Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Dudeface wrote: Warhammer fans have a tendency to be disproportionately emotive in responses with a flair for the hyperbole, they also seem to constantly need GW's approval for everything and only be able to do what GW say. Likewise "trying to make the most of it" is like a sin level with mugging your nan apparently.
"Trying to make the most of it" falls flat when the rules have had significant changes and read like a scientific paper, customisation has been nuked then locked behind a paywall of extra books, and chunks of units aren't valid outside of house rules or mass counts-as/proxies.
As the saying goes, you can put glitter on it but it will always be what it is.
I've repeatedly stated I agree and dislike the core rules. The point stands, there's room to find use for people's collection, they can try and work with or around it if they want to play 3.0. Or they can be emotive and never play again/sell their army/whatever. Which isn't invalid if they wish to feel that way, just seems a shame to be so volatile as a response.
You make the most of a rainy camping weekend, you don't make the most of a massive company screwing around with a product you invest hundreds of hours and potentially thousands of pounds in to trying to enjoy. It's right to expect that your enjoyment is somewhere high on their list of priorities, which this release once again demonstrates it isn't.
You weren't going to play 3rd ed HH anyway so why are you mad?
It's called providing examples to back up a point.
But yeah sure, I'm banned from commenting or supporting others points in a discussion because I'm not playing HH3.
OK, let's go through it:
Spoiler:
Iron Hands - 2x Destroyers, 1x Scouts, 1x Gorgon Terminators (loadout changes mean my converted Gorgons are now illegal), 1x Praevian (has something that isn't in the loadout so now it has to be something else so no robot buddies for him), 1x Moritat (doesn't have a Jump Pack so is no longer a legal loadout).
You've not said much but a stock destroyer is pistols and chainsword, close to an assault or despiiler squad based on jump pack or not.
You've not commented on the gorgons, you could still field gorgons and use them with the legal stock loadout.
The praevian has limited gear so simply has the stock gear and is still a praevian.
Field the moritat model as is, using the profile provided. The jump pack is aesthetic only.
Salamanders - 1x Firedrake Terminators (same as the Gorgons). I've also lost Dragonsbreath Flamers and Drakescale Shields. Thank you GW very cool.
Again, not giving much context, again you could use them as stock loadout.
Raven Guard - 3x Scouts (i.e. all my core line units and the RoW that allowed them to be line).
Line no longer matters in this context, there are no Scouts, whilst I agree that's a problem here, I'm actually OK with scouts going away on a fluff level, use them as recon squads?
Iron Warriors - 1x Warsmith (not in Terminator armour so he's been reduced to generic consul, so I would no longer have a Warmsith as I don't have any other models with the right loadout), 1x Terminator Librarian (as far as I am aware, these are gone). Potentially other consuls from this army though I am not 100% sure just yet. Ironically, my Siege Breaker is fine because the model has a Thunderhammer.
You acknowledge you can still use the warsmith, the same will apply to the librarian.
Is any of that really that hard if you wanted to continue using your minis?
Is it worth tearing them apart or simply not playing rather than make that small leap of logic?
Frankly it doesn't matter, people can be upset about what they're upset about. It doesn't mean everyone will be as empathic as others and that's why people are interesting, we're all different.
I understand your approach and it's actually what I sometimes do when playing OPR with my 40K models that don’t always fit 1:1.
However, whenever you say: "use this with the stock profile" it implies every opponent will know every profile and therefore be aware that the thunderhammer on unit 1 is a thunderhammer while on unit 2 it's a sword because now that profile can suddenly only come with a sword. But what if your opponent doesn't play loyalist Marines? He won't know the guy without jump Pack actually has a jump Pack, etc. It's the usual problem whenever using proxies that don’t use the exact equipment of the thing they proxy.
Billicus wrote: You make the most of a rainy camping weekend, you don't make the most of a massive company screwing around with a product you invest hundreds of hours and potentially thousands of pounds in to trying to enjoy. It's right to expect that your enjoyment is somewhere high on their list of priorities, which this release once again demonstrates it isn't.
So if you don't make the most of it and get the enjoyment you can out of the product, what do you do?
Yeah we could have just gotten new models and an updated 2.0 rulebook to fix some of the issues like literally everyone wanted.
Instead they choose to make the absolute worst possible design choices and a whole new edition because "we have to every 3 years"
The fact that a massive W was so easily attainable and required far less work and money that the massive L we got is what is so fething frustrating. They deserve all the gak they're getting, people are rightfully pissed and honestly I'm here for it.
Billicus wrote: You make the most of a rainy camping weekend, you don't make the most of a massive company screwing around with a product you invest hundreds of hours and potentially thousands of pounds in to trying to enjoy. It's right to expect that your enjoyment is somewhere high on their list of priorities, which this release once again demonstrates it isn't.
So if you don't make the most of it and get the enjoyment you can out of the product, what do you do?
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah we could have just gotten new models and an updated 2.0 rulebook to fix some of the issues like literally everyone wanted.
Instead they choose to make the absolute worst possible design choices and a whole new edition because "we have to every 3 years"
The fact that a massive W was so easily attainable and required far less work and money that the massive L we got is what is so fething frustrating. They deserve all the gak they're getting, people are rightfully pissed and honestly I'm here for it.
I think this just about sums it up?
Well, for me at least, from what we've seen so far...
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah we could have just gotten new models and an updated 2.0 rulebook to fix some of the issues like literally everyone wanted.
Instead they choose to make the absolute worst possible design choices and a whole new edition because "we have to every 3 years"
The fact that a massive W was so easily attainable and required far less work and money that the massive L we got is what is so fething frustrating. They deserve all the gak they're getting, people are rightfully pissed and honestly I'm here for it.
I think this just about sums it up?
Well, for me at least, from what we've seen so far...
I would say so, yeah. This edition seems to be something nobody asked for, but got regardless.
But apparently you can't get pissy about it, because reasons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/07/11 23:00:33
The same reasons you can't have a positive take without being a corporate white knight stomping over people's opinions. It's the internet. Personal attacks and hyperbole are easier than discussing ideas, on any side.
I'm excited for a lot of the core changes, disappointed by the loss of options in the libers, but am hopeful for errata and legacies, plus supplements as more kits get plasticized.
In a few hours all the information should be out fully to look at. I want to see about mechanicum and titans, more than the few teases and mentions of thallax changes
Gert wrote: Iron Warriors - 1x Warsmith (not in Terminator armour so he's been reduced to generic consul, so I would no longer have a Warmsith as I don't have any other models with the right loadout), 1x Terminator Librarian (as far as I am aware, these are gone). Potentially other consuls from this army though I am not 100% sure just yet. Ironically, my Siege Breaker is fine because the model has a Thunderhammer.
Oh dear, I didn’t notice that Terminator Librarians are gone.
I don’t know what Dudeface is trying to say - or if he even genuinely believes it. Models with weapon options that are no longer available to them can’t be fielded in a WYSIWYG environment. Heresy players tend to be fairly strict about this, in my experience. Equally important is the massive reduction in the scope for customising models - a big part of Heresy’s appeal.
It seems very self-limiting to only permit Consuls to take the equipment depicted on the resin models. What if they want to produce different ones?
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
It seems very self-limiting to only permit Consuls to take the equipment depicted on the resin models. What if they want to produce different ones?
Agreed. Limits on consuls are bad. I could see some trims, but only the model is awful.
If they do want to produce new ones, there is nothing stopping them from adding the rules via pdf or journal. Overseers, optae, and a few others were added by expansion books in 2.0 after all.
The joke is on everyone else - can't really take away World Eaters models because they pretty much never made any for us in the first place. Hooray for 20 years of neglect.
I was tempted to get the starter, but I'll just wait until the Hydra AA platform is released separately (and maybe the dreadnought if it gets close combat weapons later)
Got the starter because I love the models and I'm happy enough just painting things up for my EC in my own time, but thoroughly displeased with the way the liber rules have turned out. Very disappointing
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/07/12 05:37:10
Marshal Loss wrote: Got the starter because I love the models and I'm happy enough just painting things up for my EC in my own time, but thoroughly displeased with the way the liber rules have turned out. Very disappointing
If i hadn't picked up the 40kEC(which I was gonna use for my burgeoning SOT era IIIrd) only to have most of the army I've already built(100% rules legal & legit FW/GW product) basically pissed all over. I could easily have had 3x the points & units if I'd have used recasts...now I'm just gonna sail the seas of cheese.
Facepalm GW. I've never even remotely thought of buying a not"gw" thing.
James is stepping over DOLLARS/POUNDS/EURO/YEN to get to dimes(i don't know offhand the breakdown for other currency
To have both 30&40kEC invalidated within 6mo of each other really makes me a sad panda....
Gert wrote: Iron Warriors - 1x Warsmith (not in Terminator armour so he's been reduced to generic consul, so I would no longer have a Warmsith as I don't have any other models with the right loadout), 1x Terminator Librarian (as far as I am aware, these are gone). Potentially other consuls from this army though I am not 100% sure just yet. Ironically, my Siege Breaker is fine because the model has a Thunderhammer.
Oh dear, I didn’t notice that Terminator Librarians are gone.
I don’t know what Dudeface is trying to say - or if he even genuinely believes it. Models with weapon options that are no longer available to them can’t be fielded in a WYSIWYG environment. Heresy players tend to be fairly strict about this, in my experience. Equally important is the massive reduction in the scope for customising models - a big part of Heresy’s appeal.
It seems very self-limiting to only permit Consuls to take the equipment depicted on the resin models. What if they want to produce different ones?
If they can only have the equipment on the resin models, plus customising minis is a core tent pole of the game, what's to stop you customising the mini as long as its readily identifiable.
I 100% believe what I say, it's so frustrating seeing people bang on about how creative and modeller friendly HH is, but then need an official GW stamp of approval for the mini they make. It's an oxymoron.
Gert wrote: Iron Warriors - 1x Warsmith (not in Terminator armour so he's been reduced to generic consul, so I would no longer have a Warmsith as I don't have any other models with the right loadout), 1x Terminator Librarian (as far as I am aware, these are gone). Potentially other consuls from this army though I am not 100% sure just yet. Ironically, my Siege Breaker is fine because the model has a Thunderhammer.
Oh dear, I didn’t notice that Terminator Librarians are gone.
I don’t know what Dudeface is trying to say - or if he even genuinely believes it. Models with weapon options that are no longer available to them can’t be fielded in a WYSIWYG environment. Heresy players tend to be fairly strict about this, in my experience. Equally important is the massive reduction in the scope for customising models - a big part of Heresy’s appeal.
It seems very self-limiting to only permit Consuls to take the equipment depicted on the resin models. What if they want to produce different ones?
If they can only have the equipment on the resin models, plus customising minis is a core tent pole of the game, what's to stop you customising the mini as long as its readily identifiable.
I 100% believe what I say, it's so frustrating seeing people bang on about how creative and modeller friendly HH is, but then need an official GW stamp of approval for the mini they make. It's an oxymoron.
It's not about a "stamp of approval", it's about having the ability to run "your dudes" as "your dudes".
Examples:
My Praetor rocks a jump pack and an Eschaton Power Claw + Lightning Claw, and leads jump pack units.
My Librarian rocks Tartaros armour and leads Tartaros terminators.
Etc, etc.
It's about the customization. Yes, you can still model the minis however you want, but they will no longer function how you want. That bothers many people. If it doesn't bother you, cool. But, understand that everyone isn't after the same experience.
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Yeah we could have just gotten new models and an updated 2.0 rulebook to fix some of the issues like literally everyone wanted.
Instead they choose to make the absolute worst possible design choices and a whole new edition because "we have to every 3 years"
The fact that a massive W was so easily attainable and required far less work and money that the massive L we got is what is so fething frustrating. They deserve all the gak they're getting, people are rightfully pissed and honestly I'm here for it.
Sums up excatly how I feel about the situation. How much time, effort and money have they put into producing this product that the player base just doesn't want? They simply do not understand their customers.
it's the quiet ones you have to look out for. Their the ones that change the world, the loud ones just take the credit for it.
MajorWesJanson wrote: The same reasons you can't have a positive take without being a corporate white knight stomping over people's opinions. It's the internet. Personal attacks and hyperbole are easier than discussing ideas, on any side.
I'm excited for a lot of the core changes, disappointed by the loss of options in the libers, but am hopeful for errata and legacies, plus supplements as more kits get plasticized.
In a few hours all the information should be out fully to look at. I want to see about mechanicum and titans, more than the few teases and mentions of thallax changes
Pretty much a perfect summary.
I’m going to get one Saturnine box because I want those MkII dudes and the dread, but I’m not getting any libers until I’ve had a chance to go over the core rules properly.
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
Just got the journal so far myself, as I can see that being something that will go out of stock. Going to see how things play out. Will likely get the core box as at some point as I’m slowly painting things up. I’m trying to avoid a build up of grey plastic gathering dust in storage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/07/12 09:19:58
It's not about a "stamp of approval", it's about having the ability to run "your dudes" as "your dudes".
