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How do bolters work 40k?

They are bipropellant shells. A small cased charge pushes the shell out of the barrel, and then a rocket motor kicks in to accelerate the round to the target. The most common rounds are described as being “mass reactive” in that if they detect a sudden increase in mass nearby they explode. This is most commonly described as enabling them to penetrate a target and then explode from inside. There are a range of other potential warheads for bolters.

Closest modern equivalents are the old Gyrojet experimental weapons from the 1960s, mixed with a bit of OICW, Neopup, XM25 and fragmentation shotgun shells.

And here I though the correct answer was "poorly".

Space magic.

They don't need space magic. Bolters, and most importantly bolt ammunition, could be manufactured now. There is just no need to do so. I guess the wacky silenced bolt round that relies on compressed gas, rather than a rocket for propulsion... that's probably space magic, but otherwise they could be done now.

They actually use plot reactive explosives, the more vital they are to the plot the stronger the charge inside becomes. Thus orks that are able to tank 5 bolter shots can suddenly be eviscerated by a single center of mass shot.

Difficult to eviscerate a humanoid without a centre-mass shot Unless orks have their giblets in their arms.

 Flinty wrote:
Difficult to eviscerate a humanoid without a centre-mass shot Unless orks have their giblets in their arms.

I mean, they have a good majority of their organs essentially replaced by decentralized pockets of fungus goop, so they might have some in their arms.
How durable orks are to bolters in all descriptions to how durable they are in action scenes is perplexing though.

Point at alien, pull trigger, alien dies.

 Gert wrote:
Point at alien, pull trigger, alien dies.

I'm guessing that's why the Ecclesiarchy uses Flamers then? Bolt shells don't kill heretics or other humans?

It’s also worth noting they’re the weapon of choice for Astartes for a reason.

Terror.

Mass Reactive rounds are horrible thing.

Consider. Regardless of calibre (calibre?) bore etc, which are things I really don’t comprehend at all, due to never having tried to learn it?

If I shoot you with a conventional round, and get you with a relative fleshwound, such as nicking your arm, or a round of sufficiently high velocity it does the old in’n’out without causing hydraulic shock (forcing your blood the wrong way round the system), it’s gonna hurt, but such relative flesh wounds are survivable, even with relatively basic first aid (perhaps not the in’n’out, as I suspect TV lies to me about that) you should be OK.

Mass Reactive? If I make you Forrest Gump, and shoot you in the But-Tock? Say goodbye to your pelvis, your junk, maybe your legs and digestive tract as well.

Seeing your squad mate hit square with a conventional round and die is horrifying enough (I’d imagine. I’m aware of my own ignorance here, and that we have military veterans. Genuine and sincere apologies in advance if I’m making too much light of serious matters). But to see them hit square in the chest, and then see their whole chest cavity erupt from the explosion? There goes your nerve. Straight gone. Arguably more so when it’s aforementioned ‘should’ve been a flesh wound, but now a not insignificant part of Dave is a dissipating red mist” glancing hits.

Astartes aren’t just there to kill. They’re there to utterly shatter the enemies resolve. Not only are your mates detonating around you? But the Astartes aren’t even trying to hide or blend in. And they Just. Keep. Coming. You just got one square between the visor? His helmet most likely protected him.

Even more powerful weapons can tear or blast an Astartes limb off, but between their enhanced biology and their advanced armour pumping meds and stems? There’s a pretty excellent chance he’s far from out for the count.

This is also why Chain weapons are standard Astartes kit. They’re weapons of abject terror. They seem wildly impractical to us, but with a bit of Space Magic to make them practical? Oh my god they are hideous when put to their purposefully bloody purpose. Just like a Bolt Round, even a glancing hit will put many things down - and keep them down. A solid hit is just further psychological damage.

 carldooley wrote:

I'm guessing that's why the Ecclesiarchy uses Flamers then? Bolt shells don't kill heretics or other humans?

100% accurate.

Well said, Mad Doc!

Also worth noting: I've yet to see a video-game adaptation of 40k that doesn't just treat them like weird blocky assault rifles...

And then, as far as rules, it's kind of funny that an "Autogun" (basically a modern-day assault rifle) is str 3, and a bolter, which is... well, this crazy mini rocket thing... str 4. Based on the fluff, I'd say that it should be like str 6 easy!

(But, of course, if we get down that rabbit hole... well, the whole GAME starts to come apart!)

leerm02 wrote:
Well said, Mad Doc!

Also worth noting: I've yet to see a video-game adaptation of 40k that doesn't just treat them like weird blocky assault rifles...

And then, as far as rules, it's kind of funny that an "Autogun" (basically a modern-day assault rifle) is str 3, and a bolter, which is... well, this crazy mini rocket thing... str 4. Based on the fluff, I'd say that it should be like str 6 easy!

(But, of course, if we get down that rabbit hole... well, the whole GAME starts to come apart!)

Space Marine did a solid job, if memory serves the orks did explode with a satisfyingly sizable cloud of gore. Unless I'm entirely mistaken, there was even an ever so slight delay before the blast as the round embedded itself.

That’s the stuff I’m talking about, orks regularly tank bolter rounds center of mass, I’m convinced that the orks in space marine were captured guardsmen painted green.

Well as with all video games, the harder the difficulty the more "accurate" the gameplay. Ork Boyz might die to one chest shot on Easy but Hard takes multiple chest shots or multiple blows from the Combat Knife.

leerm02 wrote:
Well said, Mad Doc!

Also worth noting: I've yet to see a video-game adaptation of 40k that doesn't just treat them like weird blocky assault rifles...

And then, as far as rules, it's kind of funny that an "Autogun" (basically a modern-day assault rifle) is str 3, and a bolter, which is... well, this crazy mini rocket thing... str 4. Based on the fluff, I'd say that it should be like str 6 easy!

(But, of course, if we get down that rabbit hole... well, the whole GAME starts to come apart!)

In terms of Video Games?

Think VATS triggered Crits in Fallout 4 (the only Fallout game I’ve ever played for reference). Except making someone’s bonce go pop or ripping off a limb is pretty much every hit, glancing or full square.

I’m personally not aware of any RTS to include anything akin to battleshock/break tests. But if there is one, I’d imagine Bolt weapons would raise the enemy’s associated stat bar super high, super quickly.

As I said, it’s an awful thing to lose someone emotionally or geographically close to you at the best of times. Even with the unavoidable butcher’s bill of battle/outright war? Bolters are exactly the sort of weapon to make even the most naturally stoic of folk shout “well there’s no need for that!”

Again, genuine and sincere apologies to actual military veterans of Dakka. I make light of the setting, not the genuine horrors of war. If I’ve crossed a line? That’s solely your line to determine, and you Will Smith my Chris Rock should we ever meet in person.

Because trauma is not funny. Ever.

RTS's often feature morale mechanics, like Dawn of War where you could force enemy infantry to flee by spamming flamers everywhere.

Boltguns, as a faction's main basic gun, sadly didn't have any extra effect on that.

Wasn't there also an old bit of fluff about how even the SOUND of the bolter firing would damage/destroy normal eardrums and so the versions used by un-modified people (SoB and such) had the equivalent of a built-in silencer? (that only took them back down to "very loud" as opposed to "ridiculously loud").

I may be thinking of fluff somewhere around the 3rd edition, because that's honestly when I spent the most time reading up on the lore...

Fire Warrior actually depicted bolters as more like mini-rocket launchers than assault rifles. It was kinda cool. Terrible game though.

Wasn't there something in the fluff about Great Crusade era Marines switching from Volkite to bolters to deal with Orks? I could have sworn I read something to the effect of high-explosive bolts working a lot better than high-energy death rays.

Anyways, I see where MDG is coming from re: shock and awe but I'm not sure I agree. That's not much use against foes like Tyranids, Orks, or Daemons (although the high caliber and explosive potential are very directly applicable), and against regular humans, smaller calibers would allow the carrying of a lot more ammo and putting it downrange at a higher rate, while still getting the job done. Not to get too graphic, but whether it's a flattening Minie ball, fragmenting .303, or yawing 5.56, the rifle cartridges that militaries have adopted have generally been ones that do a lot of damage to the body with even glancing hits. In-and-out holes (aka icepicking) are a thing but more the exception than the rule.

I always figured that's why Guardsmen are armed with essentially modern rifle analogues; they're primarily around to put down rebellions, meaning fighting other humans, so they have weapons optimized for that job. Meanwhile, Marines have a much more diverse set of threats, and less access to organic fire support, so have to be armed accordingly. I'd expect Marines optimized for fighting humans to look something like MACV-SOG in Vietnam- compact, small-caliber weapons so they can stay mobile, but with as much ammo as they can possibly carry to make up for lack of numbers.

But hey, this is 40K, rule of cool through and through.

True that certain modern foes, and Orks, aren’t going to impacted by the psychology aspect. But a wound from a Bolter is still going to be serious enough to incapacitate, especially compared to modern weapons.

Sure, blowing off an Ork’s leg is far from guaranteed to kill it, but it can still take the Ork out of the immediate fight.

And that’s what Astartes need, given their strike hard, strike fast, strike wherever we’re needed rapid warfare.

 catbarf wrote:
[snipped]
I always figured that's why Guardsmen are armed with essentially modern rifle analogues; they're primarily around to put down rebellions, meaning fighting other humans, so they have weapons optimized for that job. Meanwhile, Marines have a much more diverse set of threats, and less access to organic fire support, so have to be armed accordingly. I'd expect Marines optimized for fighting humans to look something like MACV-SOG in Vietnam- compact, small-caliber weapons so they can stay mobile, but with as much ammo as they can possibly carry to make up for lack of numbers.
.

I thin I get your point though, but I think comparison to real world analogues can only get us so far. Marines have power armour and are genetically modified monsters, so staying mobile is easier even with heavy load-outs. They are supposed to be supernaturally accurate and have autosenses to reduce the benefits of cover, so they don't need the same level of ammo usage to get effective results compared to Vietnam. Finally, their assaults are supposed to be lightning quick, so again reducing the need for a huge ammo count. Even against humans, standard bolters will do the job and then some.

This kind of talk tends to lead back around to, why do they not all have multi-lasers powered from the armour's fusion plant

 Flinty wrote:


This kind of talk tends to lead back around to, why do they not all have multi-lasers powered from the armour's fusion plant

Or at least a backup sidearm / digital weapon powered in that way...

But I guess the answer to these things is ultimately "that's not what they have the STCs for"

 Stux wrote:

 Flinty wrote:


This kind of talk tends to lead back around to, why do they not all have multi-lasers powered from the armour's fusion plant

Or at least a backup sidearm / digital weapon powered in that way...

But I guess the answer to these things is ultimately "that's not what they have the STCs for"

Traditioooooooon, Tradition!

The Bolter is Holy. They use Bolters, because that’s how The Emperor equipped them. And it’s what the Codex Astartes requires.

Never mind the rush bodge job of the Astartes project. It’s tradition now.

People seem to overlook the time aspect in games. While it may take an hour for us to resolve a game round IRL, in universe it is seconds .
Maybe people might remember this better if the default movement was a couple inches less.

 carldooley wrote:
People seem to overlook the time aspect in games. While it may take an hour for us to resolve a game round IRL, in universe it is seconds .
Maybe people might remember this better if the default movement was a couple inches less.

Partly overlooked and partly ignored because trying to fit 40K's gameplay into a coherent ground/time scale is the path of madness.

If you take it 'literally', you get company commanders issuing contradictory orders every few seconds, troops that (at least in older editions) would break and flee in terror for a few seconds before suddenly regaining their composure, supersonic aircraft that move at a sedate 20-30MPH, and assault rifles with an effective range of about 25 yards.

For the OP: check out this for someone's imaginings of how a bolter works and what it could do.

https://philipsibbering.com/warhammer/40k/space-marines/bolters/

 catbarf wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
People seem to overlook the time aspect in games. While it may take an hour for us to resolve a game round IRL, in universe it is seconds .
Maybe people might remember this better if the default movement was a couple inches less.

Partly overlooked and partly ignored because trying to fit 40K's gameplay into a coherent ground/time scale is the path of madness.

If you take it 'literally', you get company commanders issuing contradictory orders every few seconds happens IRL, troops that (at least in older editions) would break and flee in terror for a few seconds before suddenly regaining their composure happens IRL, supersonic aircraft that move at a sedate 20-30MPH this is why I tried converting Valkyries and Vendettas to Helocopters when I played them in 7th, and assault rifles with an effective range of about 25 yards. hmm, granted

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Flinty wrote:


This kind of talk tends to lead back around to, why do they not all have multi-lasers powered from the armour's fusion plant

Or at least a backup sidearm / digital weapon powered in that way...

But I guess the answer to these things is ultimately "that's not what they have the STCs for"

Traditioooooooon, Tradition!

The Bolter is Holy. They use Bolters, because that’s how The Emperor equipped them. And it’s what the Codex Astartes requires.

Never mind the rush bodge job of the Astartes project. It’s tradition now.

What day and night must kill those fething xenos
Crack apart their torsos, praise the holy god lord
And what has the might, as fist of the chapter
To blast apart heretics
The bolteeeeer, the bolter, tradtion
The bolteeeeeer, the bolter, tradition!

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Flinty wrote:


This kind of talk tends to lead back around to, why do they not all have multi-lasers powered from the armour's fusion plant

Or at least a backup sidearm / digital weapon powered in that way...

But I guess the answer to these things is ultimately "that's not what they have the STCs for"

Traditioooooooon, Tradition!

The Bolter is Holy. They use Bolters, because that’s how The Emperor equipped them. And it’s what the Codex Astartes requires.

Never mind the rush bodge job of the Astartes project. It’s tradition now.

What day and night must kill those fething xenos
Crack apart their torsos, praise the holy god lord
And what has the might, as fist of the chapter
To blast apart heretics
The bolteeeeer, the bolter, tradtion
The bolteeeeeer, the bolter, tradition!

What we use this way to make a proper corpse,
A quiet corpse, a strewn-up corpse?
What we raise with family and friends at home,
So Chaplain's free to read the holy books?

The Bolteeeer, the Bolter! Tradition!
The Bolteeeer, the Bolter! Tradition!