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 Rihgu wrote:
I'm guessing it means you don't have a minimum roll for success to hit Primarchs, but get the other bonuses.

That was how i understood it.

tneva82 wrote:

 Rihgu wrote:
I'm guessing it means you don't have a minimum roll for success to hit Primarchs, but get the other bonuses.

That was how i understood it.

Same. Primarchs being hard to auto-wound is about what I'd expect.

While the Imperalis book is good news, I am hoping that we'll see the rest of the legions see shoulder pads and head options soon. I don't want a repeat of the Cataphractii shoulder pad situation.

I'd love an MTO for the old metal Assassins, but I'm not getting my hopes up...

beast_gts wrote:
I'd love an MTO for the old metal Assassins, but I'm not getting my hopes up...

They did one not so long ago, so it's not impossible.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Garro is in the Legacy PDF

Does he have a model?

He is not wearing his Death Guard armour?

 Strg Alt wrote:
He is not wearing his Death Guard armour?

Not since he betrayed them.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
He is not wearing his Death Guard armour?

Not since he betrayed them.

Did the loyalist betray the traitors, or did the traitors betray the loyalist?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:
He is not wearing his Death Guard armour?

Not since he betrayed them.

Did the loyalist betray the traitors, or did the traitors betray the loyalist?

Everyone betrayed everyone...hence the galaxy spanning disagreement

Mmm?, in the story's he is wearing grey armour without bling only a sigil on his pouldrons

 Strg Alt wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Strg Alt wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Garro is in the Legacy PDF

Does he have a model?

He is not wearing his Death Guard armour?

That IS his Death Guard armor with added Agent of the Sigilite marks. Flight of the Eisenstein describes the eagle cuirass he wears and his armor being unpainted.

Reaction: "you can't shoot me and you waste your attacks" is definitely good game design and something that needs to be in 30k. Remind me why we have the awkward reaction system and not a proper alternating activation game?

Prob due to A/A not being the panacea that people think it is...

Aecus Decimus wrote:
Reaction: "you can't shoot me and you waste your attacks" is definitely good game design and something that needs to be in 30k. Remind me why we have the awkward reaction system and not a proper alternating activation game?

That same mechanic exists in other AA/skirmish games like Infinity already. Nobody has a huge problem with it.

Personally I'm bored to death of basic AA, it's been all everybody's doing for the past decade.

I don't see the appeal of standing around doing nothing for 30-45 min while your opponent takes his turn, but that's just me...

Why not integrated turns?

Player A moves
Player B moves
Player A shoots
Player B shoots
Player A charges
Player B charges
Player A fights
Player B fights

It isn't straight alternating activation, but lets both players react to the table situation, and keeps them both involved.

Maybe a little mixing up would be necessary (I don't play 40k/30k). Maybe combining charging and fighting, or making charges a part of the player's movement phase.

I spoke to Andy Chambers on FB and he wanted to bring AA into 40k editions ago, but any AA system is going to require a complete rework of everything because it changes the entire game's flow, and then it still isn't a panacea as AA comes with it's own problems.

I think when we get down to it, most people want AA because it's different and they think different will fix the game it's applied to instead of change the issues the game faces.

My biggest issue with the game is the sheer amount of time that you're not doing anything, or making saving rolls. AA would fix that. But it does come with its own issues, and a straight AA can be very boring.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Did anyone else catch in the article the self-contradiction in the Nemesis rule?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/09/08/heresy-thursday-custodes-solar-auxilia-and-assassins-prepare-for-war-with-liber-imperium/

and doth I quote:

These mighty warriors scan the battlefield looking for particularly worthy targets. Once an enemy unit fulfils the essential criteria to count as a ‘Nemesis’ unit the Custodes can engage, gaining +1 Attacks, +1 to Charge Rolls, and never needing to roll higher than 4+ to score a Hit – unless that foe is a Primarch.

Except if you read the Nemesis rule itself it says:

A nemesis unit is defined as any enemy unit that fulfills at least one of the following conditions:

* The unit include one or more models with at least one of the following Unit Types or Unit Sub-Types: Primarch....

As has been pointed out, this isn't necessarily a contradiction - the first point is talking about the effect of the rule, while the second is referring to what the rule might affect to some extent - there's nothing requiring all units that could be caught by it to suffer the same effect.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:
My biggest issue with the game is the sheer amount of time that you're not doing anything, or making saving rolls. AA would fix that. But it does come with its own issues, and a straight AA can be very boring.

Reactions and Stratagems were both approaches to trying to solve that but then I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.

Now you can argue execution of those ideas, but they did try and break up the passive waiting game.

Toofast wrote:
I don't see the appeal of standing around doing nothing for 30-45 min while your opponent takes his turn, but that's just me...

That's just a problem with turns taking too long, or not being broken down into small enough components.

I find AA tends to create a bunch of separate issues.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 infinite_array wrote:
Why not integrated turns?

Player A moves
Player B moves
Player A shoots
Player B shoots
Player A charges
Player B charges
Player A fights
Player B fights

It isn't straight alternating activation, but lets both players react to the table situation, and keeps them both involved.

GW have made games that operate that way in the past.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I think when we get down to it, most people want AA because it's different and they think different will fix the game it's applied to instead of change the issues the game faces.

No, we want AA because many of 40k's issues are direct consequences of IGOUGO and IGOUGO is inherently a bad mechanic. There's a reason the rest of the industry has abandoned it to the trash pile of history.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Reactions and Stratagems were both approaches to trying to solve that but then I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.

The attention problem with stratagems is not with paying attention to the game, it's that the thing you have to pay attention to is a completely off-table pseudo-CCG. You can't look at the game state and watch what is happening, you have to remember all the off-table buffs and debuffs that could suddenly be applied. And because it's such a horribly over-complicated system you have to watch carefully to make sure your opponent isn't cheating. A true AA system wouldn't have this problem since everything is still on the table and composed of the same basic actions that all units take.

(Granted, this is less severe for reactions since there are fewer of them but the reaction system makes up for it with the very poor scaling.)

AA would be amazing. I'm pretty sure there is a recent batrep that did it with 40k. It is my hope it will happen one day.

Can we please not derail yet another thread with discussion on AA?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I saw people complaining that they need to pay too much attention all the time and need to have their brains always on what their opponent is doing like it's a bad thing.

The only complaints I see about stratagems is the sheer amount of them. Listen to podcasts with guys like Nick Nanavati, who does nothing but travel to 40k tournaments and talk about it on youtube in his free time, hear a strat and go "huh, what does that do? Oh, I forgot that army could do that".

These top tier killers can be deployed to take out key targets – no matter what the enemy’s individual strengths or defences are. The recently revealed Clade Vanus operative is one of the seven different brain-washed executioners you can field in an Imperium Army.*

7 (or even 8) Clades? I thought there were only 6! :O

 Malika2 wrote:

These top tier killers can be deployed to take out key targets – no matter what the enemy’s individual strengths or defences are. The recently revealed Clade Vanus operative is one of the seven different brain-washed executioners you can field in an Imperium Army.*

7 (or even 8) Clades? I thought there were only 6! :O

I think that 6 we know of are just the big/main ones. It is probable that there is some unknown number of minor clades that have some very niche specialities.

Got my Lucius and praetor order in. Pleasantly surprised by the price, even better when I found £50 sat in my PayPal wallet that I'd forgotten about. Winner.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Got my Lucius and praetor order in. Pleasantly surprised by the price, even better when I found £50 sat in my PayPal wallet that I'd forgotten about. Winner.

Money you've forgotten about is always a bonus

Interested to see if they release a new Sanguinius model when they release his book, or bring back his diorama base. The current model is just bad, the diorama helps a lot, but it's still not good. With the new Horus, is it too optimistic to hope for a nice beaten up Siege of Terra version of Sanguinius, preferablywithout a terriblehead and a rock ip his arse?