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I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:

johnpjones1775 wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I seriously doubt most players are "immersed" in their games. "Immersion" means that you see yourself on the battle field and that you are acting out your fantasy on the gaming table. I somehow doubt that people are really doing that while at the same time firing their tanks turret weapon at someone when the only part of their tank that can "see" that target is the last millimeter of their front left tread. Likewise I fail so see how they can, and do, fire their left hull mounted sponson at a target that is only visible to the vehicle's right side. But that's OK it doesn't interfere with their immersion. It's just the horror of seeing unpainted/underpainted model across from them that destroys their fantasy in their toy soldier games.

I have no problem with you wanting to use the finest paint jobs you can get on your figures. If you don't want to play against a grey army then that's fine. It's a hobby and everyone has different levels of enjoyment. But at least man up and admit that in this game of toy soldiers you're acting like a child and that's all there is to it. Don't try to hide behind a flimsy excuse like "Your unpainted minis totally destroy my immersion in the game".

Just for transparency- I started playing at a store that allowed you to use your models unpainted for 3 weeks. After that it was expected that they would at least meet the 3 color level of painting. I still abide by that standard even though I no longer go to that store and that was 20 years ago. I don't have so much of my ego invested in my toys that I would turn down playing someone due to the paint status of their models.

the sponson question is pretty simple, the tank pivots 180 degrees...

how did that store really enforce that rule.
employee "oh those marines havent been painted for 3 weeks, can't use them."
customer "this is a whole new squad you see, and this is the first time i've used them."
employee "...nuh-uh."

i love how people try to come off as understanding and then jump to ad hominem attacks...good job.

As to the store, yeah, the owner would come over and ask why you hadn't painted your figures yet. If you didn't have a real excuse then he asked you to take the figures off of the table. If you said no then he asked you to leave. His philosophy was that painted figures catch people's attention and from there you get more sales. So to him it was a matter of advertising. Everyone in the store knew it and accepted it as the price of playing in his store.

And your reading is a little slipshod. If the model isn't moving then how does your "immersion" cover that a stationary figure pivots? If you can imagine that and still maintain your immersion then you should have no problem picturing your opponents army wearing an appropriate outfit/color pattern. Hypocrisy much?

And, for the record, I wasn't attacking anyone. I was stating my belief just like the people above me were stating their beliefs.

imagining 1 tank pivoting, vs, imagining a whole ass color scheme on an entire army, yep, that's totally the same thing.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

One side of this discussion is being crass and at times downright rude. That side just accused the other side of being unfriendly. Also the same side that gets threads locked by spoofing them any time they see something they don't want to read...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

I'll take that bet, and your money.

Seriously, not cool.

johnpjones1775 wrote:
imagining 1 tank pivoting, vs, imagining a whole ass color scheme on an entire army, yep, that's totally the same thing.

It's not just one tank. It's one tank this turn, a squad of troops that turn, a character another turn. So, yeah, to me it's pretty much the same thing. Unless your imagination is limited in scope/scale then I can see your problem. Besides that in your immersion all you'd be looking at would be 1 troop, 1 tank or, 1 character at a time. I guess you can't watch black and white movies/TV shows either. The lack of color must drive you nuts when you're trying to immerse yourself in the story.

Deadnight wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

I'll take that bet, and your money.

Seriously, not cool.

LOL okay then. Based on your earlier post I'm gathering you'd lose money.

I dont have requirements for any other players bc not everyone enjoys it, has time for it, or even capable to do it and it is not my place to tell them how to spend their time. Paint literally has no meaning or purpose to the game, so why would I care?

I like my armies painted and I try to paint them, I personally have something like 10k points painted but I dont always play with painted models.

I don't care, but I always will encourage painted armies. It makes everything better. But I won't turn someone down from a game if theirs aren't.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

That's surprising.... i find that every person that has a fully painted army tends to be a blast to play against and it typically playing something they really enjoy and not just the FOTM sitting there across from you. Where i live its the people that show up week in and week out with no progress and grey miniatures in a shoebox that people tend to avoid.

The really comical part about these posts is all the people upset that someone wouldn't want to play against you, are the ones thinking other people are jerks. Imagine thinking someone should be forced to play you in a boardgame are the "nice ones". Honestly, it just comes off as throwing a tantrum because some people like a cinematic nice looking game. For all the people saying "i dont have time to paint an army" you re 100% right.... time is very limited. Why would i take that valuable time and play a dull game against a sea of grey when i can match up with someone who clearly enjoys parts of the hobby i enjoy?

Asmodios wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

That's surprising.... i find that every person that has a fully painted army tends to be a blast to play against and it typically playing something they really enjoy and not just the FOTM sitting there across from you. Where i live its the people that show up week in and week out with no progress and grey miniatures in a shoebox that people tend to avoid.

The really comical part about these posts is all the people upset that someone wouldn't want to play against you, are the ones thinking other people are jerks. Imagine thinking someone should be forced to play you in a boardgame are the "nice ones". Honestly, it just comes off as throwing a tantrum because some people like a cinematic nice looking game. For all the people saying "i dont have time to paint an army" you re 100% right.... time is very limited. Why would i take that valuable time and play a dull game against a sea of grey when i can match up with someone who clearly enjoys parts of the hobby i enjoy?

The issue is with the people labeling people who don’t want to paint as lazy and not dedicated enough to something meant to be fun.

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

That's surprising.... i find that every person that has a fully painted army tends to be a blast to play against and it typically playing something they really enjoy and not just the FOTM sitting there across from you. Where i live its the people that show up week in and week out with no progress and grey miniatures in a shoebox that people tend to avoid.

The really comical part about these posts is all the people upset that someone wouldn't want to play against you, are the ones thinking other people are jerks. Imagine thinking someone should be forced to play you in a boardgame are the "nice ones". Honestly, it just comes off as throwing a tantrum because some people like a cinematic nice looking game. For all the people saying "i dont have time to paint an army" you re 100% right.... time is very limited. Why would i take that valuable time and play a dull game against a sea of grey when i can match up with someone who clearly enjoys parts of the hobby i enjoy?

The issue is with the people labeling people who don’t want to paint as lazy and not dedicated enough to something meant to be fun.

Ahhhh yes its the people who should be forced to play that are doing the labeling..... "I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly."

Well, this thread has lasted longer than I thought it would. Guess I'll throw my two cents in. While I personally prefer to have my own stuff fully painted before putting it on the table, I don't really care if my opponent has all (or any) of their own stuff painted. That doesn't really affect whether I have any fun or not, personally.

I paint each and every single one of my models to my highest standard possible, but I don't require my opponent to do the same. They could be playing with unpainted models all they want. I do find the games to be more enjoyable when everything is painted well, but it's not a requirement.

I paint my models but I don't expect anyone else to.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
LOL okay then. Based on your earlier post I'm gathering you'd lose money.

Nah I'm good. Plenty friendly - irish after all and its basically written into our dna. +2CHR bonus and loads of extra perks in chat, banter, anecdotes and pint-downing.

I just don't appreciate prople throwing around mental health slurs like 'unstable' at folks. If that makes me 'unfriendly', *shrug*

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:
The issue is with the people labeling people who don’t want to paint as lazy and not dedicated enough to something meant to be fun.

I mean, fair. But I also remember the poster in question referring to themselves as also lazy.

And for what ita worth, 'the issue' is more than pro-painting using the word 'lazy'.

For example, i find the use of the term 'supremacists' used in previous pages with regard to people who prefer painted as particularly vile. Its a dog whistle. It's a particularly vulgar misappropriation of a term most typically associated with the word 'white' and used in the context of nazis. 'Absolutists' is another doozy. That's like, appropriate for maybe one poster, and everyone else is being tarred by proxy.

Abs to be fair that's also hardly the only insult or slur thrown about - we've seen things from. Individual posters claiming 'gatekeeping', 'snobs', 'hostile', 'unethical', posts mischaracterising and sneering at encoragement of painting as 'sadism' and willing suffering on people, claiming those who value painting do so only out of 'resentment, jealousy and regret' against those who dont who are showing backbone for refusing (another dog whistle implying those who paint are cowards). then theres terms like 'unstable' and 'weak' that's been banded about at polonius and other pro-painting posters.


I mean, youre not wrong about lazy but maybe consider if it's worth saying that the other stuff said also needs to be called out?

'Lazy' can be a thing, perfectly fair to call it out if real (lets face it we've all been on a team where the lazy person dragged everythind down), it's also perfectly fair to be annoyed about it if its misplaced. As per my first post here, plenty legit reasons why people can't paint (disability, age, other priorities like kids etc), it's still not wrong for folks to find it devalues their experience too, or to see it/value it or encourage it as something aspirational.

To the people who don't want to paint the minis:

do you also hate assembly and would you rather buy ready to go minis?

So if a 3rd party made GW compatible models that have a bit of colour on them and were monopole would you buy them?

mrFickle wrote:
To the people who don't want to paint the minis:

do you also hate assembly and would you rather buy ready to go minis?

So if a 3rd party made GW compatible models that have a bit of colour on them and were monopole would you buy them?

Tbf with how little customisation GW is enouraging with newer kits and rules, pre-assembled monopose models would probably make a lot more sense.
Just look at the new cultist kit

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
To the people who don't want to paint the minis:

do you also hate assembly and would you rather buy ready to go minis?

So if a 3rd party made GW compatible models that have a bit of colour on them and were monopole would you buy them?

Tbf with how little customisation GW is enouraging with newer kits and rules, pre-assembled monopose models would probably make a lot more sense.
Just look at the new cultist kit

that's a fair point. I just think there is a market out there for ready made models so let em ask another question:

If I bought the mini's, assembled them, primed them and dipped/contrast them and did a basic amount of details and setup an Etsy shop to sell them would the non painters be willing to pay some level of markup for these minis assuming the paint job was respectable. I am in no way good enough to sell painted minis like the people who sell a full painting service but then of course they charge a lot of money. but a presentable 3 colours isn't difficult

would it be worth an extra £15 per unit to have some colour on them, would that be preferable to playing with grey plastic?

mrFickle wrote:
To the people who don't want to paint the minis:

do you also hate assembly and would you rather buy ready to go minis?

So if a 3rd party made GW compatible models that have a bit of colour on them and were monopole would you buy them?

Maybe, depends.

I really like assembling models and even magnetizing and converting them, so I wouldn't buy models like vehicles and characters from them.

Basic infantry though? It'd totally buy ready to go boyz, lootas, plague marines, intercessors or poxwalkers.

Heck, it's not even a fictional thing - I did buy a friend's collection for the sole reason of gaining 150 fully painted boyz and sold ~60 unpainted boyz of mine immediately afterwards.
I guess the biggest issue is paying a markup on the already super-expensive models.

Pre-painted sprues would be perfect for me. I'd even gladly fix the damage to the paint job done by glue and pliers, as long as I don't have to paint the entire box.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I am betting dollars to donuts most of the "Must paint" crowd are never called for games at the Friendly Local, because they forget to bring the friendly.

I'll take that bet, and your money.

Seriously, not cool.

LOL okay then. Based on your earlier post I'm gathering you'd lose money.

And if your personality IRL is anything like how you come across posting on here, I'd be very surprised to find that you get any games outside of tournaments, and taking hostages at gunpoint.

A LGS that prevents people from playing with unpainted minis seems quite extreme.

Seems quite a bit of an internet hoax/hiperbole for the shake of winning a chat discussion.

I have yet to see a FLGS or even a WH store actually enforce the painted points rule

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have yet to see a FLGS or even a WH store actually enforce the painted points rule

The biggest effect of the painted points rule is that you keep getting "wElL, aKsHuAlLy..." 'ed after a close game, which I have started to understand as an invitation to completely curb-stomp that player next game with as much grey plastic as I can muster to ensure that the player is getting as much enjoyment from gaming as I get from painting.

 Jidmah wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have yet to see a FLGS or even a WH store actually enforce the painted points rule

The biggest effect of the painted points rule is that you keep getting "wElL, aKsHuAlLy..." 'ed after a close game, which I have started to understand as an invitation to completely curb-stomp that player next game with as much grey plastic as I can muster to ensure that the player is getting as much enjoyment from gaming as I get from painting.

...and we're sure it's the people in the pro-painting camp that are the unpleasant ones?

 Jidmah wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I have yet to see a FLGS or even a WH store actually enforce the painted points rule

The biggest effect of the painted points rule is that you keep getting "wElL, aKsHuAlLy..." 'ed after a close game, which I have started to understand as an invitation to completely curb-stomp that player next game with as much grey plastic as I can muster to ensure that the player is getting as much enjoyment from gaming as I get from painting.

Sounds more like the person is tallying up their points and your getting mad that they painted their army and thus benefit from additional points. They should have just known not to be such an absolute jerk following the rules. I hope you teach them a valuable lesson… when you are done with them they will know better then to take points they have earned (I bet after that smashing they will be beyond excited for the next guy with a grey army that wants a game)… I’m sure instances like this have nothing to do with why some people avoid unpainted armies

Asmodios wrote:

Sounds more like the person is tallying up their points and your getting mad that they painted their army and thus benefit from additional points. They should have just known not to be such an absolute jerk following the rules. I hope you teach them a valuable lesson… when you are done with them they will know better then to take points they have earned (I bet after that smashing they will be beyond excited for the next guy with a grey army that wants a game… I’m sure instances like this have nothing to do with why some people avoid unpainted armies

paintjob should have zero impact of the points in a game. The game should be purely determined from the skill of the players as generals.

If you want your paintjob to give you points, join the "best painted" part of the tournament with it

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Sounds more like the person is tallying up their points and your getting mad that they painted their army and thus benefit from additional points. They should have just known not to be such an absolute jerk following the rules. I hope you teach them a valuable lesson… when you are done with them they will know better then to take points they have earned (I bet after that smashing they will be beyond excited for the next guy with a grey army that wants a game… I’m sure instances like this have nothing to do with why some people avoid unpainted armies

paintjob should have zero impact of the points in a game. The game should be purely determined from the skill of the players as generals.

If you want your paintjob to give you points, join the "best painted" part of the tournament with it

"should" and "does" are not the same thing - you agreed to play a game, that VP structure of which currently "does" include painting as a tertiary objective.

Not the opponent's fault that Jid didn't choose to play to that objective, and it seems a bit off to then be vengeful when as a result of the game doesn't go his way.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Sounds more like the person is tallying up their points and your getting mad that they painted their army and thus benefit from additional points. They should have just known not to be such an absolute jerk following the rules. I hope you teach them a valuable lesson… when you are done with them they will know better then to take points they have earned (I bet after that smashing they will be beyond excited for the next guy with a grey army that wants a game… I’m sure instances like this have nothing to do with why some people avoid unpainted armies

paintjob should have zero impact of the points in a game. The game should be purely determined from the skill of the players as generals.

If you want your paintjob to give you points, join the "best painted" part of the tournament with it

Yup me and this other guy should have known we were just being unreasonable using the rule book. Could you let me know any other unofficial things I should know going into a game against a stranger? Any secondary’s or missions you don’t like your highness

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Asmodios wrote:

Sounds more like the person is tallying up their points and your getting mad that they painted their army and thus benefit from additional points. They should have just known not to be such an absolute jerk following the rules. I hope you teach them a valuable lesson… when you are done with them they will know better then to take points they have earned (I bet after that smashing they will be beyond excited for the next guy with a grey army that wants a game… I’m sure instances like this have nothing to do with why some people avoid unpainted armies

paintjob should have zero impact of the points in a game. The game should be purely determined from the skill of the players as generals.

If you want your paintjob to give you points, join the "best painted" part of the tournament with it

Well rather wallet as 40k isn't skill game. Painting requires more skill than game.

But you win by rules. 10 pts for painted is part of rules. Valid to win by that. If it annoys to lose by that git gud if you can't paint your models accept you are giving up 10 pts. Why you shouldn't be punished while others is punished for not having cash to follow gw's marketing strategy for what's op? Skill? Wallet isn's skill so complaining painting points makes no sense due to lack of "skill" is moot. Neither is wallet. Painting is way more skill than gaming which adds up to wallet

 Dysartes wrote:

"should" and "does" are not the same thing - you agreed to play a game, that VP structure of which currently "does" include painting as a tertiary objective.

Not the opponent's fault that Jid didn't choose to play to that objective, and it seems a bit off to then be vengeful when as a result of the game doesn't go his way.

IDK about you but i personally would never claim the 10pts if it was what would win me the game. That would be such an unsatisfying victory lol