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Hi guys.

Came back to the hobby in November after having played 15 years ago. I recall spending £8 on the third edition codex, and then when the fourth edition codex came out I spent £12 and the third became redundant.

As I started collecting Tau and Tyranids, I purchased the ninth edition Tau codex on release for £30. I wanted to have a nice book to go with everything, and I like to support GW rather than get the rules online. I also find it more convenient to have a book when playing rather than look at a phone. Eventually when they release the tenth edition I will have to buy that as well, but I am more than happy to spend £30 on a book that will last 4-5 years.

I was planning on buying the Tyranid codex when it releases in a week or so, but apparently GW have already, less than two months after releasing the ninth edition Tau codex, changed a load of the contents in a dataslate update.

So now I am very much wondering why I should bother spending £30 on the Tyranid book when it is going to become out of date 6 weeks later, and I will be unable to play a game using just the book for reference.

Is this just the way it is now? Because it very much feels like GW is pressuring people away from buying the physical books and towards using 3rd party online sources. I assume I am not the only one who feels this way so yeah just wanted to ask for some thoughts.

It's pretty much the way it is now. You can't really play without a codex, as that will have all the model stats and faction abilities. And the "plan" is absolutely releasing errata/FAQ around 6 weeks after publication. With 9th edition, they stopped doing ebook versions of the codices as well, so, yeah.

It can be frustrating, but players were ultimately more frustrated with being stuck with a broken book for 2-3 years.

So you guys would say it is still worth the money to buy the codex, even if the information becomes outdated soon after?

As I haven't kept up with the game the last decade, so how much information do they usually change between codexes? Are we talking a couple of points tweaks and maybe a stat buff/nerf or two?

random3 wrote:
So you guys would say it is still worth the money to buy the codex, even if the information becomes outdated soon after?

As I haven't kept up with the game the last decade, so how much information do they usually change between codexes? Are we talking a couple of points tweaks and maybe a stat buff/nerf or two?

"Worth it" is kind of only a factor if you want to play. You pretty much don't have an option; it's not like it will be free info in 6 months, 9 months, or ever really.

Generally you'll get one codex version per major version, and that timeline seems to be 2-4 years. The changes vary pretty widely; sometimes it's a few stat block changes, sometimes it's adding whole new abilities/units, etc. Point changes will happen every year pretty much with the new Chapter Approved thing, and possibly more frequently via errata.

Edit: I guess there is one "official" online way and that's through the 40k app, which is subscription based I think. Not sure, since I haven't bothered, but I think you may get updates if you buy access to the codex within the app (which aren't part of the base subscription either).

Codices are available everywhere. Why get stuck in by investing in this edition by actually buying these books is a mystery.

random3 wrote:
Is this just the way it is now?

Looks like you were winning for 15 years.

 jeff white wrote:
Codices are available everywhere. Why get stuck in by investing in this edition by actually buying these books is a mystery.

Well, we're assuming the OP doesn't want to look for pirated copies for one.

Buying GW's printed material is a complete gamble.

I got back in to 40k mid/late 8th, and I haven't bought a single physical Codex. Tyranids may tempt me, but that's it.

Is 40k/GW gaming the only option in your area? If not, there’s a ton of excellent games out there including several free ones where you can use your figures.

random3 wrote:
So you guys would say it is still worth the money to buy the codex, even if the information becomes outdated soon after?

As I haven't kept up with the game the last decade, so how much information do they usually change between codexes? Are we talking a couple of points tweaks and maybe a stat buff/nerf or two?

Well with old codexes you are going to struggle to play.

Pre-8e codexes you need to play whole different edition. You literally cannot use 5th ed codex in 9e. Totally incompatible.

If you use 8e codex in 9e...well sure that works. You are just seriously underpowered and are going to get massacred as a rule of thumb

If you have 4th ed codexes you could try looking around for players who still play that edition. There are such people(though 5th is more popular) but they are far and wide so won't be easy unless you are in very very big city. Possible yes and I know people who enjoy playing older editions(6th ed fantasy battle has become quite popular in Finland recently) so you can try that. There's certainly many positives for that route. Issue is just finding like minded people. Most keep up with newest edition for sake of easiness in finding opponents.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Is 40k/GW gaming the only option in your area? If not, there’s a ton of excellent games out there including several free ones where you can use your figures.

It is in most areas. Every time I move to a new area, I check out all the game stores and see what's being played. I love trying new games or painting something a little different. Other than 1 store in Alabama with a decent WMH following during the height of Mk2, it's pretty much been 40k across the board. If I want people to play any other games, it requires building and painting 2 opposing armies and hanging out at the gaming store until I can convince someone to try a demo. Even if they like the new game, there's reluctance to buy in unless other people also want to play.

Pay GW what their rules are worth to you...


Haven't bought a 9th ed codex yet and not planning on it.

The changing of rules/stats shortly after release is a FEATURE not a bug.

I reckon for you it sound's like it's worth it. After all you get a nice book with some art and fluff and stuff as well as the rules, and 95% of the rules (not including points values) will be correct until the next codex. You can just print out the faq's and keep them with the codex. Balance dataslate is only quaterly and will only have a small amount of info - and probably won't affect you too much unless you are fond of cheese.

Toofast wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Is 40k/GW gaming the only option in your area? If not, there’s a ton of excellent games out there including several free ones where you can use your figures.

It is in most areas. Every time I move to a new area, I check out all the game stores and see what's being played. I love trying new games or painting something a little different. Other than 1 store in Alabama with a decent WMH following during the height of Mk2, it's pretty much been 40k across the board. If I want people to play any other games, it requires building and painting 2 opposing armies and hanging out at the gaming store until I can convince someone to try a demo. Even if they like the new game, there's reluctance to buy in unless other people also want to play.

Absolutely. I was a off brand game evangelist for probably close to 20 years until we moved here. It’s a thankless, frustrating undertaking or at least it eas for me.

And only because I found a small group of three other guys willing to play non GW, have I been able to escape the’GW or no other players’ situation. Gaming, like politics and weather, is local. If you want to game and all the crew local to you only plays X, you realistically don’t have a lot of options.

If you are playing 2-3 times a year, just use wahapedia.

You have to buy the Codices, and the sub-Codices, and the Codices of your opponents because how else are you going to prove to yourself and your friends that you're really committed to the "GW Hobby"

Nothing says ” I'm in this” like a neverending subscription to the GW paper factory.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
If you are playing 2-3 times a year, just use wahapedia.

Exactly. Zlibrary is a possibility for some things also… I get a lot of research articles there.

Buy the codex. It's where the bulk of the rules are for your army. Get it second hand, or if you're in a closed group, stay old edition.

Where's the fun in playing you if you don't know your own army rules?

what was the edition 15 years ago?

 Manchild 1984 wrote:
what was the edition 15 years ago?

Fourth edition was 2004 - 2008.

The dataslate updates are, as the name implies, updates. They build upon the codex and are written based on the assumption that you have that codex on hand to refer back to. They will often say things like 'look up the unit x on page y and change paragraph z to read this...' and other such things, and you will need to have the codex (by whatever means you use to get that codex) in order to be able to do that.

As mentioned elsewhere in the thread, there are alternatives you can consider, but the balance patches aren't a substitute.

wahapedia or keep playing 4th ed

The worst part of this is that GW could fix the entire mess of a system.

Codex books could be restructured to include the following:

General Current advancements in Lore.
Faction Advancements in lore.
Black Library Faction Specific Short Stories for current goings on.
Faction Background Information
Character Biographies
Faction Paint Schemes
Painting tips, information, and examples.
Misc Information.

Rules could then be made available in PDF AND App format for a much simpler price, let's say 10 GBP as a base.

With this system, the books would serve as a collectors item for those who want all the extra stuff. The PDF still would make them a literal tanker ship of money each year, and make it far easier to apply fixes, as the PDF can simply be edited and reuploaded along with a note to all subscribed customers that changes have been made.

The people who weren't going to drop 35 GBP on the Codex will instead drop that money on yet more model kits. GW profits either way, and we're not murdering whole forests of old growth trees every two years for books that become practically worthless within one month of publication.

There GW, I give you the idea. You don't need to pay me for it.

Dear Togusa,

Thanks for your interest in the Hobby (TM). We really appreciate when our fans actively engage with us and we thank you for your inputs.

Our IPs are some of the most recognizable in the world. We strive to keep our games just as exciting as our amazing IPs as we continue to inject the very best ideas into our products.

Well, thanks again for letting us know how much you love our worlds. We look forward to seeing your cash, er, you at the Hobby table soon.

Yer Pals, Who now have social media presence and pretend self awareness as we continue to raise our quality and our prices

 privateer4hire wrote:
Dear Togusa,

Thanks for your interest in the Hobby (TM). We really appreciate when our fans actively engage with us and we thank you for your inputs.

Our IPs are some of the most recognizable in the world. We strive to keep our games just as exciting as our amazing IPs as we continue to inject the very best ideas into our products.

Well, thanks again for letting us know how much you love our worlds. We look forward to seeing your cash, er, you at the Hobby table soon.

Yer Pals, Who now have social media presence and pretend self awareness as we continue to raise our quality and our prices

Pretty much, but I am willing to bet I am right and that they're actually losing potential income with the Codex/Battletome format.

I think your idea is awesome, actually. But these guys would monetize anything, and at unrealistic levels, given the chance. People pay for the books and so they print them, warts and all, knowing that newbies won't know any better and repeat players will just accept it as a part of the system.

I was being sarcastic previously, but this is pretty much it.

 privateer4hire wrote:
People pay for the books and so they print them, warts and all, knowing that newbies won't know any better and repeat players will just accept it as a part of the system.

My additional suggestion is that GW views books as a feature not a bug

For a while GW was taking pains to call itself a miniatures company. Most minis companies treat rulebooks like loss leaders that exist to sell miniatures. However, GW has cracked the code and realized that they can also turn publishing into a very solid income stream. The growth of BL over the past 2 decades has been a thing to behold but the growing tide of printed game material is much more interesting from a business perspective. They've managed to raise the price per book and increase the number of books required for the 40k gamer to stay truly competitive.

All this and they've not seemed to lose many customers. My personal theory is that they know the more you spend on GW, the more the sunk costs themselves will actually help keep you in "The GW Hobby” and books are an increasing part of that. Every additional book purchased makes it harder to leave.

Put another way, if GW was cheap and you only needed one book it would be easier to walk away. The high prices and required book purchases may actually be a significant help in retaining customers Very clever.

However, as to the OPs question. If you want to play, buy the codex. It won't actually be outdated in a few weeks. It will be slightly incomplete, but FAQs and such are "just the way it is now" and should be expected for any GW player.

Excellent points about the vested player ploy. They definitely know how to play their base.

 Eilif wrote:

All this and they've not seemed to lose many customers. My personal theory is that they know the more you spend on GW, the more the sunk costs themselves will actually help keep you in "The GW Hobby” and books are an increasing part of that. Every additional book purchased makes it harder to leave.

I actually felt like this when looking at other game systems, until I realized it would cost as much to finish my BTs with the last 1k points of models as it would to get 2x 300pt tournament lists for infinity. I can probably buy an entire Infinity faction for less than my 2k army, SM codex, BT supplement, and Chapter approved cost.