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I'd be surprised if Flamers went up by more than 5ppm, up by 10ppm makes them more expensive than a Terminator, which doesn't seem quite right.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MCH1sun1hZ7chbtY.pdf

hey, warpstorm table got nerfed! woohoo!

feth this codex honestly -.-

No it didn't. Be'lakor got tiny nerf while still being too good for points so no point crying unless you just want auto win op armies(play votann then)

As is belakor in sc wasn't neccessarily even　good pick seeing it gives up warlord trait.

Need some confirmation/correction from you guys about some of the rules please.

#1 Is there any reason WHY we would want to start on the table in turn 1, particularly if you're going second? (unless you want to use Nurgling's Mischief Makers ability). Just about the whole army could be held in Manifestation and then come in own deployment zone or no-man's land 3"-9" depending on enemies Ld.

Right? (I'm sure you'd want to deploy on tableat if your opponents has Drop Pods or other powers to re-deploy).

#2 Using Manifestation, you can NEVER drop down in your opponent's deployment zone... Right? Would have to use the stratagem WARP PORTAL or Noctic psychic power
SHROUDED STEP in order to drop units to the back line? (thinking for flamer units)
Manifestation Rule:

Mission Packs generally disallow having more than half your army in reserves, and coming in turn one.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Mission Packs generally disallow having more than half your army in reserves, and coming in turn one.

Yeah, if playing Nephilim that's certainly true.

IN those missions, is it generally worth holding half army in reserve or start on table to saturate target threats?

FAQ is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/MCH1sun1hZ7chbtY.pdf

You can come in using Manifestation in the enemy deployment zone, you have to be either 9" away or if using a Warp Locus 6" away.

If you use Manifestation to come in in no man's land, you can then either come in 9" away or leadership away.

Finally if you use Manifestation in your own deployment zone you can come in 3" away.

As stated, if you play Nephilim (or any other CA) or Tempest of War, you can't put more than 50% in reserves. But, you also can't come onto the table from reserves on turn 1 in those mission packs.

In order to work out whether you should put 50% of your army in Manifestation mode, you need to understand your opponent's army and your game plan.

There are many armies out there who will overrun you if they go first and get two turns of moving, shooting, punching before your Manifestation units can show up.

But then there are other armies who will stand back where the "free" movement of Manifestation will get you over to them faster than walking would.

That understanding requires experience. So the best answer is to go out and get it.

In general though, saturation is one of the weaker 9th edition 40k strategies. Ideally you should be giving your opponent zero targets to shoot or charge on turn one if you go second. And generally you should only expose your units if it contributes to you winning the game (scoring your own points or denying their points).

tneva82 wrote:
No it didn't. Be'lakor got tiny nerf while still being too good for points so no point crying unless you just want auto win op armies(play votann then)

As is belakor in sc wasn't neccessarily even　good pick seeing it gives up warlord trait.

Yes belakor got nerfed but now it means you probably won't get access to all the warpstorm table (which is still pretty bad even with full access). And no, last thing i want is an OP army, i never played belakor in my lists anyway.

EightFoldPath wrote:
You can come in using Manifestation in the enemy deployment zone, you have to be either 9" away or if using a Warp Locus 6" away.

Are you sure? Manifestations seems to prohibit from dropping into enemy's deployment zone:
Neither wholly within your deployment zone nor within your opponent’s deployment zone, and more than a number of inches away from each enemy unit, equal to the current Leadership characteristic of that enemy unit (to a minimum of 3" and a maximum of 9").
Doesn't that prohibit that in every scenario? (edit: "that" meaning dropping into enemy's deployment zone)

If you use Manifestation to come in in no man's land, you can then either come in 9" away or leadership away.

Finally if you use Manifestation in your own deployment zone you can come in 3" away.

Yup, understood that.

As stated, if you play Nephilim (or any other CA) or Tempest of War, you can't put more than 50% in reserves. But, you also can't come onto the table from reserves on turn 1 in those mission packs.

In order to work out whether you should put 50% of your army in Manifestation mode, you need to understand your opponent's army and your game plan.

There are many armies out there who will overrun you if they go first and get two turns of moving, shooting, punching before your Manifestation units can show up.

But then there are other armies who will stand back where the "free" movement of Manifestation will get you over to them faster than walking would.

That understanding requires experience. So the best answer is to go out and get it.

In general though, saturation is one of the weaker 9th edition 40k strategies. Ideally you should be giving your opponent zero targets to shoot or charge on turn one if you go second. And generally you should only expose your units if it contributes to you winning the game (scoring your own points or denying their points).

Good points! Thanks!!

Manifestation
During deployment, you can set up this unit in the warp instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do so, then in the Reinforcements step of one of your Movement phases you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models,........

This includes the opponents deployment zone.

 p5freak wrote:

Manifestation
During deployment, you can set up this unit in the warp instead of setting it up on the battlefield. If you do so, then in the Reinforcements step of one of your Movement phases you can set up this unit anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9" away from any enemy models,........

This includes the opponents deployment zone.

Ah, okay.

I had it in my head that the 2nd paragraph applied additional restrictions to the 1st paragraph...

Overall I think the FAQ shows the Codex was written cleanly. There were items (like the slothful claws) where the RAI was obvious and needed a little tidying up via RAW.

The clarification on Malefic weapons is good. I know that it was something that opinions were divided on.

The only surprise was the detachment exclusion for Warp Storm, but I don't think it breaks anything in a meaningful way.

Bit weird how bloodletters in skull cannon are now superior to bloodletters on foot or on juggernauts though.

I think Be'lakor went from auto-include to just a fantastic unit for his points. Losing the full warpstorm table hurts a bit. With our lack of stratagems, extra warlord traits, etc., having access to the full table allowed some plays and tricks that helped shore up the weaknesses we had elsewhere.

Votann will still counter our GD's but after their nerf at least they won't delete multiple whole units without some effort.

I don't mind the Belly change, having a WL trait on a greater was likely better anyway and the God Specific WS powers are only really useful if you have a good amount of that gods units in your army, in which case taking a patrol of them isn't a huge hardship.

Wait, so it's not possible to modify the characteristics of an attack MADE with an Malific weapon, does that mean they ignore -1 damage and armour of contempt?

 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Wait, so it's not possible to modify the characteristics of an attack MADE with an Malific weapon, does that mean they ignore -1 damage and armour of contempt?

Yes.

For some reasons bloodletters on bloodthrone are meaner vs marines than the herald riding it And skull cannon bloodletters. Khorne assigns best bloodletters to cannon?

tneva82 wrote:
Khorne assigns best bloodletters to cannon?

Of course, the attendants need to be proficient at collecting skulls for shooting out of the cannon.

And juggernauts are khorne's elite plague marine hunters Bloodletters riding them can go cry in corner ;-)

Somehow I suspect GW didn't exactly think this one through but what the heck. At least for now that's how it is.

Dont play pink horrors, you get punished for successful splitting, and replenishing the unit. When you lose 9 and you split 8 of them into 16 blue horrors, and return 3 pinks with dark inviguration, and fail the morale test, you have to roll 20 dice for combat attrition. Thats almost twice as much as you would have to roll without successful splitting, no split would be 11 dice. Turns out more models are even more scared.

You would be worse off without split so...

tneva82 wrote:
And juggernauts are khorne's elite plague marine hunters Bloodletters riding them can go cry in corner ;-)

Somehow I suspect GW didn't exactly think this one through but what the heck. At least for now that's how it is.

That's just a continuation of the long running joke about the animal mount often being more dangerous than the rider.
It's been true in WHFB for decades & continues in AoS. You just don't notice it as much in 40k because there's relatively few beast mounted units.

Well joke is joke. Very few times it's actually true though.

tneva82 wrote:

 Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Wait, so it's not possible to modify the characteristics of an attack MADE with an Malific weapon, does that mean they ignore -1 damage and armour of contempt?

Yes.

For some reasons bloodletters on bloodthrone are meaner vs marines than the herald riding it And skull cannon bloodletters. Khorne assigns best bloodletters to cannon?

Clarification on this if you would... I understand that you cannot change the damage characteristic of the weapon, but doesn't damage reduction, ie -1 damage, happen once the defending model receives the damage and then the damage is reduced? Therefore, the characteristic is not changed?

Damage reduction refers directly to the Damage characteristic, so one would assume it is modifying the Damage characteristic.

Played against Sisters last night.

My list was similar to this:


Some thoughts on Demons...

Tz Demon saves 3+ against shooting is bonkers. Opponents need to get into hand-to-hand to reliably destroy Tz units.

Flamers are pretty good, but I don't see 'em as this super broken unit and I think they're priced about right. They are annoying being that they have that glorious 3+ save against shooting.

Be'lakor is all that. Perfect take-all-comers unit in a Demon list imo.

Nurgle Soul Grinders is good as advertised. Expect to see 3 of these in many lists.

Leave Armour of Scorn off of the 'Thristers. Take the Talisman. Even with Armour of Scorn, 'Thirsters being T8 is a massive buff from previous edition and my thirster survived 2.5 rounds. I'll take it.

Warpstorm isn't all that great. Mostly took that -1 to shooting > 12". The healing one during morale is nice, but only got that once during the game. Debating if it's worth building a list to leverage WT/powers/relics that allows you to save 2 WP for next turn.

Nurglings really don't do much. Leave 'em.

Speaking of troops. I think the only decent troops is just the bloodletters. Spam 'em if you can. Because you need troops for obj secured and do various actions.

Not too terribly impressed of the LoC and wonder a 2nd 'Thirster would be better.

If I were to do a "monster bash" list... we need cheap bodies and... that's not easy in this codex.

To be honest, I think the dark horse in this codex is any Khorne demons. I think Thirsters (incl' Skarbrand), massed bloodletters with skullcannons has significant play. However, I don't have all those models, so I'm looking at the following:


All the various Khorne Heralds... I think they have some play, as you can fling them via Warp Portal for 1CP.

 whembly wrote:

To be honest, I think the dark horse in this codex is any Khorne demons.

I don't think you know what a dark horse is.
Other than everyone gushing about Belekor, flamers, & to some degree Soul Grinders? Khorne units have been an obvious choice since day 1.

Last weekend my not-even-max-unit of 5 flamers survived a charge from a squad of howling banshees equipped with the current meta loadout (mirrorswords + piercing strikes). Banshees are one of the few autotake units in the Craftworlds book. They only managed to kill two flamers.