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What the subject line says. I'd assumed they were completely extinguished in 40K lore during the War in Heaven (or whatever their conflict with the Necrons was called), but did a bit of Google faq-checking and found some discussion of remote, closed-off Slann worlds that purportedly still exist in 40K.

So are the Slann actually still around in 40K, in the lore if nowhere else? Or are they dead after their war with the Necrons, and, unlike the Necrons, actually buried for good, not to rise again in steely new bodies?

As an aside, I've always missed the Slann in 40K. Their role in creating the original races of Warhammer fantasy and messing up bigtime and opening the Chaos polar portal was one of my favorite parts of Old World Warhammer lore. I guess the Tau kind of fill in for them as an incorruptible alien race these days, even though the Tau are identified as a young race rather than the oldest one. At least Tim Prow's Diehard Miniatures Eru-Kin fill the 40K space Slann void model-wise.

Not clear as to why GW thought it was necessary to keep the Slann out of 40K. I get that at some point they didn't want 40K to go full-on "fantasy in space," but unlike Orks and Dwarfs, Slann aren't exactly a pillar of fantasy fiction, and Amphibian aliens don't really resonate as fantasy archetypes in space to the same degree.

Not sure why it was ever necessary to muddy the waters about whether the Slann were actually the Old Ones themselves or just their servants, either.

One of the Cabal was hinted at as been a Slann, so if true they were still around during the Heresy.

Well. Therein lies a story of the mutable background.

Back when Slaan were still in 40K, and they were all Frog-Men in terms of design, they were degenerate versions of The Old Slaan, those who seeded many species. But that was just the Rogue Trader era really, and ever since the species that did the species seeding and scrapped it out with the Necrontyr have been The Old Ones.

To my knowledge, The Old One’s have never really been physically described.

It is hinted at the Eldar Gods are surviving Old Ones, literally one physical beings long since dead or transcended into The Warp before the Dark Gods coalesced (again a result pinned on the War in Heaven causing enough misery and destruction to cause tumult in the Warp as a result of a preponderance of negative emotions).

Could there be a descendant, debased species of The Old Ones out there in the Galaxy? Sure could. But for all intents and purposes, the Old Ones seem to be long, long extinct.

Slann=old ones=Seraphon

All roads lead to Kroak!!!

But in all seriousness, it is at least possible.

Kroots are Slanns most probably

Some element of the slann would have found a way to hide out

I think they aren’t in 40K cos GW didn’t want WFB and 40K to be sci/fi-fantasy mirror images.

It could be that the WFB world, however it now exists, is the last haven of the slann, maybe they wrapped it in a warp bubble to protect it from the necron

WFB world was destroyed.

The Slann(i) were pictured in the 4th edition rulebook.

In a world where the previously thought to be extinct Squats have actually been flourishing, and created Primaris level battle suits, and NO ONE KNEW ABOUT IT, you think it would be hard to hide the dregs of a race that didn't want to be found anywhere in the universe?

Seriously, Imperial space is so badly explored that entire fleets of Chaos Raiders, Xenos, and other stuff go unnoticed constantly. Something has to basically pass in front of a well established planet for it to even get noticed.

Take the Cain Books. How many include entire planets invested by Tyranids, that no one knew about? Or GeneStealers, or orks? With a very few exceptions, the imperium is blind.

Vatsetis wrote:
WFB world was destroyed.

But for all we know it could have been destroyed before the HH or millennia after current 40K setting.

This is definitely me reading too much into things, but I kind of like the notion that a lot of the minor species in the galaxy are descendants of the Slaan and/or their experiments. Especially those with a knack for tweaking their own forms.

So you've got the Laer with their biological augmentations, the Rak'Gol with their low-tech bionics and hunting fixation (vaguely exodite-ish Slaan?), maybe even the (admittedly more avian) kroot with their own unique mechanism for morphing t heir bodies, and the hrud whose lore used to strongly hint at Old One creators. And then I'd be tempted to to throw the Sslyth into that list by virtue of being similar to the Laer physically and whose vague hedonism could potentially hint at a tendency towards Slaaneshi worship.

If I were limber enough, I could maybe even stretch far enough to suggest that there's maybe some sort of connection between the "dragons" (dinosaurs) that are a big part of ancient aeldari (and modern exodite) culture.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
This is definitely me reading too much into things, but I kind of like the notion that a lot of the minor species in the galaxy are descendants of the Slaan and/or their experiments. Especially those with a knack for tweaking their own forms.

So you've got the Laer with their biological augmentations, the Rak'Gol with their low-tech bionics and hunting fixation (vaguely exodite-ish Slaan?), maybe even the (admittedly more avian) kroot with their own unique mechanism for morphing t heir bodies, and the hrud whose lore used to strongly hint at Old One creators. And then I'd be tempted to to throw the Sslyth into that list by virtue of being similar to the Laer physically and whose vague hedonism could potentially hint at a tendency towards Slaaneshi worship.

If I were limber enough, I could maybe even stretch far enough to suggest that there's maybe some sort of connection between the "dragons" (dinosaurs) that are a big part of ancient aeldari (and modern exodite) culture.

My head canon is that all or nearly all warp sensitive species are made by the old one. It’s more obvious with orks and eldar when viewed from a human perspective because you see all their differences in a functional or practical perspective that you don’t look at humans with because all human behaviour feels ‘normal’. I think humans were a bit of a basic species that were either made for grunt work or an ignored failure. And like cockroaches your not seeing them but they are multiplying and adapting at an astonishing rate (I don’t know anything about cockroaches)

mrFickle wrote:

My head canon is that all or nearly all warp sensitive species are made by the old one.

Same, but I also like to think that the species mentioned above (except the Hrud) might possess actual Old One DNA or otherwise be designed specifically to emulate the Old Ones' penchant for gene-smithing. For instance, I could see ancient Old Ones having an ability similar to that of the kroot that allowed them to actively shape their forms which in turn allowed them to become something god-like and to use their knowledge of biology to create the other species of the galaxy.

It’s more obvious with orks and eldar when viewed from a human perspective because you see all their differences in a functional or practical perspective that you don’t look at humans with because all human behaviour feels ‘normal’. I think humans were a bit of a basic species that were either made for grunt work or an ignored failure. And like cockroaches your not seeing them but they are multiplying and adapting at an astonishing rate (I don’t know anything about cockroaches)

That sounds about right. Although I could see humanity being more of a long-term project that they had to abandon after the War in Heaven rather than a failure. If humanity was able to stumble its way into producing the Emperor, then they probably weren't a project without some merit. Eldar and the Krork were probably just easier to uplift into psychic weapons faster.

As with all things with GW's rampant inconsistency when it comes to lore, they are 100% extinct until such time as an author decides to use them in a setting. Or until GW releases them as a playable 40k faction in 10th.

The first Necron Codex (i.e. Oldcrons) suggested using a WHFB Lizardmen army to represent the degenerate descendants of the Old Ones, all but implying Old Ones = Slann.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
As with all things with GW's rampant inconsistency when it comes to lore, they are 100% extinct until such time as an author decides to use them in a setting. Or until GW releases them as a playable 40k faction in 10th.

They’re said to have disappeared, with no-one really knowing what happened to them. Extinction is only one possibility, as they could’ve nicked off from this Galaxy.

After all, we’ve no way of knowing how far the Webway truly extended. Showing it and granting access to the ancient Eldar doesn’t mean giving access to the whole of the thing. So it’s entirely possible they always had safe passage elsewhere, or at least comparably safe passage.

Iracundus wrote:
The first Necron Codex (i.e. Oldcrons) suggested using a WHFB Lizardmen army to represent the degenerate descendants of the Old Ones, all but implying Old Ones = Slann.

When the slann were released for WFB there was a cover for WD saying in big letters “the old ones are back”

I read this as old ones in WFB are the old ones in W40k

Same as chaos is chaos in WFB, AOS & 40K

Do none of you remember the Slann / Old One that appeared in one of the Guants Ghosts novels? Possibly the first or second novel, I forget. Chaos were attacking and it took over the Ghosts minds to get them to help defend it.

Can’t remember wot I’ve never read

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
In a world where the previously thought to be extinct Squats have actually been flourishing, and created Primaris level battle suits, and NO ONE KNEW ABOUT IT, you think it would be hard to hide the dregs of a race that didn't want to be found anywhere in the universe?

The problem with that idea is the fact they had 65 million years to repopulate galaxy, which is only oh, 30x times the time you need to do so using purely rocket engines. No FTL, just standard propulsion generation ships. Give them FTL and they will do that in tiny fraction of that time, especially seeing the next largest space empire remaining, Eldar, is theirs to command on a whim. Unless Eldar or Orks actually eradicated the remaining population themselves for some reason, well, they would have rebuilt long ago.

So yeah, Doc is right, maybe there are some degenerate dregs somewhere, or the remaining handful of Old Ones roleplayed various gods of younger races (only to be torn apart by big S at birth so that point is now moot too) but the race/civilization is for all intents and purposes dead.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Although I could see humanity being more of a long-term project that they had to abandon after the War in Heaven rather than a failure.

Seeing primates at the time of WiH resembled modern squirrel, yeah, pretty much so

After all, we’ve no way of knowing how far the Webway truly extended.

Except we kinda do, seeing Exodites and Craftworlders ran to the ends of it to avoid birth of S, unless there is section that was off limits for younger races. Otherwise even if it was not used then, Eldar would use it now to jump ship and avoid Tyranids, Necrons, and Great Rift.

are the slan still around...

Yes and No, it's complicated....

1 off we are talking about a race in which there are 2 levels of socity.

the slann and the old ones.

the slann are a High Tec amphibain race that love water worlds and shun Imperial Contact.
with as a result contact and comunication being unwelcome, and the planets they live on not of interst to the empire.

The old ones are a Amphibain race of Golden age nobility who shun contact with all outsiders and only interact with there harem and chosen intermederies, exspert hirlings who are above reproch.

Ontop of this add a tiny Slann population even at the hight of the slann empire and you instantly see a problem. even if there was a sevivor they don't live anywhere you would whant to go, and they would not talk to you when you get there. and any requst for conquest of these xeno would be turned down as there worlds are worth effort to invade.

Full extinction of any species with a galaxy spanning empire? Come on, it would be impossible to achieve that, the galaxy is so big there will be somewhere to hide.

The old ones were so powerful with the warp maybe that’s where they went and are exacting their revenge on that galaxy as beings of chaos

mrFickle wrote:
Full extinction of any species with a galaxy spanning empire? Come on, it would be impossible to achieve that, the galaxy is so big there will be somewhere to hide.

The old ones were so powerful with the warp maybe that’s where they went and are exacting their revenge on that galaxy as beings of chaos

There was a theory back when Xenology came out that the Eldar Gods were the leaders of Old Ones ascended somehow.

Those gods definitely seemed to be part of the Old Ones’ war machine somehow, since they apparently appeared in essentially the same forms in all of their constructed races’ mythologies and the Eldar have legends of them actively fighting the C’tan and original being in real space before Eldanesh was killed.

The other obvious option is that they’re simply psychic constructs the Old Ones specifically shaped their servants to create, but ascended Old Ones is still a possibility.

Or perhaps they were originally the latter but became the former (similar to Sigmar in WFB pre ET retcon) and that’s the real reason why they stopped interacting with the materium (the Old Ones they were based on were now dead and they really were just warp gods).

The Eldar Gods, and indeed Gork & Mork could be entirely separate species, or something akin to Primarchs are to baseline humans.

They may well once have been corporeal, but upon death or some other form of transcendence wound up as Warp Entities in their own right. Kind of like The Emperor, but engineered or hyper evolved by The Old Ones.

The war in heaven was the cause of the warp becoming so chaotic. Maybe he old ones became the pantheon of chaos gods

mrFickle wrote:
Full extinction of any species with a galaxy spanning empire? Come on, it would be impossible to achieve that, the galaxy is so big there will be somewhere to hide.

The old ones were so powerful with the warp maybe that’s where they went and are exacting their revenge on that galaxy as beings of chaos

I’d urge caution on that assumption, because of the sheer scale of Old Ones vs Necrons. The timescale of the war is unclear, but given The Old Ones seemingly had the time to create entire species, and in sufficient numbers for them to be significant military forces. And once the Necrons breached the Webway, things went south rapidly.

It’s possible The Old Ones were entirely wiped out in such a cataclysmic conflict.

Maybe they sought refuge in the WFB planet and went through some sort of devolution. They survived end time and are now stuck in whatever dimension they are in now

Old Ones are already long gone even by the point of WHFB, with only the oldest Slaan even remembering interactions with them. The Slaan that were there attempted to act out the 'Great Plan' of the Old Ones, which is essentially the equivalent to employees trying to act out what they think the manager's business plan was after they dissappear. It goes about as well as you'd expect.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Old Ones are already long gone even by the point of WHFB, with only the oldest Slaan even remembering interactions with them. The Slaan that were there attempted to act out the 'Great Plan' of the Old Ones, which is essentially the equivalent to employees trying to act out what they think the manager's business plan was after they dissappear. It goes about as well as you'd expect.

So in your analogy the manager disappears allowing the team to get on with some work and achieves something pretty whilst reviewing fixing errors in the managers initial strategy as the went along using an agile method of delivery?