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2022/04/18 16:14:59
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Yes to some armies it is huge. For marines for example. For my termintors, especially paladins gigantic. but a buff to being hit by ap1 fire power on regular sob, or on tanks they do not run, combined with a second or maybe third nerf to sacrosanct does not equal a buff to sisters.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/18 18:14:30
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
The change to bodyguard means neither the robot lady, neither celestine can be run efficiently. That is huge for sisters, because those two are the tougher ones of their characters. And saying that them being bad, but the bad thing getting a little bit worse, is like telling an ork player that maybe his buggies got nerfed, but now he can run more boys, even if he doesn't want to run more buy.
For their points and abilities both Vahl and Celestine don't need bodyguards to shine. In fact I've never seen players using bodyguards for those two characters in 9th.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
bullyboy wrote: The only thing I would say is that Sacresants should probably get a reversal of the points increase they received, especially since this was in relation to the bodyguard ability which has been changed considerably. That would go a long way to making them seem like they took too many hits.
At 16ppm they are cheap enough to be taken in large numbers anyway IMHO.
Celestine used bodyguards all the time. She could be 12" in front of the rest of the army and still not be shot. Vahl didn't need them, though.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ClockworkZion wrote: Sisters probably break even on this. They lose out on some of their AP (like heavy bolters) but gain a slight durability buff.
Time will tell for sure and I think lists may change a bit to compensate but the army doesn't look dead to me.
Then again I have biases based around living through the WD and digital only codexes.
It's like I've been saying, between the positive and the negative, it's a very small change no matter how it swings (I think it swings nerf), which is unfortunate for something that's supposed to be a buff.
so yeah I definitely misinterpreted the rules. so sacresants would have an effective 1+ save against ap-1/-2 only and a 2+ base. So they would pretty much always have a 2+ save besides ap-3. big difference. but the damage and mobility difference the Zephyrim bring I think outweighs this. the sacresants have better strength or damage 2 but the Zephyrim get 1 more attack plus being in something like bloody rose for +1A and ap (marginal). though ap-4 is funnily enough is most optimal against sacresants
So +2 attacks (but only +1 after 1 round), 6" better move, ap increase (more useful as other armies will get AoC) and deepstrike, plus more miracle dice I think beats out better save, bodyguard (which was just dumb and broken mechanically), better strength or damage, and heroic interventions.
not to mentioned I still feel every other unit getting a MASSIVE buff outweighs what was lost. maybe not by a lot but I still think sisters are better. Sure lists would run a lot of sacrosancts but they would also run mortifiers, basic sisters, and retributors, and normal which flat out got a major buff. They now all have a better VH trait while also being able to get bonus from another order.
So ap -1 is equal between VH and AoC. ap-2 is better in VH. but ap-3 and above is far better in AoC so more useful on paragons and mortifiers. plus order buffs
Beat me to it. Yeah honestly I hate the hot takes of recent 40k. 1 overwhelming and abused unit is being nerfed so now the whole army is being useless despite getting army wide buffs. It happened with custodes lol. they got rid of 3+ invulns and got rid of some strats and legit every custodes player was weeping and crying despite getting good point reductions and a ton of free rules. yeah now look. I this is is an overall buff especially with more miracle dice. I don't see in anyway that this is holistically a nerf.
Sure and for that I can give you a counter example of GK. NDKs get nerfed, double brotherhood option gets removed, interceptors get a points hike and you can only run 1 GM in NDK armour. But hey termintors became 2 pts cheaper, so it balances itself out. Yet somehow the army is kind of a gone. Orks the same, annoying buggies get nerfed over and over again, and somehow the boys builds didn't take root amonth the players. Not the mention the entire marine line which was suppose to adapt to entire meta, since like DE codex, yet somehow it never did. Pur magic.
well idk about that. AoC is FAR stronger a buff than terminators getting a 2 point reduction. and with the boys they essentially got nerfed. boys getting get buffed with the T5 but losing mob rules and points increase was a far bit worse. Those examples the whole army was gutted. Sisters one unit in one order is getting nerfed (well regular celestines are nerfed too so 2 units). while literally every other unit in every other order is getting a massive buff, much like custodes and very unlike what happened with GK and Orks. I think people are really underestimating how powerful AoC is considering it's free for most things besides SS users.
Zephyrim do less damage than sacresants against most targets. Maces hit harder against anything T4 or better with 2 wounds (especially if they have good invuls) Halberds do more against anything T3, T5, or T8.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/04/18 18:52:14
2022/04/23 17:11:08
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
ERJAK wrote: As an additional WTF from goonhammer:
Lennon had this to say: "...The Exorcist, Castigator and Rhinos should all continue to be staples. I may even be tempted to paint some Paragons…"
Say whatever you want about my take on the AoC change for Sisters, at least it comes from THIS reality.
The only thing the Castigator has been the staple of is the bargain bin. True story, at adepticon, one of the vendors had a 30% off NO SALES TAX sale on the last day. Every single Sisters of Battle unit was gone almost instantly. They had multiple Castigators left by the time they packed up.
Yeah, I hope that, at some point, the community realizes that even the great tournament players are either spitting hot takes for visibility, or are not as oracular as one would think in their assessments. Nick N. said Ork buggies were fine. Siegler said there were no issues with Tau at release. Now they claim Nids will be to Harlequins what Harlequins were to the field (i.e. S+++ tier) even without Crusher Stampede, and Death Guard are still gonna suck, and SoB are going to be incredible. It's just all really unlikely to me.
In Nick's defense..and I usually crap on his take on orkz, Ork Buggies were fine. Even the zOMG BROKEN OP Squigbuggies weren't bad, its just players didn't like having to lose to orkz so they had to get nerfed hard.
The biggest offending ork buggy was without a doubt the Squigbuggy which has now been nerfed 3 separate times and is literally the worst buggy in the game now. But at its height lets compare it to the recently nerfed Voidweaver. So Squigbuggy PRE nerf compared to POST nerf voidweaver...ready?
PRE NERF Squigbuggy 90pts Post NERF voidweaver 130pts.
Squigbuggy: 2D6 shots at S5 AP-2 2dmg hitting on 4s. Average = 7 shots, 3.5 hits, Against T4 3+ thats 2.3 wounds and 3.06 dmg. If its within 18' range it gets an extra D6 shots but hitting on 5s so 3.5 shots on average for 1.16 hits, 0.77 wounds and 1.02dmg to a T4 3+ save. Grand total of 4.08dmg. So per point that is 22ppd (Points per dmg)
POST Nerf Voidweaver is 3D3 shots at S5 AP-3 1dmg averages out to 6 shots, 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 2.2dmg OR 2 shots 1.33 hits, 1.1 wounds at -4 so 4.4dmg (only good against mutli-wound targets) Then it gets 6 shots at S6 -1 2dmg. So 6 shots, 4 hits, 2.6 wounds (0.66 of them at AP-3) so likely 1.5 wounds go through for 3dmg. Total is 7.4dmg So per point that is 17.56ppd (Points per dmg)
So unbuffed, no re-rolls no strats etc the PRE nerf squigbuggy is noticeably worse than the POST nerf Voidweaver in terms of dmg output.
And before you start calling for buffs to be added, the only meaningful buff the Squigbuggy got was the Kulture buff of +1 to hit which only benefited the 1D6 short range gun AND the speedwaaagh which gave the guns -1AP. So even with those 2 buffs, 1 of which was a once a game buff the other required an enemy unit to die first the squigbuggy, even at short range only increased to 10.5 shots, 5.25 hits, 3.5 wounds and 5.83dmg which was 15.43ppd. Give the voidweaver some of its natural buffs like the re-rolls to hit/wound from Laughing god and its dmg spikes even higher than this. BTW the current Squigbuggy without buffs is 26.9 ppd and 18.8 and only if it is within 18' and it can see its target, otherwise its hitting on 5s and 6s against targets with +1 armor Oh, and against those Marines who are the ideal target for this thing, it lost 1AP so its now even worse than before in that regard as well
***Side Note: The Pre-nerf voidweavers ppd was 12.16ppd
Getting good vs a unit type which isn't and shouldn't be used is hardly something one should consider good.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/23 18:30:01
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Lennon had this to say: "...The Exorcist, Castigator and Rhinos should all continue to be staples. I may even be tempted to paint some Paragons…"
Say whatever you want about my take on the AoC change for Sisters, at least it comes from THIS reality.
The only thing the Castigator has been the staple of is the bargain bin. True story, at adepticon, one of the vendors had a 30% off NO SALES TAX sale on the last day. Every single Sisters of Battle unit was gone almost instantly. They had multiple Castigators left by the time they packed up.
Yeah, I hope that, at some point, the community realizes that even the great tournament players are either spitting hot takes for visibility, or are not as oracular as one would think in their assessments. Nick N. said Ork buggies were fine. Siegler said there were no issues with Tau at release. Now they claim Nids will be to Harlequins what Harlequins were to the field (i.e. S+++ tier) even without Crusher Stampede, and Death Guard are still gonna suck, and SoB are going to be incredible. It's just all really unlikely to me.
In Nick's defense..and I usually crap on his take on orkz, Ork Buggies were fine. Even the zOMG BROKEN OP Squigbuggies weren't bad, its just players didn't like having to lose to orkz so they had to get nerfed hard.
The biggest offending ork buggy was without a doubt the Squigbuggy which has now been nerfed 3 separate times and is literally the worst buggy in the game now. But at its height lets compare it to the recently nerfed Voidweaver. So Squigbuggy PRE nerf compared to POST nerf voidweaver...ready?
PRE NERF Squigbuggy 90pts
Post NERF voidweaver 130pts.
Squigbuggy: 2D6 shots at S5 AP-2 2dmg hitting on 4s. Average = 7 shots, 3.5 hits, Against T4 3+ thats 2.3 wounds and 3.06 dmg. If its within 18' range it gets an extra D6 shots but hitting on 5s so 3.5 shots on average for 1.16 hits, 0.77 wounds and 1.02dmg to a T4 3+ save. Grand total of 4.08dmg. So per point that is 22ppd (Points per dmg)
POST Nerf Voidweaver is 3D3 shots at S5 AP-3 1dmg averages out to 6 shots, 4 hits, 2.6 wounds and 2.2dmg OR 2 shots 1.33 hits, 1.1 wounds at -4 so 4.4dmg (only good against mutli-wound targets) Then it gets 6 shots at S6 -1 2dmg. So 6 shots, 4 hits, 2.6 wounds (0.66 of them at AP-3) so likely 1.5 wounds go through for 3dmg. Total is 7.4dmg So per point that is 17.56ppd (Points per dmg)
So unbuffed, no re-rolls no strats etc the PRE nerf squigbuggy is noticeably worse than the POST nerf Voidweaver in terms of dmg output.
And before you start calling for buffs to be added, the only meaningful buff the Squigbuggy got was the Kulture buff of +1 to hit which only benefited the 1D6 short range gun AND the speedwaaagh which gave the guns -1AP. So even with those 2 buffs, 1 of which was a once a game buff the other required an enemy unit to die first the squigbuggy, even at short range only increased to 10.5 shots, 5.25 hits, 3.5 wounds and 5.83dmg which was 15.43ppd. Give the voidweaver some of its natural buffs like the re-rolls to hit/wound from Laughing god and its dmg spikes even higher than this. BTW the current Squigbuggy without buffs is 26.9 ppd and 18.8 and only if it is within 18' and it can see its target, otherwise its hitting on 5s and 6s against targets with +1 armor Oh, and against those Marines who are the ideal target for this thing, it lost 1AP so its now even worse than before in that regard as well
***Side Note: The Pre-nerf voidweavers ppd was 12.16ppd
Quasistellar wrote: Folks are absolutely postively underrating AoC. It's a huge buff.
For marines, absolutely.
And for sisters as well. 10 Boyz just went from killing 6.6 sisters a turn to 4.4...that is a big deal bud, you just got 1/3rd more durable vs AP-1.
It's interesting that you used possibly the worst possible example you could have here.
1. That still kills the entire squad the majority of the time. The only difference now is that sometimes it DOESN'T and you get to tri-point the last battle sister. So the increased durability is objectively worse. Oh, also if you play OoML and the sister dies to attrition, you don't get a miracle dice.
2. It's also demonstrating how little that durability actually matters, even if it doesn't result in a tri-point. 10 Ork Boyz, not known for their crazy output, still kills that entire unit the majority of the time.
One of the points I brought up in the original post was that the primary effect of AoC is, for the majority of units, your opponent overkilling them by a few less shots. Which is more of less what happened here.
Now, that's not to say there isn't ANY meaningful value in AoC, it just requires a complete shift in the army's listbuilding paradigm. It's not like it is with marines where it just makes the stuff you were already taking better.
To get value out of AoC, we have two primary build categories now. You can either spam as many Novitiates as you're willing to buy and paint and go for a board control obsec skew setup, or you can invest heavily in Zephyrim and build a deathball that is less damaging than the sacresant one, but is faster and just as durable with some character buffs.
Are either of these setups better than VHS30 was? Maybe. Maybe not. We're still waiting on tournament data to find out. The point is, we had to sacrifice our existing strategies to meaningfully benefit from the Balance update, something none of the other AoC factions had to do. That means it's not as cut and dry where we stand after the change as it is for something like Deathguard.
Celestine used bodyguards all the time. She could be 12" in front of the rest of the army and still not be shot. Vahl didn't need them, though.
and that felt right? The bodyguard rule change was super needed, as it was, it made zero sense and was gamey as feth
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Karol wrote: Getting good vs a unit type which isn't and shouldn't be used is hardly something one should consider good.
thats an example -.-
Models that got AoC got better against litterally any attack with ap greater than zero
I've deliberately sidestepped the bodyguard change because I don't really have a problem with it. I also rarely used it unless I desperately needed to (Tau).
For the second point, that's not actually true in practice. Example: You fire a 10 man terminator squad at a unit of 5 retributors. 10 Terminators worth of stormbolters kills 8 battle sisters (assuming no rerolls). With AoC it kills 5.9 battle sisters. Either way, that whole unit is still dead.
While yes, units are technically more durable against all attacks, that only matters in a practical sense if more models survive than would have otherwise.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/23 18:44:33
2022/04/23 18:51:01
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
90pts of Orkz, will kill 4.4 Sisters on average now. thats 48.4pts Yeah, a unit that is only good in 1 phase of the game kills slightly more than HALF its cost in CC... Its almost like...a unit that is only good in one phase of the game and is TWICE THE POINTS of the other squad should almost wipe it out completely.
OMG did you know that a 120pt Retributor squad with Ministorum heavy flamers and 2 cherubs can kill 216pts of Orkz in a mob of 30 in a single shooting phase! OMG! T5 does nothing for Orkz, its a nerf in reality!
10 termintors better kill a squad of retributors, considering it costs 400pts with no upgrades.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/23 19:50:46
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
The argument regarding a net buff/ nerf should really be taken in context of the proportion of opponents that a sister player has, that also benifits from the changes to power armour. I haven't thought about it enough to make a determination, but if it proportionatly improved ves marines, more than sisters, a d all you play against is marines, then it's going to be a net loss.
2022/04/23 20:59:42
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Plant wrote: The argument regarding a net buff/ nerf should really be taken in context of the proportion of opponents that a sister player has, that also benifits from the changes to power armour. I haven't thought about it enough to make a determination, but if it proportionatly improved ves marines, more than sisters, a d all you play against is marines, then it's going to be a net loss.
On the contrary, you never know what someone's local meta or playerbase looks like, so any buff/nerf needs to be taken in complete isolation. Its no good allowing the Sisters player the town over to hit 80% WR while you struggle at 30% (to be hyperbolic) because of a global change.
2022/04/23 21:10:24
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Plant wrote: The argument regarding a net buff/ nerf should really be taken in context of the proportion of opponents that a sister player has, that also benifits from the changes to power armour. I haven't thought about it enough to make a determination, but if it proportionatly improved ves marines, more than sisters, a d all you play against is marines, then it's going to be a net loss.
On the contrary, you never know what someone's local meta or playerbase looks like, so any buff/nerf needs to be taken in complete isolation. Its no good allowing the Sisters player the town over to hit 80% WR while you struggle at 30% (to be hyperbolic) because of a global change.
If one SoB can achieve 80% & you can only manage 30%? Then maybe you should ask them for some advice....
2022/04/23 22:04:16
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
If someone had a consisten 80% win rate with any army, before asking for tactics or tips, I would firt ask where he bought his dice.
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/24 00:11:06
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
For the second point, that's not actually true in practice. Example: You fire a 10 man terminator squad at a unit of 5 retributors. 10 Terminators worth of stormbolters kills 8 battle sisters (assuming no rerolls). With AoC it kills 5.9 battle sisters. Either way, that whole unit is still dead.
While yes, units are technically more durable against all attacks, that only matters in a practical sense if more models survive than would have otherwise.
"oh no, my 100pts unit gets wiped by a 400pts unit even after the buffs!!"
2022/04/24 00:54:19
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
90pts of Orkz, will kill 4.4 Sisters on average now. thats 48.4pts Yeah, a unit that is only good in 1 phase of the game kills slightly more than HALF its cost in CC... Its almost like...a unit that is only good in one phase of the game and is TWICE THE POINTS of the other squad should almost wipe it out completely.
OMG did you know that a 120pt Retributor squad with Ministorum heavy flamers and 2 cherubs can kill 216pts of Orkz in a mob of 30 in a single shooting phase! OMG! T5 does nothing for Orkz, its a nerf in reality!
Woohoo there's a strawman comparison. An unit you build you army around can kill a squad of basic troops!
Also, lets be real. It kill 55 points of sisters to pretend otherwise would be like saying 8th edition Goffs made green tide lists better and moar killy.
SemperMortis wrote: OMG did you know that a 120pt Retributor squad with Ministorum heavy flamers and 2 cherubs can kill 216pts of Orkz in a mob of 30 in a single shooting phase! OMG! T5 does nothing for Orkz, its a nerf in reality!
A few things wrong here:
- 1) No-one is taking flamers on Retributors, they're the only good ranged AT sisters have and will basically always have multi-meltas.
- 2) GW removed the ability to use 2 cherubs in the same turn.
2022/04/24 01:24:47
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
SemperMortis wrote: OMG did you know that a 120pt Retributor squad with Ministorum heavy flamers and 2 cherubs can kill 216pts of Orkz in a mob of 30 in a single shooting phase! OMG! T5 does nothing for Orkz, its a nerf in reality!
A few things wrong here:
- 1) No-one is taking flamers on Retributors, they're the only good ranged AT sisters have and will basically always have multi-meltas.
- 2) GW removed the ability to use 2 cherubs in the same turn.
EC can still clear a squad with strats and they do take HF Rets
Jarms and Lammia...you guys both missed the point you realize right?
Complaining that a BUFF which makes you better is a nerf because...reasons is silly. and Complaining that a MELEE focused unit that costs 2x as much kills you in melee is...well stupid. The flamer comment is just to point out that other units that focus on something else, in this case ranged combat, can do the same thing, or in this case a lot more and to say a buff is a nerf because it doesn't work as much as we want in the example given is disingenuous in the extreme.
SemperMortis wrote: Jarms and Lammia...you guys both missed the point you realize right?
Complaining that a BUFF which makes you better is a nerf because...reasons is silly. and Complaining that a MELEE focused unit that costs 2x as much kills you in melee is...well stupid. The flamer comment is just to point out that other units that focus on something else, in this case ranged combat, can do the same thing, or in this case a lot more and to say a buff is a nerf because it doesn't work as much as we want in the example given is disingenuous in the extreme.
You've missed the reasons though.
The BUFF use to effect a unit and now doesn't effect that unit. That is a direct nerf that unit.
There is no other unit in the Codex that benefits from that buff to change it's combat maths to allow it to fill the role that the nerfed unit does.
Mortifiers, Zephyrims, and Paragons all got AoC. Which you could lean into for melee if you feel Celestian Sacresants aren’t viable anymore.
Mortifiers, especially if you take the 3+ save upgrade, gets a 5+ save against AP-3 and a 5+++. Which is pretty nice. 5 attacks, and a 75% chance to hit on the first round of combat is pretty good too.
While I do agree Sacresants got an indirect nerf I don’t think it’s as bad as other storm shield options. Marine players have to pay for those with additional points and lose out on AoC. At least with Sacresants it’s inbuilt into the profile.
2022/04/24 07:06:59
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Plant wrote: The argument regarding a net buff/ nerf should really be taken in context of the proportion of opponents that a sister player has, that also benifits from the changes to power armour. I haven't thought about it enough to make a determination, but if it proportionatly improved ves marines, more than sisters, a d all you play against is marines, then it's going to be a net loss.
On the contrary, you never know what someone's local meta or playerbase looks like, so any buff/nerf needs to be taken in complete isolation. Its no good allowing the Sisters player the town over to hit 80% WR while you struggle at 30% (to be hyperbolic) because of a global change.
If one SoB can achieve 80% & you can only manage 30%? Then maybe you should ask them for some advice....
Christ it was a random figure plucked out of thin air to try and show that "taking your opponents into account" isn't a fair way of trying to manage buff/nerfs. If they're getting 80% because they randomly only play people who used ap1 weapons previously means the "net buff" is too much so it needs taking back out. If the 30% player exclusively plays people who spam ap- or brand new meta armies with against their casual list, that would suggest AoC isn't strong enough. You can't just decide to alter an army on what they match against.
2022/04/24 07:22:32
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
Jarms48 wrote: Mortifiers, Zephyrims, and Paragons all got AoC. Which you could lean into for melee if you feel Celestian Sacresants aren’t viable anymore.
Mortifiers, especially if you take the 3+ save upgrade, gets a 5+ save against AP-3 and a 5+++. Which is pretty nice. 5 attacks, and a 75% chance to hit on the first round of combat is pretty good too.
While I do agree Sacresants got an indirect nerf I don’t think it’s as bad as other storm shield options. Marine players have to pay for those with additional points and lose out on AoC. At least with Sacresants it’s inbuilt into the profile.
Sacs are still more viable than any if those units in most lists...
What is missing from the OP analysis, is the reason why the Sororitas meta became focused on VH Sacs.
The reason for this is that for a while now we have been plagued by a meta which goes strong on AP-1 and indirect fire, which makes a mess of any other kind of sister.
Before that meta, the name of the sisters was "Trading".
The meta that will now follow will be much lighter on AP -1 sources, and will have almost no indirect fire.
This means that there is no more need for sisters to be VH sac centered.
2022/04/24 14:16:31
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
SemperMortis wrote: Jarms and Lammia...you guys both missed the point you realize right?
Complaining that a BUFF which makes you better is a nerf because...reasons is silly. and Complaining that a MELEE focused unit that costs 2x as much kills you in melee is...well stupid. The flamer comment is just to point out that other units that focus on something else, in this case ranged combat, can do the same thing, or in this case a lot more and to say a buff is a nerf because it doesn't work as much as we want in the example given is disingenuous in the extreme.
A supposed buff, that also affects other armies, and which they can use a lot more efficiently when combined with nerfs, multiple now since codex being out, to core units is a nerf. If GW decides to nerf 2-3 options form any codex, and then drop 1-2pts of a unit which is bad doesn't somehow make the 1-2pts change a good one. Unless the unit litterally cost 1-2pts per model and now someone can take an as many as you have free slots number of chaff units .
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain.
2022/04/24 15:32:17
Subject: Armor of Contempt is an overall nerf for Sister's of Battle.
SemperMortis wrote: Jarms and Lammia...you guys both missed the point you realize right?
Complaining that a BUFF which makes you better is a nerf because...reasons is silly. and Complaining that a MELEE focused unit that costs 2x as much kills you in melee is...well stupid. The flamer comment is just to point out that other units that focus on something else, in this case ranged combat, can do the same thing, or in this case a lot more and to say a buff is a nerf because it doesn't work as much as we want in the example given is disingenuous in the extreme.
A supposed buff, that also affects other armies, and which they can use a lot more efficiently when combined with nerfs, multiple now since codex being out, to core units is a nerf. If GW decides to nerf 2-3 options form any codex, and then drop 1-2pts of a unit which is bad doesn't somehow make the 1-2pts change a good one. Unless the unit litterally cost 1-2pts per model and now someone can take an as many as you have free slots number of chaff units .
This was a buff, it buffed the vast majority of the SoB codex, it screwed over 1 unit which was in competitive builds. But that doesn't mean that the other 95% of the codex didn't just receive a very significant and FREE buff.
If my codex got functionally +1 armor across the board for free, but it didn't give it to Meganobz I wouldn't give a damn, it would still be a buff. I get the upset, especially for players who were leaning into that build, but it doesn't change the fact that for the VAST majority of the codex its a good thing.
I just wonder how bad the outcry would have been if Codex: Space Marine had Armor of Contempt from the start.
Certainly, one can coulda, woulda, shoulda the lethality of 9th (or better design codices) or that codex release window be much smaller. Despite the rules bloat, I am much happier having Armor of Contempt, than points knocked off of my marine units. I'm already fielding 12ppm CSM which is kinda sad and pathetic to me. As a rule of thumb, I like basic marines to be at least 3 times the points of a basic guardsmen. That feels like good minimum distance to fit everything else that's between them.
Oh, and against those Marines who are the ideal target for this thing, it lost 1AP so its now even worse than before in that regard as well 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 