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Just because they say they are, doesn't mean they will. Universal truth.

Beat me to it.

There are a lot of people coming from Total War or the older book series and asking for the game

if those are starting a game with 30 year old models and invest 600€ for an army will be seen

People were jumping onto LOTR, 40K AND AOS with decade/decades old models, I don't see the issue here except for people who've written this off as an abject failure from the get-go, who are also some of the loudest proponents of "Just play AOS, plebe!!!!"

I'm letting the dust settle before I make any calls. I'd call that prudent. Writing it off as DOA could leave you with just as much egg on your face as those that said the same thing about AOS.

 Just Tony wrote:
People were jumping onto LOTR, 40K AND AOS with decade/decades old models, I don't see the issue here except for people who've written this off as an abject failure from the get-go, who are also some of the loudest proponents of "Just play AOS, plebe!!!!"

Not sure that's true. Most people advocating to "just play" something else are KoW or 9th Agers in my experience.

 kodos wrote:
There are a lot of people coming from Total War or the older book series and asking for the game

if those are starting a game with 30 year old models and invest 600€ for an army will be seen

Nothing previewed so far is even close to 30 years old.

The oldest models shown to be used for TOW are the monopose Orcs from late 2000. Even if Tomb Kings get their regular Skeletons back, those are based on a kit from late 1998. Both of these are not even 25 years old. Old enough to buy drinks anywhere, but not in their 30s by any means. And if it is just about visual quality: apparently enough people buy the junk Mantic is selling, and those pre-2000 kits from GW are still better looking than that.

We also do not know if "600€ for an army" is a solid guess for a TOW army. Might be, might be not. People can start at lower levels, you know?

I don't know, we could just wait for the actual product to be around and form an opinion based on facts...

 Darnok wrote:
I don't know, we could just wait for the actual product to be around and form an opinion based on facts...

But then people wouldn't be able to get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

 Darnok wrote:
I don't know, we could just wait for the actual product to be around and form an opinion based on facts...

But then people wouldn't be able to get their exercise jumping to conclusions.

Game will come out sometime in 2026.

Keep jumping lads.

The Bretonnian sprue which was leaked the other day is now on EBay. There is a new, clearer picture of the ‘games workshop limited 2023’ bit of the sprue.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256188148077?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RSUfjuSCTqm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yunk-rv-q9i&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

MvR wrote:
The Bretonnian sprue which was leaked the other day is now on EBay. There is a new, clearer picture of the ‘games workshop limited 2023’ bit of the sprue.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256188148077?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RSUfjuSCTqm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yunk-rv-q9i&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Hmm, so what are the odds this will be the 2023 Christmas miniature?

 Shakalooloo wrote:

MvR wrote:
The Bretonnian sprue which was leaked the other day is now on EBay. There is a new, clearer picture of the ‘games workshop limited 2023’ bit of the sprue.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256188148077?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RSUfjuSCTqm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yunk-rv-q9i&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Hmm, so what are the odds this will be the 2023 Christmas miniature?

My guess, and I think this will come out this year, is this is the bertonnian hero from the launch box, which is why it’s in plastic and not resin. If the rumours a true, then we will likely have a new plastic tomb kings model to go with it too. Rest of the box possibly older kits.

 Darnok wrote:
I don't know, we could just wait for the actual product to be around and form an opinion based on facts...

than ask the mods to close that topic and not upen it again until there are some "facts" haven't had anything in 4 years now
and no, a WC article saying "soon" does not add any facts

MvR wrote:
The Bretonnian sprue which was leaked the other day is now on EBay. There is a new, clearer picture of the ‘games workshop limited 2023’ bit of the sprue.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256188148077?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=RSUfjuSCTqm&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=yunk-rv-q9i&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Its been pulled, i guess GW got wiff and put a stop to it

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Hmm, so what are the odds this will be the 2023 Christmas miniature?

A Knight before Christmas?

 Gert wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Hmm, so what are the odds this will be the 2023 Christmas miniature?

A Knight before Christmas?

‘Twas, yes..

Valete,

JohnS

I don't know about everyone else but I tried KoW/9th age and wasn't a fan of either. The fun element was lacking from both but for different reasons. Hoping ToW captures that again and gets people excited to play/start new armies. Otherwise we will be back to our current options we have available.

Have you tried Warhammer Armies Project? Many say that it is more true to the WHFB experience and unlike 9th Age it wasn't written to be a competitively balanced iteration of the game that sucked all the character and narrative out of the ruleset.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Have you tried Warhammer Armies Project? Many say that it is more true to the WHFB experience and unlike 9th Age it wasn't written to be a competitively balanced iteration of the game that sucked all the character and narrative out of the ruleset.

The only retro system that seems to have a game a month per player into it, is Warhammer Rennesaince, if you ask me.

Most wap people seem to mostly be active on fb, and rarely actually plays it.

Just my impression

Renaissance is the only modified/homebrew system that seems to get much play.

People still play the hell out of 6th though.

 Ktulhut wrote:
Renaissance is the only modified/homebrew system that seems to get much play.

People still play the hell out of 6th though.

Never heard of Renaissance. And people play a lot of 8th too. It's all a matter about what circle of players you're in and what the locals are interested into, in the end. That goes for all "dead games".

 nathan2004 wrote:
I don't know about everyone else but I tried KoW/9th age and wasn't a fan of either. The fun element was lacking from both but for different reasons. Hoping ToW captures that again and gets people excited to play/start new armies. Otherwise we will be back to our current options we have available.

I'll be honest with you : I feel we won't get back to the past days we remember as old Warhammer Battle players, because times simply have changed. Reason why these 2 games felt not fun to you is because they're not Battle and they never were (also they're written with the competitive scene in mind and thinking "tighter rules / less randomness" is better - which is not necessarily the case).

To me, it's a question of nostalgia and habit : I still have the references of Battle rules and the table of to-hit / to-wound from that time in my memory, everything comes to me naturally. But these rules are not "fun" in themselves, it's the games we played with them that were. And it was mostly a question of enjoying our time with our fellow players.

I'm a bit worried TOW will actually end up like Horus Heresy : yes, the old players were happy to see the rules were quite faithful to the precedent version, but do we see more players playing in stores and such ? No, because the old players keep playing like they always did for all those years : in their own circles. With Battle being dead and going "underworld", players actually kept playing but also in their own circles. And as recent years keep passing (with their own crisis happening, let's not forget it had an impact on our way to play), people tend to still play in their own circles / echo chamber.

We don't see much new players in HH because the rules are old, the game isn't easy to learn and take a lot of time just to play. And let's be realist : game habits have also changed now. I'm feeling TOW looks like it will follow the exact same way so far...

Are you sure about that, because locally HH does well funnily enough with new blood and old blood alike joining in.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Are you sure about that, because locally HH does well funnily enough with new blood and old blood alike joining in.

Playing in stores, we sure don't see it as much since the first (re)release. At least, that's what I'm seeing in my own local one.

We don't see much new players in HH because you can't build a functional army without a massive investment into FW or 3d printing.

You can bet TOW will have similar hurdles, there's no way GW relaunches... did they say 8 factions?... with a full range right off the bat, so unless you have stuff lying around now, you have no real chance to play on the same level as the grognards.

I've never even heard of Warhammer Renaissance. Going to have to look it up.

HH locally had a surge in popularity and then it declined into occasionally seeing a couple guys play it once every couple weeks. Most of the people that bought in haven't played at all or don't play actively. I expect the same with TOW.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I've never even heard of Warhammer Renaissance. Going to have to look it up.

HH locally had a surge in popularity and then it declined into occasionally seeing a couple guys play it once every couple weeks. Most of the people that bought in haven't played at all or don't play actively. I expect the same with TOW.

That was the rule with WHFB too, wasnt it? For every 5 guys buying the starter set, maybe 1 actually played more than a handful games in his warhammer career... something like that.

Even fewer actually painted and assembled a 1500 pts army or more, and actually played it. Perhaps as few as 10% of everyone who started up in the hobby, imo. I believe thats why much of the appeal of latter day Mordheim, you can actually get games (done in an hour or two, and assemble a warband in a weel or even less and for a reasonable sum).

Edit : sorry, I posted in the wrong thread...

 triplegrim wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I've never even heard of Warhammer Renaissance. Going to have to look it up.

HH locally had a surge in popularity and then it declined into occasionally seeing a couple guys play it once every couple weeks. Most of the people that bought in haven't played at all or don't play actively. I expect the same with TOW.

That was the rule with WHFB too, wasnt it? For every 5 guys buying the starter set, maybe 1 actually played more than a handful games in his warhammer career... something like that.

Even fewer actually painted and assembled a 1500 pts army or more, and actually played it. Perhaps as few as 10% of everyone who started up in the hobby, imo. I believe thats why much of the appeal of latter day Mordheim, you can actually get games (done in an hour or two, and assemble a warband in a weel or even less and for a reasonable sum).

I think that was probably one of those things that was highly dependent on your area. When it still had "main game" status there were many areas where there were active and thriving communities regularly playing the game with its own dedicated night of the week at the local hobby shop, similar to 40k. There were also areas where nobody touched it at all. I have encountered both types of areas in my time. Horus Heresy has the same issue as Necromunda, Titanicus, Aeronautica, Blood Bowl, etc. - its not a main game and not what people bring to the store for pickup games, because the likelihood of finding an opponent is smaller than if you showed up with 40k.

Ok lets discuss every other game system right here.
Only rule is, you have to discuss stuff with sweeping statements and/or personal anecdotes.

 Fayric wrote:
Ok lets discuss every other game system right here.
Only rule is, you have to discuss stuff with sweeping statements and/or personal anecdotes.

Yeah. Or maybe you dont understand how to read what we others are writing. Probably more likely, using occams razor, than everyone else incapable of discussing the previous hobby scene we were part of?

Dunno how that peggyknight ended up on ebay, but I can tell you there is no TOW game coming 2023 or 2024. Perhaps gw even saw Total War as competition to their TT game and decided it would be released only as Total War ends its run?

 triplegrim wrote:


Dunno how that peggyknight ended up on ebay, but I can tell you there is no TOW game coming 2023 or 2024. Perhaps gw even saw Total War as competition to their TT game and decided it would be released only as Total War ends its run?

I’d take that bet any day of the week. GW is not teasing models for something it’s not releasing for 2 more years.

I bet we see something by Christmas.