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Not on DakkaDakka but Reddit, Fanfiction websites, and gaming forums. Whenever I suggest the Asuryani to not fight the Imperium only to be completely butchered - since they are supposed to be wise and careful and they can see the ass-kicking from a mile away - people keep deriding me and telling me to get lost.

It's really absurd. And I feel like the whole community hates this faction so much that they don't want to hear anything positive about them.

People are dumb, after all the Ultramarines have a Half-Eldar Librarian...

If anything I'd say that honor goes to Tau. I'm guessing Space Elves might be the third most popular faction in the game after SM and CSM so I don't think the "whole Community" hates them.
Eldar have overall been pretty lucky with their rules through the editions which makes some people not like them (see Karol on dakka as an example). But I haven't heard people not liking their background.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If anything I'd say that honor goes to Tau. I'm guessing Space Elves might be the third most popular faction in the game after SM and CSM so I don't think the "whole Community" hates them.
Eldar have overall been pretty lucky with their rules through the editions which makes some people not like them (see Karol on dakka as an example). But I haven't heard people not liking their background.

I don’t think any faction is really hated. Some are much more favored than others and some people take their favoritism into the extreme but that’s to be expected.

For the record I love Tau, they are basically if you took MS gundam and turned it into an army. That and they are (subjectively at least) the closest thing to good in the 40K universe since they are one of the only factions open to diplomacy. Yes they will probably kill you if you refuse but anything imperium would kill first and I don’t think tyranids could possibly contemplate diplomacy since they need to devour biomatter

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If anything I'd say that honor goes to Tau. I'm guessing Space Elves might be the third most popular faction in the game after SM and CSM so I don't think the "whole Community" hates them.
Eldar have overall been pretty lucky with their rules through the editions which makes some people not like them (see Karol on dakka as an example). But I haven't heard people not liking their background.

I don’t think any faction is really hated. Some are much more favored than others and some people take their favoritism into the extreme but that’s to be expected.

For the record I love Tau, they are basically if you took MS gundam and turned it into an army. That and they are (subjectively at least) the closest thing to good in the 40K universe since they are one of the only factions open to diplomacy. Yes they will probably kill you if you refuse but anything imperium would kill first and I don’t think tyranids could possibly contemplate diplomacy since they need to devour biomatter

I like Tau, too, more so than Eldar . For me they're the "generic intelligent Aliens" in 40K, so they certainly have their place next to "generic hive Aliens" and "generic robots" . It’s just that I've seen more people on dakka disliking Tau than other factions. Tau also get the most stupid memes that don't have anything to do with the faction, as Tau are neither fish nor communists...

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If anything I'd say that honor goes to Tau. I'm guessing Space Elves might be the third most popular faction in the game after SM and CSM so I don't think the "whole Community" hates them.
Eldar have overall been pretty lucky with their rules through the editions which makes some people not like them (see Karol on dakka as an example). But I haven't heard people not liking their background.

I don’t think any faction is really hated. Some are much more favored than others and some people take their favoritism into the extreme but that’s to be expected.

For the record I love Tau, they are basically if you took MS gundam and turned it into an army. That and they are (subjectively at least) the closest thing to good in the 40K universe since they are one of the only factions open to diplomacy. Yes they will probably kill you if you refuse but anything imperium would kill first and I don’t think tyranids could possibly contemplate diplomacy since they need to devour biomatter

I like Tau, too, more so than Eldar . For me they're the "generic intelligent Aliens" in 40K, so they certainly have their place next to "generic hive Aliens" and "generic robots" . It’s just that I've seen more people on dakka disliking Tau than other factions. Tau also get the most stupid memes that don't have anything to do with the faction, as Tau are neither fish nor communists...

I only ever see the “Hot Fuzz” memes

DeathKorp_Rider wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
If anything I'd say that honor goes to Tau. I'm guessing Space Elves might be the third most popular faction in the game after SM and CSM so I don't think the "whole Community" hates them.
Eldar have overall been pretty lucky with their rules through the editions which makes some people not like them (see Karol on dakka as an example). But I haven't heard people not liking their background.

I don’t think any faction is really hated. Some are much more favored than others and some people take their favoritism into the extreme but that’s to be expected.

For the record I love Tau, they are basically if you took MS gundam and turned it into an army. That and they are (subjectively at least) the closest thing to good in the 40K universe since they are one of the only factions open to diplomacy. Yes they will probably kill you if you refuse but anything imperium would kill first and I don’t think tyranids could possibly contemplate diplomacy since they need to devour biomatter

I am not saying that any faction is good or not But it's very clear to me that the Imperium will fight Tau more than Asuryani because the Tau actively expands to the Imperium and there are a lot of territorial conflicts. Many of the conflicts between the Asuryani and Imperium could easily be avoided.

Eldar have gotten very favored treatment in terms of overpowered rules of some sort in each codex. The 7th edition codex in particular was a great example as even their most mediocre units were better than good units from other codices.

Then you'll have Eldar players that give their plight of "well we don't have model support!!!1!"
They do, just not from GW. You can find a plethora of 3rd party that does Space Elves and not break your bank.

There are plenty of players openly hostile to CWE in the community, to the point that it's put off new players.

bibotot wrote:
And I feel like the whole community hates this faction so much that they don't want to hear anything positive about them.

There's a lot of resentment from years (and really, years and years) of having blatantly broken Codices that all culminated with the Taudar days of 7th. But, really, it's just not fair to blame the Eldar for this, because I think we know who's at fault here.

That's right: The Tau!

Stinkin' blueberries!

its the internet... everybody hates everything.

Anti-elf racism is the only tolerable racism these days. Being racist against elves is a personality trait for many gamers. Basically, when you have a collection of, uh, not mainstream people (geeks and freaks) interacting, their elevated insecurities will demand an outlet. Elves are the perfect receptacle for angst arising from racism, homophobia and body shame.

The issue with the online world is there's a loss of communication, intent and/or understanding where things come from.

In-universe smack talk between factions is the single greatest joy I get from this hobby. Obviously I don't dislike anyone or actually hate a faction. And you make your intent clear and be mindful of the temperament of who your talking to. But pfft if that ever translates well online.

For example I went to a con several years ago and brought my mother because we were visiting NY together. I met a craftworld player while in line to see a movie star. I quickly called him a long series of not so nice things. My mother was appalled lol.

The eldar player actually said to my mom, "oh no no. She's right to name call. I deserve it." and we laughed and explained the horrible days when Eldar were on top. Great day for everyone.

But people online? They don't get the joke. They take it seriously. They see others joking and think the hate is real so they hate for real too. That or take a joke as hate by mistake or simply dont find the joke funny, which is okay too. I could never play some online version of 40k because of it, if it ever existed.

Part of it is the fact that for a large chunk of time, Eldar got rules with access to some very overpowered options in both the table top and in Dawn of War. People tend to hate on stuff that’s good when it isn’t from their supported side. The Eldar have just been consistently good across multiple editions and media sources.

Part of the problem is the outdate and stale lore of 40K. Unlike most fantasy, in 40K everyone is super racial fascist. In Fantasy, elves, dwarves and men often ally with each other, and while they might have disagreements, they're far less hostile.

The funny thing is, a lot of those anti elf bros online spank it every day to elf porn. I know this to be true because I know some of those anti eldar types IRL and I've seen their "collections" shared on various social sites. So at this point they're just self hating.

Lammia wrote:There are plenty of players openly hostile to CWE in the community, to the point that it's put off new players.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

bibotot wrote:
And I feel like the whole community hates this faction so much that they don't want to hear anything positive about them.

There's a lot of resentment from years (and really, years and years) of having blatantly broken Codices that all culminated with the Taudar days of 7th.

Bloviator wrote:Anti-elf racism is the only tolerable racism these days. Being racist against elves is a personality trait for many gamers. Basically, when you have a collection of, uh, not mainstream people (geeks and freaks) interacting, their elevated insecurities will demand an outlet. Elves are the perfect receptacle for angst arising from racism, homophobia and body shame.

And there it is folks, the root of the issue. A lot of people hate on the space elves because they have traditionally had one or two broken combos in their codex since..... basically forever, right up until 8th finally blew it away. Now we move onto the healing part where people stop yelling at the space elf players...eventually. Maybe. The number of outright nazis that play 40K is a bit counter to that cause healing needs to have a healthy dose of letting go of hate and - >several more minutes of rambling omitted for brevity<

usernamesareannoying wrote:its the internet... everybody hates everything.

.................Ok yeah that too tbh

I blame Vect...

But please don't tell him I said that.

No, no.

Vect isn't toxic; He's always shown as very polite. He's just literally poisoned you.

Close, but crucial difference.

 Bloviator wrote:
Anti-elf racism is the only tolerable racism these days. Being racist against elves is a personality trait for many gamers. Basically, when you have a collection of, uh, not mainstream people (geeks and freaks) interacting, their elevated insecurities will demand an outlet. Elves are the perfect receptacle for angst arising from racism, homophobia and body shame.

This post is weird... Perhaps homophobia can be disguised by elf racism... But racism and body shaming??

When elf (as usually represented) are the paradigmatic Aryan able bodies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
Part of the problem is the outdate and stale lore of 40K. Unlike most fantasy, in 40K everyone is super racial fascist. In Fantasy, elves, dwarves and men often ally with each other, and while they might have disagreements, they're far less hostile.

The funny thing is, a lot of those anti elf bros online spank it every day to elf porn. I know this to be true because I know some of those anti eldar types IRL and I've seen their "collections" shared on various social sites. So at this point they're just self hating.

In Tolkiens work elves and men are mostly allies (I know its more complicated) against the orcquish threat... Its sort of an analogy of Northern and Soutern Europeans working together against "the East" (Mordor is the Balkans or Middle East).

 Bloviator wrote:
Anti-elf racism is the only tolerable racism these days. Being racist against elves is a personality trait for many gamers. Basically, when you have a collection of, uh, not mainstream people (geeks and freaks) interacting, their elevated insecurities will demand an outlet. Elves are the perfect receptacle for angst arising from racism, homophobia and body shame.

The hell... ? Elves aren't real.

 Togusa wrote:
... in 40K everyone is super racial fascist.

A hopelessly off-base reduction.

 CynosureEldar wrote:
The number of outright nazis that play 40K...

You mean a shockingly tiny group that virtually no one ever sees or encounters?

Methinks you've been spending too much time at Sigmarxism...

PenitentJake wrote:I blame Vect...

But please don't tell him I said that.

Oh he already knows. His spies are everywhere.

EviscerationPlague wrote:Eldar have gotten very favored treatment in terms of overpowered rules of some sort in each codex. The 7th edition codex in particular was a great example as even their most mediocre units were better than good units from other codices.

Then you'll have Eldar players that give their plight of "well we don't have model support!!!1!"
They do, just not from GW. You can find a plethora of 3rd party that does Space Elves and not break your bank.

I haven't heard anyone making the model support argument since the new codex came out. Our line is actually looking pretty good at this point. Still plenty of stuff I'd like to see updated, but I'm not actively annoyed about the state of our model range any more.

Speaking as someone who started 40k as an eldar player in the one edition that they were kind of meh (5th), there's definitely some anti-eldar hostility out there. Not like, serious hostility, but I think we end up having to listen to more than our fair share of whining and ribbing. We were the faction that had a million special rules before it was cool, so when things went well for us, people seemed to feel offended that our priced-like-marines-but-with-worse-stats army could perform well thanks to bespoke rules. Plus, when we've been OP, it tends to be in very frustrating ways (unkillable seer councils, scatbikes that delete a unit and then move out of line of sight, 8th edition Alaitoc flyer lists where most of the army was at -2 to being hit more often than not, etc.) So you take those frustrating outliers and combine them with many non-eldar players, frankly, not knowing enough about the faction to realize how much of the codex was actually pretty reasonable, and you end up with non-eldar players whinging about how OP eldar are even when they aren't. Or when you, personally, aren't fielding any of the OP options.

In 8th edition, I had a guy complain about how overpowered howling banshees were. For those not in the know, this betrays a lot about his grasp of eldar and 40k in general.

And tau are in a similar boat. When Tau are OP, they tend to be really OP and really unfun to play against. So combine that with people who don't enjoy tau fluff, and you get a bunch of whining and ribbing.

bibotot wrote:Not on DakkaDakka but Reddit, Fanfiction websites, and gaming forums. Whenever I suggest the Asuryani to not fight the Imperium only to be completely butchered - since they are supposed to be wise and careful and they can see the ass-kicking from a mile away - people keep deriding me and telling me to get lost.

It's really absurd. And I feel like the whole community hates this faction so much that they don't want to hear anything positive about them.

Regarding reactions to that fluff, I could see people interpreting what you're saying as "my army should always beat your army" style fanboying. So I can see where, with the wrong internet voice, people might take offense. It's kind of like when certain marine players claim that their chapter should win every fight because marines are just that tough and cool and their chapter is super double extra awesome.

To get into the fluff a bit deeper, the eldar are possessed of incredible divination skills, and they do frequently avoid butt kickings by virtue of those skills. The thing is, they might avoid 1,000 bad matchups, but the galaxy is so hostile that they'll still be forced into a risky situation and have to take fight 1,001. Maybe the predictions looked pretty good for your craftworld if they swooped in to save a maiden world from imperial colonization, but then something unexpected happened (possibly thanks to chaos influence) causing what should have been an easy win to turn into a terrible loss. Maybe the imperium has decided your craftworld is actively hostile enough to its interests that it warrants hunting down, and you end up with a fleet of ships gunning for your craftworld, spreading a wide search net so that you can't escape. (This kind of happens in the Path of the Warrior series.) Maybe the farseers were able to narrowly escape 199 years worth of threats only to find (as the skein becomes clearer) that they've left themselves in a bad position for year 200. Maybe those gosh darn humans dug up another Slaaneshi artefact, and now your only hope for preventing a Keeper of Secrets from being unleashed and destroying your craftworld is to engage in a direct assault on the governor's palace despite the large cost and small chance of success.

Basically, farseers are good, but they're not omniscient, and the galaxy is hostile enough to give craftworlds lots of opportunities to be threatened.

CWE had a lot of older models (and still do) they for sure need some finecast to plastic support.

I know this is about hate towards CWE, but DE gets hate as well, and they dont have new unit support at all... 1 of only 2 armies (GKs have only gotten 1 new unit). I wish DE would get a new unit....no new unit since 2010 and counting....

 Wyldhunt wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:I blame Vect...

But please don't tell him I said that.

Oh he already knows. His spies are everywhere.

EviscerationPlague wrote:Eldar have gotten very favored treatment in terms of overpowered rules of some sort in each codex. The 7th edition codex in particular was a great example as even their most mediocre units were better than good units from other codices.

Then you'll have Eldar players that give their plight of "well we don't have model support!!!1!"
They do, just not from GW. You can find a plethora of 3rd party that does Space Elves and not break your bank.

I haven't heard anyone making the model support argument since the new codex came out. Our line is actually looking pretty good at this point. Still plenty of stuff I'd like to see updated, but I'm not actively annoyed about the state of our model range any more.

Speaking as someone who started 40k as an eldar player in the one edition that they were kind of meh (5th)

Pure revisionism, as in 5th they were upper midtier at worst LOL

Amishprn86 wrote:
I know this is about hate towards CWE, but DE gets hate as well...

Do they? I never really got any DE hate until the 9th edition book dropped, and the hate seems to have died down now that the gap between drukhari and other factions has shrunk. In 5th through 8th, fielding drukhari usually made people go, "Wtf is a dark eldar?" or "Oh jeez. That's brave of you." Barring some coven gimmicks here and there.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Pure revisionism, as in 5th they were upper midtier at worst LOL

Admittedly, I wasn't exactly a tournament scene player back in 5th, but I'm pretty sure they were upper midtier IF you stuck with one of a handful of viable builds. So if you were building your army around one or two seer councils and DAVU tanks, you could win games, but a vanilla list had a lot working against it. Namely having squishy troops that weren't great against tanks in an edition where tanks were the meta and only troops could hold objectives. Plus, our good anti-tank tended to be some combination of short ranged and expensive, and our ranged anti-tank was almost universally BS 4+ with expensive S8 weapons (we didn't really have long-range S9 or higher) only penetrating a rhino/razorback's AV 50% of the time.

All of which is, I suppose, kind of beside the point. Eldar could've been the hands down best army in 5th edition, and it wouldn't change my stance that people tend to whine about them a lot even when it isn't warranted.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Amishprn86 wrote:
I know this is about hate towards CWE, but DE gets hate as well...

Do they? I never really got any DE hate until the 9th edition book dropped, and the hate seems to have died down now that the gap between drukhari and other factions has shrunk. In 5th through 8th, fielding drukhari usually made people go, "Wtf is a dark eldar?" or "Oh jeez. That's brave of you." Barring some coven gimmicks here and there.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Pure revisionism, as in 5th they were upper midtier at worst LOL

Admittedly, I wasn't exactly a tournament scene player back in 5th, but I'm pretty sure they were upper midtier IF you stuck with one of a handful of viable builds. So if you were building your army around one or two seer councils and DAVU tanks, you could win games, but a vanilla list had a lot working against it. Namely having squishy troops that weren't great against tanks in an edition where tanks were the meta and only troops could hold objectives. Plus, our good anti-tank tended to be some combination of short ranged and expensive, and our ranged anti-tank was almost universally BS 4+ with expensive S8 weapons (we didn't really have long-range S9 or higher) only penetrating a rhino/razorback's AV 50% of the time.

All of which is, I suppose, kind of beside the point. Eldar could've been the hands down best army in 5th edition, and it wouldn't change my stance that people tend to whine about them a lot even when it isn't warranted.

Yep, it comes and goes, as soon as DE starts to win they should be nerfed instantly, 3rd? nerf, early ish 5th? nerf, 7th with 1 playable build? nerf. 9th with 1 stupid unit and 2 under costed units? nerf. WIth a smaller populations most dont notice it, but us players do.

PS 5th had some nasty combos

Switching from the fluffy beauty of the 5th edition dark eldar codex to the painfully spartan 7th edition codex was rough... I still miss pain tokens. (Even though they were a mess.)

rejecting the suggestion that the eldar and the IoM be best buddies and never fight isn't toxic,

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Switching from the fluffy beauty of the 5th edition dark eldar codex to the painfully spartan 7th edition codex was rough... I still miss pain tokens. (Even though they were a mess.)

Yeah, 7th killed it for me until CTC/DA formations came out, then it was fun again, sadly you could easily with with CTC and players hated it, getting 2-3 Killed units from Talos instantly getting you VPs lol. But I had Corsairs, so much more fun (and honestly very balanced if you didn't spam Warp Hunters or the formation)

"Asuryani"

Who?

Where did this new made up word come from?

 Bloviator wrote:
Anti-elf racism is the only tolerable racism these days. Being racist against elves is a personality trait for many gamers. Basically, when you have a collection of, uh, not mainstream people (geeks and freaks) interacting, their elevated insecurities will demand an outlet. Elves are the perfect receptacle for angst arising from racism, homophobia and body shame.

Oh OK the Eldar, yeah, them.

Elves, from Tolkein on down, are basically the 'better than you' faction. Smarter, wiser, magical, faster, more agile, more empathic, better looking with better hair.

Yeah Marines are super soldiers and their stat line is literally Humans+1. But they were made by human and they're a linear progression. Plus their big, ugly and bald.

Elves are are just Mary Sues with extra Mary Sue on top. So yeah, there's a lot to dislike about their core concept that Commie Fishmen and Space Mummies from Before Time don't really have.

Everyone hates elves, tau, and custodes. Just one of the downsides of playing one of the superior factions. Don't worry about it. You'll get used to the hate. You may even grow to love it