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Andykp wrote: They interviewed (briefly) the designers about the leagues and jes has overseen this release so you are quite right. The modern designs have much more of a nod to actually working, or at least a coherent approach to actually working. Even in the grav tanks of the primaris, the share the same design elements. But this. Is what I like about Jes Goodwin designs, he doesn’t let practicality get in the way of a cool look or concept, like bubble canopies. What the rules guys do with it after that is their business and much less important to me.
Was the interview posted to WarCom or their YouTube channel? I can't seem to find it.
The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
Honestly when it comes to any setting you have to get into the headspace of the setting. At that point you either get it and love it or you don't get it and might not love it or might even hate it.
People also have different backgrounds, experiences and understandings that create different limit points.
Eg in fantasy many people have no problem with scenes of horses charging all over the place when heading out on a long journey. Meanwhile any real horse rider with long distance experience knows that if they charged out like that the horse would be done in long before they'd ever reach their destination. Or that they'd have to be changing horses very regularly to maintain such a speed
Sometimes the real life understanding and experience can result in the inability to actually get into a setting be it on the TV, in a book, on a tabletop. You just see the inaccuracies and can't get into the flow and feel for the setting.
Of course sometimes learning more is a false element. Eg in Warhammer I'd wager learning a lot about modern warfare would leave you shaking your head at the madness and inaccuracies; however I'd wager a more historical take might actually let you see all the little nods of design inspired by real life historical uniforms, weapons and ideas. Yes its still insane by "today's" standards, but its not if you start looking at the snapshot bits of history. The Imperial Guard are, for example, much more a WW1 army taken to the extremes and then thrust into the future.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/06 11:05:31
NAVARRO wrote: The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The force I want to make will be centred around a mobile element representing an exploratory force starting off. For me those models ooze character.
Oddly the only berserker model that I really like Is the one with the mole mortar or whatever it’s called now, the least likely weapon for crazed close combat troops. I hope you can take it as a stand alone unit not just as an upgrade. Does anyone know from codex reviews?
NAVARRO wrote: The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The force I want to make will be centred around a mobile element representing an exploratory force starting off. For me those models ooze character.
Oddly the only berserker model that I really like Is the one with the mole mortar or whatever it’s called now, the least likely weapon for crazed close combat troops. I hope you can take it as a stand alone unit not just as an upgrade. Does anyone know from codex reviews?
Spoiler:
Based on points page it's unit upgrade. Which isn't surprise based on preview article showing berserkers.
NAVARRO wrote: The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The force I want to make will be centred around a mobile element representing an exploratory force starting off. For me those models ooze character.
Oddly the only berserker model that I really like Is the one with the mole mortar or whatever it’s called now, the least likely weapon for crazed close combat troops. I hope you can take it as a stand alone unit not just as an upgrade. Does anyone know from codex reviews?
Spoiler:
Based on points page it's unit upgrade. Which isn't surprise based on preview article showing berserkers.
Thanks. Will have to see what I make of the beserks in person, least fave of the units but there have been times I didn’t like a unit until I saw it in the plastic!
I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Also a bit of a shame the Brokkyr Ironmaster unit doesn't have any customization, would have been cool to be able to adjust what's with him so you could have different amounts of Ironkin and COGs.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/06 13:04:26
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Not that your complaints isn't valid because of a nitpick, but there also an Ironkin in the mortar team that you missed
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/06 13:34:51
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Not that your complaints isn't valid because of a nitpick, but there also an Ironkin in the mortar team that you missed
He’s my favourite. They are designed to be helpful, I can imagine this one being like, “hey, I’ll carry your big heavy axe, and no probs just hang your canteen right on there!”
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Also a bit of a shame the Brokkyr Ironmaster unit doesn't have any customization, would have been cool to be able to adjust what's with him so you could have different amounts of Ironkin and COGs.
I’m glad they haven’t over done it. There’s scope for more in the future for sure. I can see a special character ironkin at some point. But for now it works better as a quirk, not something very common. For me, when I am building my army I can’t imagine I’ll have many outside of support stuff like those two.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Not that your complaints isn't valid because of a nitpick, but there also an Ironkin in the mortar team that you missed
I didn't miss it, it's a COG not an ironkin - Cogs have a bolt on their head, Ironkin have a speaker. It's listed as a COG in the rules.
Overread wrote:Honestly when it comes to any setting you have to get into the headspace of the setting. At that point you either get it and love it or you don't get it and might not love it or might even hate it.
People also have different backgrounds, experiences and understandings that create different limit points.
Eg in fantasy many people have no problem with scenes of horses charging all over the place when heading out on a long journey. Meanwhile any real horse rider with long distance experience knows that if they charged out like that the horse would be done in long before they'd ever reach their destination. Or that they'd have to be changing horses very regularly to maintain such a speed
Sometimes the real life understanding and experience can result in the inability to actually get into a setting be it on the TV, in a book, on a tabletop. You just see the inaccuracies and can't get into the flow and feel for the setting.
Of course sometimes learning more is a false element. Eg in Warhammer I'd wager learning a lot about modern warfare would leave you shaking your head at the madness and inaccuracies; however I'd wager a more historical take might actually let you see all the little nods of design inspired by real life historical uniforms, weapons and ideas. Yes its still insane by "today's" standards, but its not if you start looking at the snapshot bits of history. The Imperial Guard are, for example, much more a WW1 army taken to the extremes and then thrust into the future.
Totally agree and also I think every individual has is own interpretation of what is actually the 40k setting. That alone makes people accept/reject some concepts.
I have a passion for miniature design, concept art and sculpt so for me an original take on old designs peaks my interest.
This range is design clever since it picks an extinct race and totally reboots the concepts, keeping the bridges to the past but pushing designs into new paths.
Andykp wrote:
NAVARRO wrote: The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The force I want to make will be centred around a mobile element representing an exploratory force starting off. For me those models ooze character.
Oddly the only berserker model that I really like Is the one with the mole mortar or whatever it’s called now, the least likely weapon for crazed close combat troops. I hope you can take it as a stand alone unit not just as an upgrade. Does anyone know from codex reviews?
Same I would ideally want a small exploratory force with one box for each kit. The idea to grab all these new and never seen kits and play with them all is just irresistible.
The conversions potential here is immense.
Andykp wrote:They look so good in these colours.
Another great colour choice. I think this is going to be a painters sandbox.
Wow! The Hekaton Land Fortress still doesn't look like a proper "land fortress", but it's significantly more massive than I expected based on the first pics of it. Not bad.
Also, I really like the Ymir Conglomerate paint scheme. And there seem to be closed-helmet options for Einhyr Hearthguard. I think I need a squad, of 10, with a Champion to lead them...
Drukhari - 4.7k
Chaos Space Marines - 2.9k
Space Marines - 2.7k
Harlequins - 0.75k
SarisKhan wrote: Wow! The Hekaton Land Fortress still doesn't look like a proper "land fortress", but it's significantly more massive than I expected based on the first pics of it. Not bad.
Also, I really like the Ymir Conglomerate paint scheme. And there seem to be closed-helmet options for Einhyr Hearthguard. I think I need a squad, of 10, with a Champion to lead them...
Seeing the einhyr guys in that pic with the helmets on makes me want to add a “bushido” banner to them from puppets of war. They just NEED it.
Overread wrote:Honestly when it comes to any setting you have to get into the headspace of the setting. At that point you either get it and love it or you don't get it and might not love it or might even hate it.
People also have different backgrounds, experiences and understandings that create different limit points.
Eg in fantasy many people have no problem with scenes of horses charging all over the place when heading out on a long journey. Meanwhile any real horse rider with long distance experience knows that if they charged out like that the horse would be done in long before they'd ever reach their destination. Or that they'd have to be changing horses very regularly to maintain such a speed
Sometimes the real life understanding and experience can result in the inability to actually get into a setting be it on the TV, in a book, on a tabletop. You just see the inaccuracies and can't get into the flow and feel for the setting.
Of course sometimes learning more is a false element. Eg in Warhammer I'd wager learning a lot about modern warfare would leave you shaking your head at the madness and inaccuracies; however I'd wager a more historical take might actually let you see all the little nods of design inspired by real life historical uniforms, weapons and ideas. Yes its still insane by "today's" standards, but its not if you start looking at the snapshot bits of history. The Imperial Guard are, for example, much more a WW1 army taken to the extremes and then thrust into the future.
Totally agree and also I think every individual has is own interpretation of what is actually the 40k setting. That alone makes people accept/reject some concepts.
I have a passion for miniature design, concept art and sculpt so for me an original take on old designs peaks my interest.
This range is design clever since it picks an extinct race and totally reboots the concepts, keeping the bridges to the past but pushing designs into new paths.
Andykp wrote:
NAVARRO wrote: The designs, even if new, have so many touchpoints and bridges with other 40k factions and the more you look at them the more you see that.
Its a clever and subtle way of making these part of 40k.
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The force I want to make will be centred around a mobile element representing an exploratory force starting off. For me those models ooze character.
Oddly the only berserker model that I really like Is the one with the mole mortar or whatever it’s called now, the least likely weapon for crazed close combat troops. I hope you can take it as a stand alone unit not just as an upgrade. Does anyone know from codex reviews?
Same I would ideally want a small exploratory force with one box for each kit. The idea to grab all these new and never seen kits and play with them all is just irresistible.
The conversions potential here is immense.
Andykp wrote:They look so good in these colours.
Another great colour choice. I think this is going to be a painters sandbox.
Precisely my thoughts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/06 23:27:28
They've really pushed the overarmoued super tough aspect of the squats, and what's more ridiculous than having the hearthguard riding trikes into battle?
Keen also to see if they decide to redevelop the overlord and other airships into a more scifi style of vehicle. The tau orca dropship style of thing, but with the hover coils.
Mentlegen324 wrote: I'm a bit surprised at the lack of Ironkin. When they were announced I thought there would be several within the range, but there's technically only 1 - the assistant for the Brokyr. There's a head option for an ironkin in the Hearthkyn, and one as a co-pilot in the Hekkaton, but I expected them to be more of a distinct thing, really. Hopefully Wave 2 solves that.
Also a bit of a shame the Brokkyr Ironmaster unit doesn't have any customization, would have been cool to be able to adjust what's with him so you could have different amounts of Ironkin and COGs.
I was a bit surprised about that as well. As you mentioned, I bet if and when they the leagues get their second wave of models (halfway through 10th edition, maybe?) there will be more of them in the codex. Add ons to units, stand alone, etc.
They've really pushed the overarmoued super tough aspect of the squats, and what's more ridiculous than having the hearthguard riding trikes into battle?
Keen also to see if they decide to redevelop the overlord and other airships into a more scifi style of vehicle. The tau orca dropship style of thing, but with the hover coils.
Oh man...let the design team play around with a ton of bits of some kharadon overlords airships and I bet they will come up with something cool!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/07 00:18:06
Never mind the color scheme, it's the first time I'm seeing helmets on the exo armor guys. Is it really that much to ask of GW to have some of their models wear helmets to show off the options in the kit? You know, in high resolution promo pictures? I really don't get this weird obsession with having so many Squats bareheaded. I've remarked time and again that I expect that there would be helmets for the whole squad, since that's something that can be reasonably expected of as GW kit, but their marketing really makes it hard to believe at times.
Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone?
On the artwork the Hekaton convoy looks so nice in the distance, almost like a full exploratory force arriving.
The conversions potential here is immense.
Andykp wrote:They look so good in these colours.
Another great colour choice. I think this is going to be a painters sandbox.
Yeah people have been having fun already with the Necromunda squats sorting out potential paint schemes already. I can't wait to see what the community does when the Votann arrive and start kit bashing. The Hekaton I think people will have a lot of fun with, similar to how people have treated the KO ships.
They've really pushed the overarmoued super tough aspect of the squats, and what's more ridiculous than having the hearthguard riding trikes into battle?
Keen also to see if they decide to redevelop the overlord and other airships into a more scifi style of vehicle. The tau orca dropship style of thing, but with the hover coils.
Yes there seems to be flyers in the art- in the army art and the miners art.I could see them having drop ships of some kind with oversized hover coils/jets [looks like that in the miners art]. I'd love to see them do more with the hearthguard ,probably not bikes but I didn't expect them to do such a cool job re-imagining trikes so I'm open to anything! Could have the power lances again. I'm a bit surprised the hearthguard didn't have more options- no heavy weapons and not much in terms of assault weapons- more axes/hammers would have been good. I wonder if there will be a Kahl in Exo suit. Perhaps the champion covers that but it would be a good option to have leading Hearhguard bodyguard unit.
Never mind the color scheme, it's the first time I'm seeing helmets on the exo armor guys. Is it really that much to ask of GW to have some of their models wear helmets to show off the options in the kit? You know, in high resolution promo pictures? I really don't get this weird obsession with having so many Squats bareheaded. I've remarked time and again that I expect that there would be helmets for the whole squad, since that's something that can be reasonably expected of as GW kit, but their marketing really makes it hard to believe at times.
I think it might have been to show the dwarfness and there was criticism around the Kharadron when they previewed that there where no faces.
I love the helmets with the faceplate/visor painted black - not keen on the metal version on the Thurman scheme. But yes I'd love to see proper photos of the kin with that scheme and all helmets. I didn't like the Necromunda helmets initially but there is something about them which gives that feel of a dwarf shape. I wonder of the Brokhyr have helmets- I think kit bashing Kharadron helmets with them could work and would be appropriate. Although the regular helmets might work too- the round collars on the armour look to make the head options cross compatible I think.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/07 08:53:42
Well these "squats" don't have much of dwarf to begin with. And plenty of beardless heads. Do better job of being space hobbits
Also look awfully tall. They should be 3 heads shorter than basic primaris marines to be the usual dwarf height of 5 feet but from the size comparisons don't really look like that.
Well apart from the beserks there who are likely a bit larger than their "bretheryn" the Kyn are smaller than the Orks in that battle photo.
GW have never been bang on with scale because it's about how they appear on the battlefield. It's heroic scale after all. Imperial Guard were about the same size as Space Marines. The "tactical rock" thing gets a lot of jokes but the basic idea behind it is you want your characters to be immediately recognisable on the tabletop. They certainly don't get it right on a lot of occasions and from what I've seen the AoS models seem to be far worse for it. But I understand the reason for it.
The Necromunda Squats that are likely a touch larger that the Votann still have a good Dwarf stature. They're a couple of mm taller than the 7th edition WFB Dwarf warriors. I don't know what size the AoS ones are but they're a likely better comparison for scale.
Boosykes wrote: Average Hight for males is 5.9 how is a dwarf 5 feet tall? At the tallest they should be 4.6
Well if you put dwarf at 4.6 feet for dwarves it's even more ridiculous with squats needing to be less than half the height of primaris...Where they look to be closer to 6 feet from model comparisons. Hopefully pictures are just off and they are 3-4 head shorter than primaris.
Boosykes wrote: Average Hight for males is 5.9 how is a dwarf 5 feet tall? At the tallest they should be 4.6
Well if you put dwarf at 4.6 feet for dwarves it's even more ridiculous with squats needing to be less than half the height of primaris...Where they look to be closer to 6 feet from model comparisons. Hopefully pictures are just off and they are 3-4 head shorter than primaris.
You now think that primaris marines are ten feet tall?
I agree that Votann are weirdly tall, but it is probably better compare them to GW's normal humans than to marines, whose scaling remains weird. (Like it or not, compared to GW's normal humans Primaris and Custodes are scaled to be roughly seven feet tall and new non-primaris marines about six and half.) Votann seem to be around fiveish feet, which is rather tall for a dwarf. Though of course it is hard to gauge this just by pics of unreleased models.
