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leopard wrote:

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

It never used to be this way. So what changed?

In my opinion it's caused by the ever increasing influence of the competitive scene. It's easier to create gaming balance when you have limited or no options in game to speak of.

that and a desire to stop people using 3rd party models

H.B.M.C. wrote:It's about control. CHS shook GW to its core, and made them realise that they don't own all the things they think they own.

Ever since then everything has been about controlling what's in their game so that they can be the only ones that produce them. It's why we have no model/no rule. It's why unit options are now kit-based. It's why squad sizes are becoming increasingly box-based. It's why Warcry and Combat Patrol are the way they are. It's why there's a "minimum table size". It's one of the reasons Age of Sigmar happened, and why we have Aelves, Orruks and Ogors rather than Elves, Orcs and Ogres. It's even why they changed from 28mm bases to 32mm bases - every third party and his dog made 28mm bases, but no one made 32mm, so GW changed to that so that everyone would have to dance to their tune.

Yeah, all of the factors mentioned above play a big part, but it's no coincidence that GW's least-competitive game is also the one with the most in-game options.

I don't think competitiveness and the abundance or paucity of options have anything to do with one another.

 skrulnik wrote:
Yes, he meant 25mm bases.

Sorry, I got the two mixed up.

Whatever everything was on before 32mm appeared!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't think competitiveness and the abundance or paucity of options have anything to do with one another.

It's much easier for game designers to balance a game if there are less variables in said game.

Balance (or at least the perception of balance) is important for competitive play.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

This is exactly what's losing my interest in GW's games. That and other things to say.

Not to say your wrong, your probably right sadly. I preferred the older editions of 40k where you had more flexibility on how you wanted to equipt your characters and units. It was more personalized and modeling friendly. Now everyone has the same thing... there is little variation.

I hope that doesn't come to Necromunda. It's one of the few things left with the old flexibility.

Judging by Kill Team, simple stuff like reducing bonus actions to max +1 per round would go a long way. Some minor tweaks to weapon costs. And for simplicity get rid of fighter specific equipment lists.

The new rule book is hopefully a small and very late step in that direction.

Fighter-specific weapon lists seem to repeat a lot of the same stuff over and over again.

I know that they were controversial when first introduced, but just a House weapon list (or Gang weapon list) that everyone can choose from, with the restrictions in the fighter types (eg. no heavy weapons on regular Gangers) would save some time.

But if the alternatives are what we have now and another batch of House books... I'll keep what we have now. Better the devil you know, and all that.

Having bought all of the books so far, there is absolutely no way that I'd be buying "2nd edition" version of the House Of books.

It's just not going to happen.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Fighter-specific weapon lists seem to repeat a lot of the same stuff over and over again.

I know that they were controversial when first introduced, but just a House weapon list (or Gang weapon list) that everyone can choose from, with the restrictions in the fighter types (eg. no heavy weapons on regular Gangers) would save some time.

But if the alternatives are what we have now and another batch of House books... I'll keep what we have now. Better the devil you know, and all that.

guess it can go three ways, none perfect

1. as now, each gang gets a weapons list, mix of common and unique stuff, the common is repeated in all lists, subjected to mistakes etc and a pain to errata, at least its easy to print for your faction

2. one list to rule them all, has everything, great reference to see what other gangs have, goes out of date a lot as new stuff arrives, at least its easy to roll up and club your opponent with, assuming you can lift it

3. one list of "common" weapons then a gang specific list thats just for them, loved by accountants everywhere for the complexity of having to look stuff up in two places to try and find anything, in theory the best option but never quite ends up that way

4. One digital (downloadable) complete trading post list to rule them all.
Updated regurlary. With feedback link so players can report errors and strange stats/costs (Escher lasguns, clubs, heavy flamers, grenade launchers. Webbers, flaying knives, etc.).
Perhaps also having gang specific lists without stats or points but specifying bonus/malus for different seapon types (Van Saar paying 25% more for bullet guns?).

leopard wrote:
if GW ever made a game that really should be in a ring binder its Necromunda (and Mordhiem), sell the base rules in a binder, with a nice set of dividers, have all the expansions as a pad with a cover, have the inside of the binder include reference tables in plastic pockets (so as to be replacable)

then handle the printing so no physical page has more than one rules "section" so individual pages can be replaced as well as other pages added.

annual update with errata reprinted pages, new tables etc, then all the add ones designed to slot into an ever growing and ever changing book

You sir, should apply for the job. GW could never come up with something as practical as this and honestly as a Necromunda player, you get it.

leopard wrote:
if GW ever made a game that really should be in a ring binder its Necromunda (and Mordhiem), sell the base rules in a binder, with a nice set of dividers, have all the expansions as a pad with a cover, have the inside of the binder include reference tables in plastic pockets (so as to be replacable)

then handle the printing so no physical page has more than one rules "section" so individual pages can be replaced as well as other pages added.

annual update with errata reprinted pages, new tables etc, then all the add ones designed to slot into an ever growing and ever changing book

I still have my official GW rule binders for Space Hulk and Adeptus Titanicus/Space Marine and their supplements . I don't know if they were still doing rulebooks that way when Necromunda 1st Ed appeared, but they were an innovation at the time.

Would be great to have them around again now - if there is an errata, GW uploads the corrected pages (only) as a PDF, so you print off those pages and your ruleset is always up to date.

zombie_sky_diver wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I think that, to GW, making Necromunda into a "real boy" would involve turning it into Warcry:

Set gangs with set models with set equipment played over set terrain layouts. Even 40k has some of that now with Combat Patrol.

It is, I believe, the ultimate end state for their skirmish games. If they could make Necromunda that way, they would.

This is exactly what's losing my interest in GW's games. That and other things to say.

Not to say your wrong, your probably right sadly. I preferred the older editions of 40k where you had more flexibility on how you wanted to equipt your characters and units. It was more personalized and modeling friendly. Now everyone has the same thing... there is little variation.

I hope that doesn't come to Necromunda. It's one of the few things left with the old flexibility.

I take some comfort in the fact that Necromunda has such a dedicated fanbase. The rules will be supported long after GW finds a new toy to play with. There are still fan updates for the original Necromunda.


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Baxx wrote:
Judging by Kill Team, simple stuff like reducing bonus actions to max +1 per round would go a long way. Some minor tweaks to weapon costs. And for simplicity get rid of fighter specific equipment lists.

The new rule book is hopefully a small and very late step in that direction.

That would be great just to reduce the various prices for weapons on each list. I am amazed such a basic error made it into nearly every House book.

I'm pretty eagerly awaiting the new rulebook's reviews. I've tried to get Necromunda going twice with my friends, who in theory love everything about it (RPG elements, gritty post-apocalyptic gang warfare, etc.), but haven't been able to get enough interest in it. The first time it was with the N17 boxed set and how GW kept releasing each gang (and campaign) in a separate book and the game launching with only two gangs. The second time was shortly before ash wastes and there was some genuine interest until people saw how spread out and confusing getting the rules to play the game was.

Really, in addition to miniatures/terrain, you should only need a single rulebook and your gang book (and for a skirmish game, it's kind of ridiculous to have a separate book for each gang). Hopefully this new book will makes things accessible enough that people will actually want to try to play the game here, because the core mechanics of the game is great and the concept is fantastic.

Hopefully they will see the interest and compile all the Book of sources into a single book. Maybe two or possibly three, with the core six gangs in one and the additional like ash wastes, cannibal cults, etc in their own compilation as a group.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Hopefully they will see the interest and compile all the Book of sources into a single book. Maybe two or possibly three, with the core six gangs in one and the additional like ash wastes, cannibal cults, etc in their own compilation as a group.

That would be doable. Kind of.

The House of Books have quite substantial background contained within. But, each also includes the same info, such as generic brutes and hangers on etc.

But, each is essentially a Codex, so even with repetition removed, it’d be a helluva volume.

New rulebook up for pre-order next weekend

The ultimate Necromunda rulebook is coming. This whopping 336-page hardback book compiles every major aspect of the rules in one gigantic tome, making it your one-stop shop for games of Necromunda – be they set in Zone Mortalis, Sector Mechanicus, or Ash Wastes battlefields. You’ll find the core rules for fighters and vehicles, plus skills, weapons and traits, a combined trading post, the Dominion Campaign, and 11 scenarios in total. It folds in all the FAQs and Errata from previous books, making it the perfect companion for your gangs.

I wonder how the Open Hive War pack is different to the previous one?

Well, guess I’ll be doing a pre-order whilst at the salon Saturday morning.

While I certainly think this Core Rulebook is a step in the right direction I'm not too impressed with the execution. It only mentions the Dominion campaign for example. I'll definitely be checking out reviews before ordering the book.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Hopefully they will see the interest and compile all the Book of sources into a single book. Maybe two or possibly three, with the core six gangs in one and the additional like ash wastes, cannibal cults, etc in their own compilation as a group.

That would be fantastic. One book with all the House Gangs, another with all the various other gangs. I think that along with a real rulebook with a campaign would make this game so much more accessible. Being able to tell someone “hey I have the rulebook, and the gang book, all you need to get started in our campaign is to buy a box of the gang you like,” I think would go a long way to have more people willing to try out the game.

That would definitely be a bonus. And, if they decided to later expand to other gangs, they'd only have to buy two books (one core, one gang) regardless of which one they choose. I don't know how the "House of" books are divided by page count between specific showcase gang fluff and rules, general rules, and campaign rules though to know if that's feasible.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wonder how the Open Hive War pack is different to the previous one?

Same cover, no mention of 'updated cards' or anything, so I'm guessing it's just a reprint.

El Torro wrote:
It only mentions the Dominion campaign for example.

How many campaigns are there? Uprising in Dark Uprising, Ash Wastes in Ash Wastes, Law & Misrule in Book of Judgement...

El Torro wrote:
While I certainly think this Core Rulebook is a step in the right direction I'm not too impressed with the execution. It only mentions the Dominion campaign for example. I'll definitely be checking out reviews before ordering the book.

This. I am terribly tired of books plenty of typos and misprints, especially if they are expensive as GW book.

I'm happy with the new rulebook, the contents look right, 40 plus pages of black market will definitely need a cargo cult to manage it all. Surprised it is happening though especially in this format as 350 page books don't happen a lot anymore. I assume 40K and end of year box sets have eaten into production time so maybe why no news of Aranthian book 3 and the plastics to go with it. Iwonder if staff leaving like the forgeworld sculptor fellow and Louise who I believe put together art for some of the books has altered GWs release schedule, could be months before that makes a difference though.

I'm sure it is to soon after ash wastes but would hope GW continues and puts out box set for secundus, sylene or even mortis (GW seems to like box sets). Secundus hive survival freezing horror with a unique take on gene cult rad phaged and all altered by whatever the scientists were doing would be a personal wish. It's been a shame they don't have Andy Hoare talking about it anymore and info is relegated to those poor timeline pics that don't really show anything. Maybe with a "definitive" rulebook any new boxsets can concentrate on campaigns and new or outlander miniatures to go with it.

Only eleven scenarios. There were fourteen in the previous rulebook alone, so that's quite a lot cut.

Well that solves that:

Me: How is the Open Hive War pack different to the last one?

GW: This is a re-release of the previous card pack for people who missed out on the last one.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wonder how the Open Hive War pack is different to the previous one?

It might be identical (at least judging by the preview card in the video). One could hope they correct the deployment zones to not be next to each other though


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Only eleven scenarios. There were fourteen in the previous rulebook alone, so that's quite a lot cut.

There are more than 140 scenarios in Necromunda. Not counting 4 unique variants of "rescue mission". Who knows which version the rescue mission in this book is? Or could be a 5th version

I'm surprised to see the sleeves again - I really didn't think they would ever come back, though this does create quite the dilemma.

Not only would I need to buy a ton of them (and with recent GW shenanigans, would my FLGS even get their full allocation and enough to fulfil my order) but I would also need to think about how many new sets of cards GW will release over the next few years. This could get expensive..

beast_gts wrote:

El Torro wrote:
It only mentions the Dominion campaign for example.

How many campaigns are there? Uprising in Dark Uprising, Ash Wastes in Ash Wastes, Law & Misrule in Book of Judgement...

So far 7 (or 8 if you count WD mini campaign "Assault on Precinct Fortress 17"): Dominion, Law & Misrule, Uprising, Outlander, Ash Wastes, Succession 1, Succession 2. It is a standardized format (like most other stuff) so can be altered with in order to create "new" content forever. 3 phases, 7 cycles, fluff name for resource, starting credits, then some special effects for flavour.


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SonofHades wrote:
Maybe with a "definitive" rulebook any new boxsets can concentrate on campaigns and new or outlander miniatures to go with it.

Feels like an impossible task because boxed games MUST have rules for fresh players. And since there are going to be new boxes, they will have new rulebooks that will warp, mutate, crop and expand upon this rulebook. And hence it's just a matter of (short) time before this rulebook is aging (just like all rulebooks before it). Necromunda rulebooks are best served fresh