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 BertBert wrote:


On the other hand, they have brought back several other things that people had been asking for, some of which were closer to memes than actual possible releases: Necromunda, Sororitas, Kroot, Arbites, GSC, Squats etc.

That at least does give me some hope that they are aware of the demand for WHF coming back and are taking it seriously. What remains to be seen is how strongly they are going to commit.

Frankly all that interested me in a return to the Old World is Chaos Dwarves, Cathay and Kislev. So really I think it completely depends on their release schedule on if it will be a strongly supported success. I expect that when it launches it will be heavy with Empire, Chaos and High Elves, but I really hope I am proven wrong.

A "Get Started" box with Kislev versus Chaos Dwarves would be amazing...

 RiTides wrote:

 KidCthulhu wrote:
I'd love all those things to happen, Paymaster, but I'm not nearly as optimistic.

GW just haven't given us enough to go on.

Yeah, I feel like they're going to stretch this out and keep giving original fans hope, but not sure they can really make what we'd all want.

I certainly think people should keep their expectations restrained for the initial release, though I'd hope for a fairly comprehensive Black Book set of army lists to cover factions they don't release at launch.

TOW even has me looking at that Dwarf Regiment of Reknown box, as I don't think I had any of those old models in my old Throng. Would need to eBay some square bases, though.

 RiTides wrote:
Despite the success of AoS, blowing up the Old World is still one of GW's biggest mistakes to me.

It's certainly a mistake you'd be intimately familiar with, that's for sure.

If Chaos Dwarfs aren't in then the Old Worlde can stay dead!!!

I'm more optimistic. I think it is taking a while because they are using the time to make sure it is done right.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm more optimistic. I think it is taking a while because they are using the time to make sure it is done right.

While hoping the best, but in the meantime I am keeping my Book of Grudges close.

I also hopping for some cool army boxes like Vanguard and Combat Patrol stuff.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm more optimistic. I think it is taking a while because they are using the time to make sure it is done right.

I'm gonna throw in a wild guess and say, assuming TOW is actually a thing, it's unlikely to happen while they're churning out monthly Heresy kits. TOW feels like exactly what slides into Heresy production slots once Heresy is done, not run concurrently with it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I'm more optimistic. I think it is taking a while because they are using the time to make sure it is done right.

I'm gonna throw in a wild guess and say, assuming TOW is actually a thing, it's unlikely to happen while they're churning out monthly Heresy kits. TOW feels like exactly what slides into Heresy production slots once Heresy is done, not run concurrently with it.

Indeed - they seem to be in a right hurry to shift as many big forgeworld kits towards plastic as they can, to open up capacity for something, and at this point the only thing we can reasonably assume that to be is TOW.

Prepare yourselves (jokingly) :

FW Empire Reikland heads & shields

FW Empire Averland heads & shields

FW Empire Talabecland heads & shields

..

Old-Four-Arms wrote:
Prepare yourselves (jokingly) :

FW Empire Reikland heads & shields

FW Empire Averland heads & shields

FW Empire Talabecland heads & shields

..

Luckily we'll get:
Plastic Riekland Steamtank

Plastic Averland Steamtank (same basic model, but with a different cannon)

Plastic Nordland Steamtank (same as the the other two, but with a different upgrade sprue)

What you'll actually get is this thread locked once again, for none of this is news & rumours

The Steamtank during the period should be a Special Character. Their were so few of them at this time their should be a limit on using them.

The War Wagon is a suitable replacement for the tank for this time period.

Can I hope they drop the save roll entirely and do as LotR (and many other games) by combining toughness and save into a single defence characteristic? That would then make ward saves extra special and very obviously something completely different, hopefully stemming the tide of “does +1 to saves help my parry roll” and similar.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
The Steamtank during the period should be a Special Character. Their were so few of them at this time their should be a limit on using them.

The War Wagon is a suitable replacement for the tank for this time period.

In 5th edition there WAS a limit - the Steam Tank was a 0-8 option, because the whole of the Empire only had 8. There used to be 12.

Personally, I'd like to be able to put the War Wagon crew on top of the Tank again.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
The Steamtank during the period should be a Special Character. Their were so few of them at this time their should be a limit on using them.

The War Wagon is a suitable replacement for the tank for this time period.

Surely there should be more of them, if anything? Only 12 were ever made and that number is only going down over time, the Empire doesn't have the means to reproduce them since the inventor died.

On the Eigth Edition for Life forum (https://eefl.freeforums.net ) there are some roumors from the user called Discoqing:

Mainly 7th ed rules, with some changes.
Subdued magic
360 arc of sight for some units
Random charging is gone. Back to double movement
Premeasuring is still a thing

Also the rulebook is already printed and they are going to release it by the end of this year.

That's a wish list.

 herjan1987 wrote:
On the Eigth Edition for Life forum (https://eefl.freeforums.net ) there are some roumors from the user called Discoqing:

Mainly 7th ed rules, with some changes.
Subdued magic
360 arc of sight for some units
Random charging is gone. Back to double movement
Premeasuring is still a thing

Also the rulebook is already printed and they are going to release it by the end of this year.

"Mainly" 7th Edt. rules... then list major reasons why it isnt 7th Edt.

Preameasuring and non random charges combined would make the game quite dull no? Add in 360 arcs and the game plays itself.

frogert_poj wrote:


"Mainly" 7th Edt. rules... then list major reasons why it isnt 7th Edt.

Preameasuring and non random charges combined would make the game quite dull no? Add in 360 arcs and the game plays itself.

Not that know anything more than he posted, but 360 arcs for mounted archers like Glade riders would be interesting.

To elabarate on preameasuring and non random charges, he keeps bringing up Kings of War, where as he says both mechanics work.

Here is link were he spreads, the info:

https://eefl.freeforums.net/thread/3235/?page=2

Its from the middle of the page and goes on till the last.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Paymaster Games wrote:
The Steamtank during the period should be a Special Character. Their were so few of them at this time their should be a limit on using them.

The War Wagon is a suitable replacement for the tank for this time period.

In 5th edition there WAS a limit - the Steam Tank was a 0-8 option, because the whole of the Empire only had 8. There used to be 12.

Personally, I'd like to be able to put the War Wagon crew on top of the Tank again.

You can run that Tank variant in 6th Edition. Just saying...




And I question the logic of 7th being the basis. It broke far more about 6th than it supposedly fixed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dysartes wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
Despite the success of AoS, blowing up the Old World is still one of GW's biggest mistakes to me.

It's certainly a mistake you'd be intimately familiar with, that's for sure.

This isn't your political circle-jerk board. Leave your political circle-jerk forum drama at the door, please.

Tsagualsa wrote:What you'll actually get is this thread locked once again, for none of this is news & rumours

Some people simply cannot help themselves...

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Can I hope they drop the save roll entirely and do as LotR (and many other games) by combining toughness and save into a single defence characteristic? That would then make ward saves extra special and very obviously something completely different, hopefully stemming the tide of “does +1 to saves help my parry roll” and similar.

Hard to say just how far they're willing to deviate from established design. So far we have this early statement from GW:

GW wrote:Warhammer: The Old World will gather up all our favourite mechanics from the 3rd edition to the 8th edition** and add new elements where needed to create something deeply familiar yet fresh and new.

It depends on how much you want to read into the new elements bit. At its least impactful, The Old World will be a "best of" ruleset and anything new is only introduced to mesh things together that weren't originally meant to go together. If you're a bit more hopeful, they'll reevaluate every old rule they plan to use to get a cohesive ruleset that has the advertised familiarity and don't shy away from bigger structural changes to the core rules to make things work better.

Armor saves are actually a good example of something that they should rethink. What you're asking for was mostly the case anyway in late Fantasy. Everyone and their dog was packing S5 and S6 weapons that negated most saves in the game, and no one bothered to spend points on optional light or heavy armor upgrades because you didn't get to use them anyway. This should be addressed, and rolling saves into toughness wouldn't be a half bad way of doing it I reckon. It would remove the double advantage of high strength attacks both getting to wound better and negating saves better at the same time. Might be warranted, considering high lethality is one of the bigger problems in modern GW games.

The question is if that goes well with the goal of providing a ruleset that's deeply familiar. Have a larger number of such rule changes and GW may lose the nostalgia bait effect they're going for.

I feel the eternal clash is whether you want a ruleset which works as an engine for players making decisions (both in list building and in game) - or whether you are just trying to model in rules what's down in game as if it existed in real life (i.e. verisimilitude).

So from a verisimilitude perspective, it probably makes sense that guys with two-handed weapons (to get S5/S6) are "good" into armoured infantry, cavalry, monsters etc. But since this arguably makes them "good into everything" you might want more gameplay dimensions than this (and it may prompt lots of arguments on melee weapon real life effectiveness vs each other). I agree, there's little point having armour upgrades that do nothing because everyone you want fighting is ignoring their benefit.

We had this in the Tomb Kings article:

Dan: We’ve taken a great deal of care to make the Undead work. It was vital that the rules presented balanced game mechanics while evoking the frightening image of rank upon rank of skeleton warriors marching in unison, as chariots speed towards the enemy flanked by monstrous constructs animated by the ancient magic of the Mortuary Cults. You will be able to wield the powers of a Liche Priest once more, commanding skeletal hordes to Arise! from their tombs and march upon the lands of the living.

Unfortunately it doesn't really tell us anything beyond "we want balanced game mechanics" but also "we want the rules to capture the feel of having skeletons walking forward together, chariots riding around etc" - i.e. verisimilitude.

 Just Tony wrote:
You can run that Tank variant in 6th Edition. Just saying...

And I question the logic of 7th being the basis. It broke far more about 6th than it supposedly fixed.

I agree... while I primarily played Fantasy during 7th and 8th, the former was broken as heck by the end.

I know a lot of that is the final army books being just off the chain, but it was nuts. I had a very fluffy forest spirit themed wood elf army, and I remember once getting tabled by a Daemon army and only killing 3 models!

Obviously, a bad matchup and not realizing my opponent was going to run his best tournament list played a part, but holy cow that edition was broken.

And then 8th incentivized huge blocks of infantry which were basically just filler... but wouldn't just removing that almost fix 8th? I had very little exposure to earlier editions so no idea on 6th / etc! But it seems likely that GW, like with 30k / Horus Heresy, would choose to build off the last version of the ruleset.

 herjan1987 wrote:
On the Eigth Edition for Life forum (https://eefl.freeforums.net ) there are some roumors from the user called Discoqing:

Mainly 7th ed rules, with some changes.
Subdued magic
360 arc of sight for some units
Random charging is gone. Back to double movement
Premeasuring is still a thing

Also the rulebook is already printed and they are going to release it by the end of this year.

Well better magic would be even more soul destroying and broken than it was already.
Premasuring = great
Non random charges -- rubbish choice
360 arc for some units - makes sense

from a verisimilitude perspective, it probably makes sense that guys with two-handed weapons (to get S5/S6) are "good" into armoured infantry, cavalry, monsters etc. But since this arguably makes them "good into everything" you might want more gameplay dimensions than this (and it may prompt lots of arguments on melee weapon real life effectiveness vs each other). I agree, there's little point having armour upgrades that do nothing because everyone you want fighting is ignoring their benefit.

Surely thats what points values are for? So if the Great Weapons are the best they cost more than other weapons. Throw in situational elements - like spears/pikes being good against cav etc....

Which R&F games out there, except those based on 8th Edition Warhammer, have random charges combined with pre-measuring?

 kodos wrote:
Which R&F games out there, except those based on 8th Edition Warhammer, have random charges combined with pre-measuring?

Conquest: Last Argument of Kings is move value + 1d6. A Song of Ice and Fire is the same. I'm sure I've picked up a few more random R&F rulebooks with it but those are the main two.

I like pre-measuring + non-random charges, with the caveat that scenario encourages that *somebody* has to take the first risk to get into charge range.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
That's a wish list.

A gentleman on EEFL says his friends are... not playtesting, but getting sneak previews, I guess? This is what he's reporting of their experience.

Know a guy who knows a guy who shot a guy and all that; take with the appropriate amount of salt. We'll all see if this is true or not by the end of the year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rihgu wrote:
with the caveat that scenario encourages that *somebody* has to take the first risk to get into charge range.

There are two ways to do that.

1) Make getting the charge completely irrelevant to who wins the subsequent combat. NO bonus to getting a charge in. No +1 combat res, no striking first, not even bonus S for lances and spears.

2) Random charge ranges.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
That's a wish list.

A gentleman on EEFL says his friends are... not playtesting, but getting sneak previews, I guess? This is what he's reporting of their experience.

Know a guy who knows a guy who shot a guy and all that; take with the appropriate amount of salt. We'll all see if this is true or not by the end of the year.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Rihgu wrote:
with the caveat that scenario encourages that *somebody* has to take the first risk to get into charge range.

There are two ways to do that.

1) Make getting the charge completely irrelevant to who wins the subsequent combat. NO bonus to getting a charge in. No +1 combat res, no striking first, not even bonus S for lances and spears.

2) Random charge ranges.

Or 3) Have scenarios that encourage that *somebody* has to take the first risk to get into charge range. Ie, an objective marker to claim/destroy.

 Just Tony wrote:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Paymaster Games wrote:
The Steamtank during the period should be a Special Character. Their were so few of them at this time their should be a limit on using them.

The War Wagon is a suitable replacement for the tank for this time period.

In 5th edition there WAS a limit - the Steam Tank was a 0-8 option, because the whole of the Empire only had 8. There used to be 12.

Personally, I'd like to be able to put the War Wagon crew on top of the Tank again.

You can run that Tank variant in 6th Edition. Just saying...

I know, and I did. It was my favorite build. I was sad when they removed the option.

 Rihgu wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Which R&F games out there, except those based on 8th Edition Warhammer, have random charges combined with pre-measuring?

Conquest: Last Argument of Kings is move value + 1d6. A Song of Ice and Fire is the same. I'm sure I've picked up a few more random R&F rulebooks with it but those are the main two.
I like pre-measuring + non-random charges, with the caveat that scenario encourages that *somebody* has to take the first risk to get into charge range.

this is somehow half way thru as you still have the fixed charge range (movement +1) but an extended threat range (even KoW has a trait to add random charge range in addition to the movement)
from the historical games I play, all have a fixed ranges, even the skirmish games, so the only good reason for random ranges I can see is that no one else is doing it and they want the game to be unique

 Vulcan wrote:

1) Make getting the charge completely irrelevant to who wins the subsequent combat. NO bonus to getting a charge in. No +1 combat res, no striking first, not even bonus S for lances and spears.
2) Random charge ranges.

and non of the games without random charge ranges is doing it and it still works
the difference for most games is simple that killing alone does not win the game, so standing in the back and never go into charge range will guarantee a los, no matter how many models you kill with shooting

I think half-random charges split the best of both worlds. D6+X, where X is/is based on movement.