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SamusDrake wrote:
Once again GW are selling 30K as "40K but only with Marines."

Wasn't that always the whole point of HH?

 Crimson wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Once again GW are selling 30K as "40K but only with Marines."

Wasn't that always the whole point of HH?

Keyword "only".

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Once again GW are selling 30K as "40K but only with Marines."

Wasn't that always the whole point of HH?

Keyword "only".

i say this as a talons player but if someone is wanting to get into HH for factions other than marines it's because they're either specifically playing with a marines player (in this case, my girlfriend), or because they also play marines. HH is the space marines game, fully. it's "the space marine civil war, and some other factions". GW has never presented it as anything else

I can understand the frustration that they completely left out mechanicum or auxilia from the discussion. Not everyone likes marines, some people are drawn to poor bloody infantry and ww1 tanks or robotic techno-undead with land biremes and triremes, etc. Omitting them from marketing plays into the whole "HH is just all marines all the time, very boring" narrative of its detractors and serves to limit the audience and reach of the game.

Or something.

One article is hardly all of the marketing, is it?

If we get to the point where the new edition comes out and there is nothing for anything but the Legions, then one could say "all the marketing is aimed at Astartes".

One cound interpret it as non Legion players not having to prepare for Saturnine because they're not getting anything in Saturnine. Its existence doesn't affect their army building.

It's also day one of the new week after the big reveal on Friday, which included Mechanicum and Talons teasers.

So for the wider thread, wait literally more than one day and stuff will get put up, yeah?

Saturnine: How to prepare for the new edition of the Horus Heresy

Light fluff article (but GW telling me again to buy more dreads...)

As beast demonstrated, their article about how to prepare for the new edition *only* features marines and basically advises players in a way that basically ignores the existence of any faction which isnt marines.

So yes, all the marketing, functionally speaking. They probably wont be publishing an article titled "Saturnine Part Two: How to prepare for the new edition of the Horus Heresy if you dont play marines"

Yep, I'm putting my Milita (& Blackshields) on hold for a while - Mechanicum should be a safe(r) bet...

Smallest of small hills to die on.

um..guys... the big new boxed set ONLY HAS MARINES IN IT. It was also the big focus of the reveal event the other day where other factions only got a few partial images of new models - not even full models on show.

So yeah of course the marketing from now until launch is going to focus heavily on the Marines because they are in the new boxed set that's the primary focus of the marketing from now until it launches.


That's just marketing, that's how it works. It doesn't want to market the thing that's coming in 6 months when its got something coming in 1-2 months. It wants you spending on the 1-2 month stuff

Other factions will only get a mention when the books for launch are getting a mention; otherwise as they don't have new models there's no reason for marketing to focus on them right now.

I am curious why nowt was teased for the Solar Auxilia during the Saturnine preview, alongside the teases for the Talons & Mechanicum - surely there's something coming for them in the year of Tanks, right?

 Overread wrote:


Other factions will only get a mention when the books for launch are getting a mention; otherwise as they don't have new models there's no reason for marketing to focus on them right now.

Did you forget that they literally previewed the mechanicum, auxilia, and knights libers and announced them as day 1 releases at the preview? By your own logic, todays article shouldve included a section about starting one of those factions.

Love the latest GW article, in short: “How to prepare for Saturnine? Buy more stuff!”

 Malika2 wrote:
Love the latest GW article, in short: “How to prepare for Saturnine? Buy more stuff!”

Well, it wasn't going to be "wait and see what's good, or even legal, in the new edition"

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Other factions will only get a mention when the books for launch are getting a mention; otherwise as they don't have new models there's no reason for marketing to focus on them right now.

Did you forget that they literally previewed the mechanicum, auxilia, and knights libers and announced them as day 1 releases at the preview? By your own logic, todays article shouldve included a section about starting one of those factions.

Yes but the article wasn't talking about the books was it. It was talking about models so hence the big marine focus. That's the main big draw - GW 100% knows that models out-pace books in terms of customer interest.

When GW wants to market the books they'll give an article or two on the factions; if you're lucky each book gets its own marketing announcement and focus with a brief overview of their faction.


Anyone who finds 1 marine article after basically a marine model preview; is enough to turn them away - eh - they were looking for an excuse to leave in the first place

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
Love the latest GW article, in short: “How to prepare for Saturnine? Buy more stuff!”

Well, it wasn't going to be "wait and see what's good, or even legal, in the new edition"

I know, and I also know that anything put on that site has the singular purpose of making folks buy more stuff, but this just felt…well…almost lazy?

Some of those new colour plates are fantastic. Wish they'd release all of the Mark II & Saturnine plates for all of the Legions as a matter of course though

chaos0xomega wrote:
I can understand the frustration that they completely left out mechanicum or auxilia from the discussion. Not everyone likes marines, some people are drawn to poor bloody infantry and ww1 tanks or robotic techno-undead with land biremes and triremes, etc. Omitting them from marketing plays into the whole "HH is just all marines all the time, very boring" narrative of its detractors and serves to limit the audience and reach of the game.

Or something.

This is pretty much what's wrong with the article. I'm not knocking the game but just wish GW would stop self-sabotaging their efforts to sell it, as the Heresy family of products has come a very long way in only 3 years.

For the record, the marines are very cool in the Heresy era and the Saturnine half of the new box game looks amazing. Shame about the other half...

 Overread wrote:


Yes but the article wasn't talking about the books was it. It was talking about models so hence the big marine focus. That's the main big draw - GW 100% knows that models out-pace books in terms of customer interest.

One of the first sections of the article is literally "Get reading! (or listening)" and encouraging folks to pick up the novels/audiobooks. Its clearly more than just hawking models. Did you even look at the article before trying to formulate these arguments? Or are you just debating for the sake of debating?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Overread wrote:


Yes but the article wasn't talking about the books was it. It was talking about models so hence the big marine focus. That's the main big draw - GW 100% knows that models out-pace books in terms of customer interest.

One of the first sections of the article is literally "Get reading! (or listening)" and encouraging folks to pick up the novels/audiobooks. Its clearly more than just hawking models. Did you even look at the article before trying to formulate these arguments? Or are you just debating for the sake of debating?

By books I mean the new books for the various non-marine factions in the rules.
Which don't feature once in the article which is hyper focused on Marines because its a Marine focused article. Again because only 3 days ago they just announced a huge new run of only Marine models in the new starter for the upcoming launch.


Again I fully expect that other factions present will get a mention in their own article at some point because GW will start marketing the new faction books as well. They are just not AS major a point as the Marines who get to use all those shiny new models that will be going on sale first.

beast_gts wrote:
Yep, I'm putting my Milita (& Blackshields) on hold for a while - Mechanicum should be a safe(r) bet...

I guess but a good chunk of their line hasn't been released in plastic. So you're stuck with old FW models for Myrmidons and a Magos on abeyant. As far as marines go, unless all units get line or the ability hold objectives the fear evergone has with building an army is minimal. If you're that scared about assembling an army, just build vehicles. As a marine player, when I get the new box, I will have 40 more power armored bodies to assemble. The only thing I plan on putting on hold is building my Kakiphony and Sun Killers with Mk6 or Mk3 marines. Instead, I'm going to make them with Mk2 so I can represent them as Vets. Also, I still plan on using Cataphractii and Tartarus terminators as I enjoyed playing Pride of the Legion. I feel like the Community will continue to push for some kind of balance. My local game shop balanced out the dreadnought issue and I feel like the greater community will do the same if there are initial lists that are rough out of the gate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overread wrote:
um..guys... the big new boxed set ONLY HAS MARINES IN IT. It was also the big focus of the reveal event the other day where other factions only got a few partial images of new models - not even full models on show.

So yeah of course the marketing from now until launch is going to focus heavily on the Marines because they are in the new boxed set that's the primary focus of the marketing from now until it launches.


That's just marketing, that's how it works. It doesn't want to market the thing that's coming in 6 months when its got something coming in 1-2 months. It wants you spending on the 1-2 month stuff

Other factions will only get a mention when the books for launch are getting a mention; otherwise as they don't have new models there's no reason for marketing to focus on them right now.

It's almost as if 18 of the primary factions are Legions... That the Horus Heresy revolves primarily around the Legions. If you were to look at the Black Library Books, how many of the 50+ books revolve around a Space Marine Legion? Demons, Militia, Auxiliaries, and Mechanicus are all other players and are numerous in the galaxy, but not necessarily the main characters until the Siege of Terra where they want the story told from the eyes of mortals and show how things have been distorted over 10,000 years.

The legion colors in that article really show the difference between the older art and new. The Salamanders got brightened up a bit, doesn't really match the vulkan green paint that they've been selling....and they didn't even put flames on the armor.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Random thought.

Wonder if we might see Legion Specific upgrades for the Saturnine Dreadnought?

Of course we will. Because it will be yet another opportunity for them to completely forget the World Eaters exist.

 lord_blackfang wrote:


OH the image here is bigger. It's not mk4, it's new Cataphractii

I hold hope that it's Destroyers and not Cataphractii, but I'm good with either.

So much to comment on.

MK2 look nice. They used to be the TEMU version of MK3 but now they have their own flair. Good job!

I (right now) like the 4 mental stats! I remember when they went to 1 stat and everyone was moaning that they were dumbing down the game. I'm hoping that these stats come into play during list building, on who can take what (in whatever way)- either tech, squads etc. I also think they'll add some depth to each legion.

As for multi wounds? Ehhhh... I have mixed feelings. Veterans with 2 wounds would make them harder to kill. I loved HH vet squads but they died way too fast and therefore weren't worth the cost, so I stopped taking them. I don't know how this will affect the game big picture.

I'm nervous about taking some restrictions out of list building. But again, we fear what we don't know, so I will remain cautiously optimistic and wait to hold the book.

I’m on board for multi-damage weapons, as it can open up design space.

As you mentioned, Veterans moving to W2. More resistant to small arms fire, but don’t necessarily gain protection against the shootier guns.

It also tones down Dreadnoughts (depending on exact stats!) as they become easier to plink away at with Heavy Weapons. And for vehicles, one presumes AP2/AP1 is no longer quite the deciding factor.

On the four mental stats? I like the concept, but judgement is withheld you gil we know more about the execution. For instance, if CL just isn’t used much compared to LD, we might find ourselves asking what the point was. But, like multi-damage weapons if does open up design space.

Guys immah stop you right here.

Veterans already are W2 in HH 2.0

The new edition introduces multi-wound guns.

Veterans can only get less survivable.

Would it be feasible to have that massive saturnine Dread on a 40k army?

No idea. The Kratos tank got Legends rules for Loyalist Chapters when it debuted.

But that of course doesn’t necessarily set a precedent.