboxinggw-homepage-post-1/

TLDR;
1 Canoness
10 Sisters
5 Seraphim
5 Repentia
3 Arco-Flagellants
1 Penitent Engine

So a good variety of units, but some in smaller amounts than you'd get them normally, and not the full kits.

 Olthannon wrote:
I am wondering what will be in the army box.

My thought on the combat patrol would be the Kahl, the troops, the Brokyrs and the moon buggy.

The full Sisters of Battle box was fairly substantial, was there a vehicle? Or just the penitent engine?

Sisters of Battle box is a bad example to go by, as it was made up of simplified build stuff.

After that box, we've only seen things made up of full kits. Lumineth, Orks, and Black Templars were all full kits packed early--and basically were Combat Patrol sized.