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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF they are free in the app, and the AoS app is reasonably functional.

The 40k app did free point updates for book owners but was still branded a waste of phone storage by people who also bemoaned paying for points updates - people will bash GW apps even for their redeeming features.

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF they are free in the app, and the AoS app is reasonably functional.

The 40k app did free point updates for book owners but was still branded a waste of phone storage by people who also bemoaned paying for points updates - people will bash GW apps even for their redeeming features.

That's a ridiculous argument and you know it. The 40k app was bashed because it was a buggy mess that failed to do its job of being a useful army building tool. It doesn't matter how many free updates it includes if you can't trust that those updates have anything to do with the actual rules of the game.

TL/DR, sensible places will go "oh yeah sure, you can use this and the rules are in this book we have sitting around, tbh we all know what that specific datasheet says anyway" and others will go "no, you can't use it unless you have physically got the book in your hand, hahaha"

Basically the 40k problem in a nutshell.

Tyel wrote:
TL/DR, sensible places will go "oh yeah sure, you can use this and the rules are in this book we have sitting around, tbh we all know what that specific datasheet says anyway" and others will go "no, you can't use it unless you have physically got the book in your hand, hahaha"

Basically the 40k problem in a nutshell.

TL;DR: sensible places will go "we need a copy of the rules because if there's any question about how things work we can't rely on quoting exact details from memory" and others will go "nah, it's fine, we'll make up stuff if there's any question".

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF they are free in the app, and the AoS app is reasonably functional.

The 40k app did free point updates for book owners but was still branded a waste of phone storage by people who also bemoaned paying for points updates - people will bash GW apps even for their redeeming features.

That's a ridiculous argument and you know it. The 40k app was bashed because it was a buggy mess that failed to do its job of being a useful army building tool. It doesn't matter how many free updates it includes if you can't trust that those updates have anything to do with the actual rules of the game.

Lol thank you for proving the point.

Dudeface wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF they are free in the app, and the AoS app is reasonably functional.

The 40k app did free point updates for book owners but was still branded a waste of phone storage by people who also bemoaned paying for points updates - people will bash GW apps even for their redeeming features.

That's a ridiculous argument and you know it. The 40k app was bashed because it was a buggy mess that failed to do its job of being a useful army building tool. It doesn't matter how many free updates it includes if you can't trust that those updates have anything to do with the actual rules of the game.

Lol thank you for proving the point.

...are you trying to claim the app isn't buggy and the point values in the app are accurate? This might be a new level of OpalineTM CrusadingTM.

This whole copyright discussion is a sideshow/diversion from the actual topic and, it seems, is just a way for Dudeface to obfuscate the problems with the book and continue pretending they aren't a big deal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This whole copyright discussion is a sideshow/diversion from the actual topic and, it seems, is just a way for Dudeface to obfuscate the problems with the book and continue pretending they aren't a big deal.

tbf, a lot of responders aren't really helping the issue pretending they're all experts in international copyright law.

Let's see some photos of some law degrees... in another topic, because this one has been beaten to death.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
TBF they are free in the app, and the AoS app is reasonably functional.

The 40k app did free point updates for book owners but was still branded a waste of phone storage by people who also bemoaned paying for points updates - people will bash GW apps even for their redeeming features.

That's a ridiculous argument and you know it. The 40k app was bashed because it was a buggy mess that failed to do its job of being a useful army building tool. It doesn't matter how many free updates it includes if you can't trust that those updates have anything to do with the actual rules of the game.

Lol thank you for proving the point.

...are you trying to claim the app isn't buggy and the point values in the app are accurate? This might be a new level of OpalineTM CrusadingTM.

I used the app the other day because battlescribe has tons of stuff that hasn't updated and it was actually really good. The manual of operations is obviously different but honestly after using it for a full game I'm fully switching over. the quick reference alone makes it worth it. There are a few things in the app that I'm not happy about (like it showing the rules for all the guns not just the one you put on that specific tank). But its so improved sense launch its actually great. Its really nice using an official app too so your never worried about something being worded wrong... its an official GW supported app so nobody can say "show me the real GW rule". I have them all in the palm of my and and can quick reference any book I've added.

What wasn't updated on Battlescribe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also big LOL at GW writing their rules correctly from publication to publication to app.

Asmodios wrote:
its an official GW supported app so nobody can say "show me the real GW rule"

Sure I can. When the app contradicts the book the vast majority of people will consider the app to be in error, and the app has often been wrong like that. Only a handful of fanboys consider the app anything other than a third-party tool that is slightly less reliable than Battlescribe or Wahapedia.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This whole copyright discussion is a sideshow/diversion from the actual topic and, it seems, is just a way for Dudeface to obfuscate the problems with the book and continue pretending they aren't a big deal.

So to outline for you:

- I acknowledged there were problems with the book/release
- I provided suggestions on how to use the invalid miniatures so people could continue to put their beloved minis on the table top
- Despite saying I understand the want to take the relevant pages as pdfs and wouldn't blame anyone, it's not a legal thing to do
- I pointed out the datasheets in the app update correctly, I've never seen one with incorrect points

Yes lots of those are off topic, yes more people than myself in here engage in this conversation.

By all means, please continue to promote piracy, but I'm interested in solutions and people using their models. If all you want to do is never put your chosen or w/e on the table so you can moan until the end of time that's up to you.

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This whole copyright discussion is a sideshow/diversion from the actual topic and, it seems, is just a way for Dudeface to obfuscate the problems with the book and continue pretending they aren't a big deal.

So to outline for you:

- I acknowledged there were problems with the book/release
- I provided suggestions on how to use the invalid miniatures so people could continue to put their beloved minis on the table top
- Despite saying I understand the want to take the relevant pages as pdfs and wouldn't blame anyone, it's not a legal thing to do
- I pointed out the datasheets in the app update correctly, I've never seen one with incorrect points

Yes lots of those are off topic, yes more people than myself in here engage in this conversation.

By all means, please continue to promote piracy, but I'm interested in solutions and people using their models. If all you want to do is never put your chosen or w/e on the table so you can moan until the end of time that's up to you.

You miss the point so beautifully, your own points are somewhere in depths of the Indian Ocean.

Let me explain something simple to you:

When GW removes an option from the rules and the models, the implication is usually that going forward, those options will no longer be sold or supported. What does it mean when an option isn't supported? It means that, over time, it becomes more and more difficult for even a casual gamer to include those unsupported things in their gameplay. This can (and has) happened to everything from Warhammer to DnD, and has even happened in the realm of video games. When something ceases to be supported, a lot of times the community as a whole simply goes along with it.

Your suggestions are falling on deaf ears because the owners of those ears have seen this played out before already. Let's take, for instance, the Rule of 3. What was the response when GW limited everyone to 3 of everything (and 1 of certain things)? It was outrage! Not because they couldn't play with their models, but because the hundreds, potentially even thousands of dollars they invested, along with time and energy to build and paint those models, was made that much less valuable. Not that it was worthless, if you want to get pedantic about it. "Narrative play you can play with all those things!" you shout in another avenue of pedantery, but again that ignores the time and effort that someone put into their collection, thinking all along, for good or ill, that they would be able to play with the models they bought.

Not only do we have Rule of 3, now we have a slew of things that have limited and changed a butt-load of models in a lot of people's collections of Chaos Space Marines. Again, hundreds of dollars and hours in building and painting their collections. In order to make their squads 'legal' some people will either need to chop apart their models or buy new ones, when ultimately none of that would have been necessary if GW had found another way of supporting the product that they sell, either by adding more bits into their boxes (additional sprues of options) or by expanding the rules with a designers note about the legacy of some of those models. We know they can do it. They do it with 30k and Necromunda all the time, and have for a decade.

So when you come along suggesting your little 'fixes', you come off as obnoxious. You come off as trying to give people a half-baked solution. Well you know what? Maybe we don't want your solution. To you, it may seem reasonable, and we must all feel very unreasonable to you, but to us you come across as an obnoxious gnat that's buzzing around our faces as we try to enjoy our beer and sorrow in solidarity with others that are inconvenienced by these changes.

So buzz off.

Dudeface wrote:
By all means, please continue to promote piracy...

I haven't talked about that at all, so go beat that strawman somewhere else.

drbored wrote:


So when you come along suggesting your little 'fixes', you come off as obnoxious. You come off as trying to give people a half-baked solution. Well you know what? Maybe we don't want your solution. To you, it may seem reasonable, and we must all feel very unreasonable to you, but to us you come across as an obnoxious gnat that's buzzing around our faces as we try to enjoy our beer and sorrow in solidarity with others that are inconvenienced by these changes.

So buzz off.

I'm so sorry that you feel so inconvenienced that you have to be hostile and so apathetic you'd rather store/bin/sell the models you've spent hundreds of dollars on.

I will leave you all to wallow in your whining in that case.


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
By all means, please continue to promote piracy...

I haven't talked about that at all, so go beat that strawman somewhere else.

It was a generalistic response but not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

Dudeface wrote:
... not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

No it fething isn't, and don't you dare start that gak here.

That's like saying that liking Darth Vader means you're A-OK with child murder.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
... not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

No it fething isn't, and don't you dare start that gak here.

That's like saying that liking Darth Vader means you're A-OK with child murder.

Except the inadequately enforced forum rules are to not promote piracy, which this thread has. If it wasn't to be challenged, the rule wouldn't exist.

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
... not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

No it fething isn't, and don't you dare start that gak here.

That's like saying that liking Darth Vader means you're A-OK with child murder.

Except the inadequately enforced forum rules are to not promote piracy, which this thread has. If it wasn't to be challenged, the rule wouldn't exist.

And I won't dare oppose piracy and until GW gets their act together, why do you care?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
... not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

No it fething isn't, and don't you dare start that gak here.

That's like saying that liking Darth Vader means you're A-OK with child murder.

Except the inadequately enforced forum rules are to not promote piracy, which this thread has. If it wasn't to be challenged, the rule wouldn't exist.

And I won't dare oppose piracy and until GW gets their act together, why do you care?

Moral compass & forum rules, the fact you've not had a suspension for these sorts of comments is kinda the point.

To be fair, you are the one who dragged this topic into piracy waters when you insisted that making photocopies is not an option for anyone because a certain way of interpreting UK laws might say so.

And that was just one item of obtaining the rules *without resorting to piracy* on a list.

 Jidmah wrote:
To be fair, you are the one who dragged this topic into piracy waters when you insisted that making photocopies is not an option for anyone because a certain way of interpreting UK laws might say so.

And that was just one item of obtaining the rules *without resorting to piracy* on a list.

It came about with people complaining (rightly) that they didn't want to spend £90 to use their cult units.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Hecaton wrote:
Nah, that's legal in the US. The information contained within isn't classified lol.

Lolwut? I assume you mean copyrighted, not classified, but yes, the book is absolutely copyrighted.

No, my point is that it's not illegal to hand copy the information out of it. It's not illegal to know what it contains.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dudeface wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Copying a single page to solely avoid buying a book for no better reason than saving money is a violation as per those exceptions.

Except that perspective matters in this case, I'm copying a page to fairly use a product I already own, namely Plague Marines in this example. I have a hard time imagining a more legitimate argument for 'Fair dealing'.

Honestly, at this point, you're arguing semantics out of spite.

I bought 10 litres of fuel, better go get a free car to get fair use of it. I bought an eldar codex, better to help myself to some kits to get fair use from it. I bought a pan, better go get a free hob to make fair use of it.

I'm not arguing semantics out of spite, you're seemingly endorsing pirating out of ignorance.

Stop simping for corporations. It's insufferable.


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Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
... not challenging the concept is encouraging it.

No it fething isn't, and don't you dare start that gak here.

That's like saying that liking Darth Vader means you're A-OK with child murder.

Except the inadequately enforced forum rules are to not promote piracy, which this thread has. If it wasn't to be challenged, the rule wouldn't exist.

And I won't dare oppose piracy and until GW gets their act together, why do you care?

Moral compass & forum rules, the fact you've not had a suspension for these sorts of comments is kinda the point.

Supporting modern IP laws' overreach is the opposite of moral. If you want to admit to being a cuck for capital holders don't expect the rest of us to see it as laudable.

It's not a perfect solution either, but you could also cut/copy the datasheets from the old codex and update the few changes to them with pen or stickers.

Don't get me wrong, cult troops should just be PDFs for download on the warCom page. But as long as that isn't happening, using a meh legal solution is still superior to paying GW for two extra codices and a white dwarf.

Vatsetis wrote:
I find completelly hilarious the copyright talk in Dakka when its almost impossible (without expending a considerable amount of money on a sub par, short life pile of printed material, which is NOT RATIONAL from an economic POV) to follow current 40K meta with out resorting to somesort of illegal piracy.

Perhaps 80 or 90% of players do digital piracy... Pretending that this is not the default way in which 40K players get access to the rules in 2022 is like pretending that most adults dont exercise "self-love" just because its inmoral or even ilegal in some countries.

If the rules on the door say you have to wear a shirt, you need to wear a shirt, even if the store is located in a nudist colony.

Not speaking out against something is 100% not the same thing as condoning something. People need to get that through their skulls.

And, again, the piracy diversion does nothing but steer us away from the actual topic.

 Jidmah wrote:

Vatsetis wrote:
I find completelly hilarious the copyright talk in Dakka when its almost impossible (without expending a considerable amount of money on a sub par, short life pile of printed material, which is NOT RATIONAL from an economic POV) to follow current 40K meta with out resorting to somesort of illegal piracy.

Perhaps 80 or 90% of players do digital piracy... Pretending that this is not the default way in which 40K players get access to the rules in 2022 is like pretending that most adults dont exercise "self-love" just because its inmoral or even ilegal in some countries.

If the rules on the door say you have to wear a shirt, you need to wear a shirt, even if the store is located in a nudist colony.

Sure, some one can indeed organice their business against the most basic business logic and rationale.

Do actual LGS and Tournamenr exist that enforce every player to go to play 40k with a personal official copy of the 4/6 books you actually need to play? Do they expell you from the venue if you print your list from battleacribe or check wahapedia in your phone?

Never find such thing in the 20 odd tournament venues In which I have been playing 40K during 8th and 9th.

Sure, I knew one adult once that said he did have sex with his long tern GF and neither masturbates... It was weird, but not exactly a relevant nor healthy attitude towards personal relationships.

An BTW this is hardly OT sonce the OP question is hardly answerable in a meaningfull way.

The owners of this forum have asked us to not promote piracy, therefore it should not be promoted. It's as simple as that.

If you don't agree with those rules, maybe you should be taking all that talk about masturbation to a different 40k community.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
its an official GW supported app so nobody can say "show me the real GW rule"

Sure I can. When the app contradicts the book the vast majority of people will consider the app to be in error, and the app has often been wrong like that. Only a handful of fanboys consider the app anything other than a third-party tool that is slightly less reliable than Battlescribe or Wahapedia.

I haven’t run into a single case yet where the rule I looked up wasn’t a carbon copy of one in the dex (obviously there could be errors I don’t ply every army and I haven’t looked up every rule). But even if I did come by a rule that wasn’t 100% the same as what was in the book I’m still using a GW official product so I wouldn’t feel bad if it was messed up. It’s not like I’m printing off random rules from the internet and claiming they are accurate. Obviously it’s all personal opinion and I was one of the people that gave it a terrible review when it first dropped. But when I used it the other week other then a few minor things like all weapons on data cards I found it really good

 Jidmah wrote:
The owners of this forum have asked us to not promote piracy, therefore it should not be promoted. It's as simple as that.

If you don't agree with those rules, maybe you should be taking all that talk about masturbation to a different 40k community.

Exactly how Im promoting piracy? Just because I recognized that something exist dosent mean I endorse it or promoted in any manner.

Just quoting statistics about teenagers pregnancy dosent mean I thing being a teen mom is a desirable outcome.

Extended Digital Piracy is indeed a very bad situation for the community. Hope GW could be more consumer friendly like Corvus Belli and others so we didnt have to have this surreal talks.

Apparently some people believe that reality desapears just by ignoring it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Asmodios wrote:

CadianSgtBob wrote:

Asmodios wrote:
its an official GW supported app so nobody can say "show me the real GW rule"

Sure I can. When the app contradicts the book the vast majority of people will consider the app to be in error, and the app has often been wrong like that. Only a handful of fanboys consider the app anything other than a third-party tool that is slightly less reliable than Battlescribe or Wahapedia.

I haven’t run into a single case yet where the rule I looked up wasn’t a carbon copy of one in the dex (obviously there could be errors I don’t ply every army and I haven’t looked up every rule). But even if I did come by a rule that wasn’t 100% the same as what was in the book I’m still using a GW official product so I wouldn’t feel bad if it was messed up. It’s not like I’m printing off random rules from the internet and claiming they are accurate. Obviously it’s all personal opinion and I was one of the people that gave it a terrible review when it first dropped. But when I used it the other week other then a few minor things like all weapons on data cards I found it really good

Nice to see the App is getting better. How much those it cost?

I’m not sure if it still has a cost. I have warhammer plus though so I guess it could technically fall under that? So I’m really not sure if anything is stuck behind a pay wall