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So recently, I’ve been on a bit of a crazy stl binge.
Buying up stl’s for Blood Bowl Team, Necromunda Gang alternates (And a Krieg army, Robot Tyranids, And all the Primarchs for 30k too!), as there is just so many cool bits out there and it comes out so quick all this stuff.
All this despite me not even having a 3D printer (and on that if there is anyone in the UK who wants to print me some stuff in exchange for copies of some sweet stl’s, hit me up ).

So the question is, how much does everyone else use alternate stuff in their games and do you find yourself getting more when it’s as easy as grabbing a file set.
I have like every gang and most teams now for those games, whether I’ll get round to painting that many who knows.

Obviously fro playing in GW stores and things, this is out.
I can’t think of any FLGS that wouldn’t allow alternates or proxies etc. Though I guess it may differ where others are.

Necromunda is the game I use most of my 3d printing in (I don't play Blood Bowl), I think it fits well because of the number of models in the game is still quite limited, there are some good alternatives for weapons/arms or entire model ranges that work well.

Despite what a lot of 3D printing enthusiasts would have you believe its still a lot of work, especially with resin printing, getting the settings correct that may have to change next bottle of resin, toxic chemicals and fumes, clean-up/curing of models, screen wear out. The screen on my first printer has just worn out and now looking at a new 4K/8K printer. 3D printing still has a lone way to go before its simple user friendly.

Generally I use mine for either one large centre piece model or those games with smaller model counts like Necromunda, The effort required to do something like a 40k/Aos Army would be far too much.

Danny76 wrote:

Obviously fro playing in GW stores and things, this is out.
I can’t think of any FLGS that wouldn’t allow alternates or proxies etc. Though I guess it may differ where others are.

I find it depends, of the two FLGS "close" to me (45+ min journey) one is happy with 3D printed/proxies but they also charge a table fee to play, the other has free table play but can only use models that are either totally OOP or that the store can order. Their view is that they are paying for the retail space and offering it up free to play so they get the chance that someone sees something they like on a table and finds that they can order it in store they may make a sale. I understand both points of view at the end of the day the store must make a profit or close down.

Those are pretty fair policies. I honestly think in this age more stores should consider requiring a fee if you're not buying from the store to use tables.

I suspect they're more okay with 3D printed terrain than miniatures, which is what I'm printing and designing.

In terms of alternatives, Sector Fatalis from Dragon's Rest is a good comprehensive set that's compatible with Zone Mortalis.

I have a large digital pile of shame. I try to stick to sets that I’ll Definately print, or that are cheap enough that it doesn’t matter if I don’t print everything. My pile of unpainted printed stuff is also getting pretty large at this point… much easier to set up a bed than to paint the results

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Necromunda is the game I use most of my 3d printing in (I don't play Blood Bowl), I think it fits well because of the number of models in the game is still quite limited, there are some good alternatives for weapons/arms or entire model ranges that work well.

Despite what a lot of 3D printing enthusiasts would have you believe its still a lot of work, especially with resin printing, getting the settings correct that may have to change next bottle of resin, toxic chemicals and fumes, clean-up/curing of models, screen wear out. The screen on my first printer has just worn out and now looking at a new 4K/8K printer. 3D printing still has a lone way to go before its simple user friendly.

Generally I use mine for either one large centre piece model or those games with smaller model counts like Necromunda, The effort required to do something like a 40k/Aos Army would be far too much.

Yes, getting into resin printing is definitely not as trivial as some would have you believe. My settings are pretty dialled in now, but it took a few months of experimentation to get it spot on, and you're absolutely right about the safety aspect. I switched to plant-based resin which is supposedly somewhat less toxic - it definitely smells less, thankfully! And my god, replacing FEPs sucks. Worth it in the end though IMO, the quality is just phenomenal now with entry-level printers.

BTW - the screen is considered a consumable part, given UV light damages the LCD eventually (and the risk of accidental damage/resin leaks) - you should be able to replace it pretty cheaply without needing to replace the whole printer. I swapped my 1st one out on my mars 2 easily enough after I accidentally damaged it. Of course, it's also an opportunity to upgrade...

Mostly, I use it as a much cheaper version of shapeways - 3d printing different parts for plastic models as I need. Getting scaling right is the main issue (I've learned to do test prints to see if they fit!) but it's really, really nice to have a very cheap source of custom bits on demand, and there's a *lot* of designs available. Plus it's conversions rather than proxies, which can be a bit easier with FLGS. I've finally started putting together my calth/prospero marines in prep for heresy 2.0, and I've 3d printed new-scale legs, chainaxes and some heads etc so they'll fit in with the new mark 6 scale.

For whole models, I've mainly done stuff for board games - heroquest replacements, blackstone fortress additional variety etc. If I was playing bloodbowl or necromunda, I can definitely see myself printing them - for necromunda probably bits/arms rather than whole models as I mostly like the current sculpts, but would want to add additional customisation. There are definitely some nice teams for bloodbowl that would be straightforward to just print and avoid duplicates.

In the end, I can print much faster than I can paint, so I have to restrain myself from overdoing it! I will 3d print that mech-nid army some day though...

 arkhanist wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Necromunda is the game I use most of my 3d printing in (I don't play Blood Bowl), I think it fits well because of the number of models in the game is still quite limited, there are some good alternatives for weapons/arms or entire model ranges that work well.

Despite what a lot of 3D printing enthusiasts would have you believe its still a lot of work, especially with resin printing, getting the settings correct that may have to change next bottle of resin, toxic chemicals and fumes, clean-up/curing of models, screen wear out. The screen on my first printer has just worn out and now looking at a new 4K/8K printer. 3D printing still has a lone way to go before its simple user friendly.

Generally I use mine for either one large centre piece model or those games with smaller model counts like Necromunda, The effort required to do something like a 40k/Aos Army would be far too much.

Yes, getting into resin printing is definitely not as trivial as some would have you believe. My settings are pretty dialled in now, but it took a few months of experimentation to get it spot on, and you're absolutely right about the safety aspect. I switched to plant-based resin which is supposedly somewhat less toxic - it definitely smells less, thankfully! And my god, replacing FEPs sucks. Worth it in the end though IMO, the quality is just phenomenal now with entry-level printers.

BTW - the screen is considered a consumable part, given UV light damages the LCD eventually (and the risk of accidental damage/resin leaks) - you should be able to replace it pretty cheaply without needing to replace the whole printer. I swapped my 1st one out on my mars 2 easily enough after I accidentally damaged it. Of course, it's also an opportunity to upgrade...

Mostly, I use it as a much cheaper version of shapeways - 3d printing different parts for plastic models as I need. Getting scaling right is the main issue (I've learned to do test prints to see if they fit!) but it's really, really nice to have a very cheap source of custom bits on demand, and there's a *lot* of designs available. Plus it's conversions rather than proxies, which can be a bit easier with FLGS. I've finally started putting together my calth/prospero marines in prep for heresy 2.0, and I've 3d printed new-scale legs, chainaxes and some heads etc so they'll fit in with the new mark 6 scale.

For whole models, I've mainly done stuff for board games - heroquest replacements, blackstone fortress additional variety etc. If I was playing bloodbowl or necromunda, I can definitely see myself printing them - for necromunda probably bits/arms rather than whole models as I mostly like the current sculpts, but would want to add additional customisation. There are definitely some nice teams for bloodbowl that would be straightforward to just print and avoid duplicates.

In the end, I can print much faster than I can paint, so I have to restrain myself from overdoing it! I will 3d print that mech-nid army some day though...

Yeah it’s certainly not a quick and easy investment cost/time/skill wise.

Mixing in bits seems almost their best use yeah.
But yeah some stuff is almost too cool not to just use the whole lot. Blood Bowl Teams being one, and the Iron Hive Tyranids for sure (hence me having nearly the whole army’s worth of files for them )

Danny76 wrote:


Yeah it’s certainly not a quick and easy investment cost/time/skill wise.

Mixing in bits seems almost their best use yeah.
But yeah some stuff is almost too cool not to just use the whole lot. Blood Bowl Teams being one, and the Iron Hive Tyranids for sure (hence me having nearly the whole army’s worth of files for them )

Imperial Guard is another area where you could do a lovely whole army. Off the top of my head, reptillian overlords spacenam or TMC feudal guard are both ones I'd like to do, TMC's valour corps is very popular and I have also have a soft spot for Red Maker's Ice Warriors. And all three do more IG vehicles than you can shake a stick at. Too many nice models, not enough time...

Yeah I’ve gotten the Krieg-alikes from them now.
Valour Corps. They are really cool looking too

 arkhanist wrote:

BTW - the screen is considered a consumable part, given UV light damages the LCD eventually (and the risk of accidental damage/resin leaks) - you should be able to replace it pretty cheaply without needing to replace the whole printer. I swapped my 1st one out on my mars 2 easily enough after I accidentally damaged it. Of course, it's also an opportunity to upgrade...

Yeah my printer is an original Mars, taking the screen wear out as an opportunity (excuse) to upgrade to a Mars 3, while the mars still gives lovely prints having seen a friends Mars 3 do the same print the difference is noticeable.

MaleficentRuler wrote:

 arkhanist wrote:

BTW - the screen is considered a consumable part, given UV light damages the LCD eventually (and the risk of accidental damage/resin leaks) - you should be able to replace it pretty cheaply without needing to replace the whole printer. I swapped my 1st one out on my mars 2 easily enough after I accidentally damaged it. Of course, it's also an opportunity to upgrade...

Yeah my printer is an original Mars, taking the screen wear out as an opportunity (excuse) to upgrade to a Mars 3, while the mars still gives lovely prints having seen a friends Mars 3 do the same print the difference is noticeable.

Heh, fair do's - I'd be thinking the same in your shoes! The mars 3 should be a nice improvement in resolution/detail, build size and reduced print time. Kinda crazy how quickly the tech has improved at the budget end!

The mars 3 isn't enough of a jump from my mars 2 to justify the upgrade, but I'll be interested to see where they go with the mars 4.

I haven’t got a serviceable PC that I’d be able to use for linking this anyway to be fair.
So it’d be a big outlay to get that and then a printer, then all the consumables etc

Danny76 wrote:
I haven’t got a serviceable PC that I’d be able to use for linking this anyway to be fair.
So it’d be a big outlay to get that and then a printer, then all the consumables etc

You don't need much of a PC - you just need to layout the models on the build plate in the slicer program with the appropriate settings for your printer (layer height, resin exposure time etc) and it creates a new file for the printer that you put on a pen drive. The printer itself reads that file off the pen drive and does the rest.

Anything from the last 10 years or so should be powerful enough; the only bit that needs a little 3d horsepower is calculating the volume of resin you'll use, but you can turn that off. I have a 2013-era pc that runs chitubox fine that way. There are cloud-based slicers you can use in a browser too, but I've not tried that for resin printers.

The upfront cost of the printer and consumables though, yes, is a barrier.

GW is doing a great job of pricing people into the hobby though. When it is cheaper to get a whole printing setup than it is to buy one of their headline boxes, then Things change.

 arkhanist wrote:

Heh, fair do's - I'd be thinking the same in your shoes! The mars 3 should be a nice improvement in resolution/detail, build size and reduced print time. Kinda crazy how quickly the tech has improved at the budget end!

The mars 3 isn't enough of a jump from my mars 2 to justify the upgrade, but I'll be interested to see where they go with the mars 4.

Well I placed the order, went for the Mars 3 Pro that was just announced as I managed a deal, also sold my original Mars to a friend who's happy with it and will do the screen replacement himself. End up cost me around £120 total. Only downside is its estimated shipping is next month.

Out of interest what resin do you use? I gave the last of mine away with the Mars and debating trying something new, only really been using the Elegoo ABS like resin as its what i had the settings dialled in for, but tempted to try some others if you have recommendations.

MaleficentRuler wrote:

 arkhanist wrote:

Heh, fair do's - I'd be thinking the same in your shoes! The mars 3 should be a nice improvement in resolution/detail, build size and reduced print time. Kinda crazy how quickly the tech has improved at the budget end!

The mars 3 isn't enough of a jump from my mars 2 to justify the upgrade, but I'll be interested to see where they go with the mars 4.

Well I placed the order, went for the Mars 3 Pro that was just announced as I managed a deal, also sold my original Mars to a friend who's happy with it and will do the screen replacement himself. End up cost me around £120 total. Only downside is its estimated shipping is next month.

Out of interest what resin do you use? I gave the last of mine away with the Mars and debating trying something new, only really been using the Elegoo ABS like resin as its what i had the settings dialled in for, but tempted to try some others if you have recommendations.

Slightly envious now - the preorder price is very good and the replacable carbon filter is a nice upgrade over the standard mars 3.

In my case ventilation isn't great in my 3d printing area (it's a store room with a desk) unless I leave the small window wide open - which isn't ideal with rain etc! So I much prefer to use resin that's minimal odour & VOC, which rather ruled out the abs-like. I've been having decent results with anycubic grey eco resin; it's a soybean oil based resin that's similar price, nearly smell free, 0 VOC, and supposedly solid waste is eventually biodegradable also. It's got a reasonable amount of flex to it if you underexpose it a touch, but goes brittle quite quickly if overcured. It's fine for normal models. For thin parts where I need more robustness (chain axe handles, or swords, for example) I mix in 15-20% Siraya tenacious. This is a viscous resin that cures very rubbery on its own, but it's quite popular to add to other resins to counter brittleness, it just needs to be mixed in well. It's quite expensive, but it goes a long way, and the final prints have a lot more flex and don't break when dropped, yet keep the detail and can still be sanded no problem. (having a cat that likes to test gravity off my desk a lot, this is a critical requirement!). It does add a little odour, but not much. I think elegoo have also launched their own soybean eco resin now, but not tried it.

I'm quite tempted to try out amazon's rebranded eono engineering resin for delicate parts at some point, it seems to have a good reputation and low odour, and I've some non-model things I'd like to print that the high strength would be useful for.

This lot's parts were printed with the eco/tenacious mix, 30 micro layers, 1.8 sec. (couple of the legs were on an old FEP, so there was a small slip line I had to sand down). There's a pile of chainaxes just out of shot...

I use Elegoo water washable stuff. It keeps a bit of flex but can be a bit brittle on very narrow bits.

 arkhanist wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
I haven’t got a serviceable PC that I’d be able to use for linking this anyway to be fair.
So it’d be a big outlay to get that and then a printer, then all the consumables etc

You don't need much of a PC - you just need to layout the models on the build plate in the slicer program with the appropriate settings for your printer (layer height, resin exposure time etc) and it creates a new file for the printer that you put on a pen drive. The printer itself reads that file off the pen drive and does the rest.

Anything from the last 10 years or so should be powerful enough; the only bit that needs a little 3d horsepower is calculating the volume of resin you'll use, but you can turn that off. I have a 2013-era pc that runs chitubox fine that way. There are cloud-based slicers you can use in a browser too, but I've not tried that for resin printers.

The upfront cost of the printer and consumables though, yes, is a barrier.

Maybe I’ll take a look and see, but I still feel it’d be a big cost to try and find which may be the tricky point.

The Primarch models I have are a meaty size (FW like in scale I guess) so farming them out to someone would probably end up a bit too..
Though same problem if I want a whole gang or Kill Team doing there I guess.
I should probably stop buying cool stl’s, but that’s the problem when they look so awesome I just have to get them

Danny76 wrote:

 arkhanist wrote:

Danny76 wrote:
I haven’t got a serviceable PC that I’d be able to use for linking this anyway to be fair.
So it’d be a big outlay to get that and then a printer, then all the consumables etc

You don't need much of a PC - you just need to layout the models on the build plate in the slicer program with the appropriate settings for your printer (layer height, resin exposure time etc) and it creates a new file for the printer that you put on a pen drive. The printer itself reads that file off the pen drive and does the rest.

Anything from the last 10 years or so should be powerful enough; the only bit that needs a little 3d horsepower is calculating the volume of resin you'll use, but you can turn that off. I have a 2013-era pc that runs chitubox fine that way. There are cloud-based slicers you can use in a browser too, but I've not tried that for resin printers.

The upfront cost of the printer and consumables though, yes, is a barrier.

Maybe I’ll take a look and see, but I still feel it’d be a big cost to try and find which may be the tricky point.

The Primarch models I have are a meaty size (FW like in scale I guess) so farming them out to someone would probably end up a bit too..
Though same problem if I want a whole gang or Kill Team doing there I guess.
I should probably stop buying cool stl’s, but that’s the problem when they look so awesome I just have to get them

The mars 3 pro is up for pre-order at £244 which is cheaper than the slightly older ordinary mars 3! Main difference is the pro has a carbon filter to help cut down the resin odour.

The mars 2 is still a solid printer that does quality work that is a bit smaller, but is nearly as sharp as the mars 3 and is down to £154. A £30 litre of resin will print a LOT of minis. Then you'd need gloves, a 5 pack of FEPs will do you for a good while, a couple of litres of IPA and a pickle tub for washing. You can cure in sunlight in a tub of clean water, or pick up a cheap UV nail lamp. And a cheap silicone slap mat to protect your workspace is easier than newspaper etc. Call it £80-100 on top of the printer for all you'll need for the first 100 minis plus. Plus a ventilated print space that's ideally out of direct sunlight.

The nicest STLs are paid-for, but you seem to have that well covered. Does seem a bit pointless buying designs without a way to print them though! Though for small quantities, there are print-on-demand shops, but you'll pretty quickly outpace the cost of having your own printer last I looked into it. Another option would be to investigate if there's any makerspaces local to you - they quite often have 3d printers now and they're cheaper because you do the work yourself, though resin printers are rarer. 3d printing is one of those things that costs a decent amount up front, but saves a lot of money going forward. But in the middle of a huge cost-of-living crisis may not be the easiest time to invest, certainly! I'm not sure I'd be able to get into it from scratch right now either...

Yeah, I guess just not an ideal buying time these days.
Washing and Curing is an extra cost if you buy the proper machines, but for curing any old tub sort of thing?
Gloves I have loads of anyway.
So resin, IPA, and whatever to wash in itself.

I guess bears looking into.
But yeah picking up the stl’s is future proofing for in case I get one etc..

The minimum need for curing is a sunny windowsill in a well Ventilated room. You need the tubs for washing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lots of paper towels

Danny76 wrote:
Yeah, I guess just not an ideal buying time these days.
Washing and Curing is an extra cost if you buy the proper machines, but for curing any old tub sort of thing?
Gloves I have loads of anyway.
So resin, IPA, and whatever to wash in itself.

I guess bears looking into.
But yeah picking up the stl’s is future proofing for in case I get one etc..

For washing the prints of leftover liquid resin, I started with a pickle jar, and still use it now. Pop the stuff in, slosh it gently! That one has gone up in price (it's popular with 3d print people!) so here's a cheaper version.

There are water-washable resins now for the same price as standard or plant-based ones, so you can also mostly skip the cost of IPA. I found the smell hung around a bit too much for my use, but if you have a well-ventilated space (mine only has a small window) then that's another way to save money. The printer vat might need a bit of IPA to clean when you're not going to be printing again for a while, but that's still a lot less needed. Note, water contaminated with resin should still not be poured down the drain, same as contaminated IPA (it's toxic to aquatic life). Let it evaporate away when it's got too clouded, then wipe up and dispose of normally the dry waste.

If you're doing the final cure (to harden the model surface) with sunlight you get better results if it's underwater; any clear plastic container that you can put water and minis in on the windowsill will do. Overexposing can make the prints brittle, which curing under water mostly prevents. Just takes longer than doing it with a UV lamp or torch.

I have just got hold of some 3D printed minis for Epic, they are probably the first I have tried after not being very impressed with some I bought about 2-3 years ago.

Absolutely stunned by the level of detail, the crispness and the smooth finish of the print. Considering these guys are only 7-8mm tall they are easily as good as any plastic or metal mini I have seen at the scale and very minimal cleanup needed.

I am still going to buy minis from the likes of Vanguard, Onslaught etc. as I love their stuff and want to support them, but I think anyone who thinks 3D printing is going to be anything other than revolutionary in the wargaming miniature world is 'doing a Blockbusters'