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Hasn't the IoM treated past encounters with tech advanced humans with their typical xenophobic mindset and outright scorched earthd them?

Also, hooray, another Imperium army. I haven't really been following the lore, just now realized a bunch of models have been shown.

No the Imperium tends to try to absorb them to gain their tech.
Also no the Leagues aren't an Imperial faction, they are human-derived but not Imperial aligned.

So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

I honestly find the League’s vehicles to be unimaginative. That said I’ll admit I don’t like any of the line or the faction itself so I’m probably biased.

Y'all are just bitter that the model is going to waste so much plastic on two drivers and two cockpits.

I mean, we all know how many tournament forces are going to have "tinted" cockpits...

I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

Embarrassing design looks like a remote control moonbuggy. It becomes even more embarrassing when they claim its a transport. Like come on you can explain away the arechaoopter becuse admech can probably fold up but where the hell are they going to put all the dwarfs? This faction dosent look to belong in the setting. 40k artist need to look twords making things gritty and realistic they need to knock it off with all this snow white cartoon design garbage we can get that anywhere I want gime dark and I want it to look plasable.


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They may as well be imperial they are just offshoot humans that haven't fallen to chaos so basically imperialis just lame er


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Also they make no sense? Been around for thousands of years but haven't been absorbed or destroyed by the Imperium? Like wtf this isent dumb ass age of sigmar where ne faction can just sprout up anywhere.

My main issue with this model is that I keep seeing this LEGO kit every time I go to one of my local supermarkets, and what has been seen cannot be unseen...

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

Yes I see what you mean. Look at all those runes and mining paraphernalia.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.


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 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

You call that the “classic” but to us old sweats, that’s a new-fangled notion that everything must fit into those brackets. The classic idea is that everything is bad and everything is a threat. Squats or the leagues as they were known back then (not just votann) were always set aside from the imperium, but not against it. This isn’t new lore breaking fluff, it was ever thus. They have just fleshed out the squat back ground and redesigned the look. The fundamentals are he same.

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.

Considering what's being discussed is the look of the Leagues/Squats...yeah, it would be the place to mention the level of ornamentation.

That vehicle, to me looks amazing, I know it’s all subjective but I like the 60s moonbuggy vibe, it fits with what we have seen so far of them, it isn’t like anything else in the setting. I love the rugged thick tubed chassis exposed, like an exo-chassis if you will. My only issue is the heavy bolter things sticking out in front but I will clip them back and have sit behind the armour plate on the floor pan, easy. They don’t look fixed to me but mounted on a small turret but time will tell on that one. It’s bloody brilliant. I wasn’t 100% on the trike, that felt like the were trying for nostalgia too much.


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 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

Don’t bring your belt buckle crap to this thread too, not the place.

Why, are you going to misconstrue what's said as usual? And considering what's being discussed is the look of the Leagues/Squats...yeah, it would be the place to mention the level of ornamentation.

You already have the news and rumours page to discuss that at length, and do. No need derail every thread with your desire for Celtic knot work and ornate belt buckles. As for misconstruing your statement, I was being deliberately flippant - but 90 pages of you asking for the LoV to have more dwarf stuff on them is plenty thanks.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a proper space dwarf, is there? But the use of the term space dwarf or dwarfs in space , with squats refers to the fact that the original squats didn’t really have any purpose other than to move the full fantasy race clichés into the sci-fi setting. The LOV have purpose and forethought for existing in the 40K universe (it seems so far). However these guys look pretty fantasy dwarfs in space. Axes beards, heavy machinery, hammer sigils reflective their culture of practical labour and so on. Perhaps it was better reflected better in Epic 40K where I think squats were more of a presence




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Oh and don’t forget the hatred of Orcs and goblins

mrFickle wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I like the fact that that GW haven’t gone the usual space dwarfs, runic, makers of things, mining, steampunk route. I feel it’s been done a lot across many franchises.

Not saying GW are being really original in the look of the LOV but they never are, all armies are full of borrowed ideas.

But I like that, to some extent, the LOV are what the imperium could have been if they hadn’t been so insane

I can't recall every seeing proper space dwarfs anywhere. If you google "space dwarf" it just shows you pictures that look like...well they look like its where GW got its Votann designs from, honestly.

Squats

In what way did they look like proper Space Dwarfs? Only their leaders and massive superheavy vehicles had any Dwarf ornamentation.

I don’t think there is such a thing as a proper space dwarf, is there? But the use of the term space dwarf or dwarfs in space , with squats refers to the fact that the original squats didn’t really have any purpose other than to move the full fantasy race clichés into the sci-fi setting. The LOV have purpose and forethought for existing in the 40K universe (it seems so far). However these guys look pretty fantasy dwarfs in space. Axes beards, heavy machinery, hammer sigils reflective their culture of practical labour and so on. Perhaps it was better reflected better in Epic 40K where I think squats were more of a presence

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Oh and don’t forget the hatred of Orcs and goblins

There shouldn't really a distinction between how a "Fantasy Dwarf" and "Space Dwarf" should be though. They're both based on the same Dwarf Archetype, the cultural and aesthetic side of them should be broadly similar because they're just what makes them Dwarfs.

The Leagues are definitely still just as much Space Dwarfs as the Squats were in terms of their lore; a race of short hardy stoic bearded "humans" with very long lives, who are master craftsmen, engineers and Miners, who reverse their ancestors and are proud of their heritage with their culture being an important part of their society, who hold grudges, dislike Elves and enjoy drinking beer, use Norse-mythology based names and have aesthetics that involve Nordic patterns, runes, other bits of elaborate metalwork and even have the same sort of Dwarf Head icon as WHFB Dwarfs, AOS Fyreslayers and Kharadron.

It's just, for some reason, the Dwarf side of their look has been minimized to such as extent it feels like it's just been stuck on as an afterthought. I think the Gambesons, hats, coats, various sigils and badges etc of the original Squats do give across much more of a gritty, hardy, stoic Space Dwarf feel compared to the high-tech look of the Leagues. Even Grendl felt much better and he is a mix of both the Leagues and the Classic Squat aesthetics.

I’m impressed by its design.

It clearly looks Imperial Adjacent, as it should as they do share a broadly common lineage.

But, it looks like a Mission Specific Design, rather than an adaptation of something else as we so often see in Imperial Vehicles.

Lots of interesting little design cues, sharing elements with Van Saar, but also that Ad Mech Flyer’s canopy.

Most impressively those design cues don’t result in a mishmash, but a unique looking whole.

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

I kind of like the idea of a human-like but not Imperium faction.

Their design looks more like "modern sci-fi", similar to how Tau has a very sleek "futuristic military" feel compared to the Imperium.

The Leagues are sleek because that's what DAoT humanity used.
The Imperium uses poor imitations and jury-rigged repairs of that tech whereas the Leagues are using the hard copy versions. It's a look at what humanity was compared to what the Imperium became.

I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

I for one welcome our new "Stuff" overlords.

Or they can drop that silly faction keyword thing and go back to how it was prior to 8th ed. It was a lot more free-form back then.

The faction keyword is only really relevant to imperials anyway because they have a ridiculous number of sub-factions, and that could just be addressed with a simple "Forces of the Imperium" rule instead of a keyword.

Leagues of Votann are starting to look like a modern StarCom re-boot to me.

I think I finally figured out what the new squad vehicle looks like, at least to me, the MT-101 Armoured Mining Unit:



Like, scale it down a bit and it's almost exactly the same.


And this got me thinking, I honestly would like the squats more if they went a more Lego Mars Mission route, you get mining, classic astronaut aesthetic, and heavily armed all at once. Some examples:



First example, the MT-21 Mobile Mining unit. It's small, and designed primarily for drilling with a rocket-launcher just in case. This would perfectly work as a light transport, carrying a squad or so and deploying them quickly. It's clearly mining equipment, but it's armed enough that it can be used in a military role. It also has a deployable robot, (or in the Votaan's case, an ironkin) and I'm sure rules can be made for that.



Or this one, the MT-61 Crystal Reaper. It's a large tracked vehicle, with saws/scoops for crushing and scooping up rubble, ores, etc, and small grappling arms. In addition, it's got guns and missiles on-top. It's cockpit can also turn into a tiny jet for escape purposes. This could be a neat unit-gimmick, perhaps once you kill the vehicle, the jet deploys, denying the enemy kill VP or secondaries until you kill the little jet too. The same could be done for the little truck that rides in the back.

In the end, this brings me to my main point, this is what the Votaan should have been, IMO. If you pitched to me: "Space dwarf miners in 40k, that are more advanced than the Imperium, with a classic astronaut look", this is where my head would be at. Heavy mining equipment, armed to the teeth, and ready to crush and destroy anyone who gets in the way of payday. I mean, they even have a trike for crying out loud!



Heck, all this mining gear could give them a unique niche of melee vehicles, a niche that hasn't been tapped much. I can only think of 2-3 factions that have actual melee weapons on their vehicles (orks, GSC and guard if you count termites and the Hades breaching drill) and even then, none of that really defines their vehicles. Votaan vehicles loaded up with drills, rock-cutters and more would be striking to me, and would give them a unique gameplay niche. Maybe have smaller deployable vehicles on the big rigs further giving them a niche in gameplay.

I geuss what this long-rambling post is trying to say, is that, while I don't necessarily dislike this new direction, my goodness is the execution bland.

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

Aw man Mars Mission. Good times.

ccs wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

This is an interesting point, although LOV are incredibly secretive about many things there’s no reaso. To believe that they aren’t in good terms and maybe even live along side some alien species like the tau. Ones that are particularly suited to living near the core. Could make for some interesting additions to their army.

ccs wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
I like the moon buggy well enough as its own thing. It's hardly the best vehicle GW ever made. My choice for that would be the Vindicator or Spartan.

 Gert wrote:

 Blndmage wrote:
So, I wonder where they sit the the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos?
Do we have our first UNALIGNED faction, finally?

Yeah? That was one of the first things GW said the faction would be. It could align with the Imperium (not sure about certain Xenos) but it was very much not part of the Imperium.

Maybe GW will expand "the classic 40k triumvirate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos" to the new, improved and instant classic 40k quadharumphiate of Imperium, Chaos, Xenos and Stuff. You know, just to avoid having to deal with unforeseen interactions with the Unaligned keyword that's only been used for terrain so far.

There's also a # of units/models from Blackstone Fortress that have the "Unaligned" KW. The Zoat, the Ambull, the Boreworm infestation, two types of drones.....

Good to know. I never had a reason to look at their rules. Heh, I never even saw the Zoat in stock. I might have actually bought one.