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What excite me the most about this leak is ... the box The Skeletons are ugly (wasn't a fan when they were released, still not a fan now). You get a healthy amount of them at least, but will be fun seeing people online having to build so many after getting 76 of them! The Skeleton Horsemen are fine to me (especially with the TK bits), static poses but fine enough sculpt. I acquired a ton of them near the end of 8th though so I have more than most TK players will ever need. Chariots I have a healthy amount already so I don't think I'll need more of them. The new more is OK-ish, not something that will push me to get the box to get it. I already have over a dozen characters of all type (fighters and wizards), so the interest is low for it.

But as a general collector and fan of the army, yeah I'd like that box the most

It's a good box to jump into the army no doubt (in terms of number of minis and them being the core of the army), but the sculpt will be hit-or-miss a lot and many will be put off by getting that box or starting the army because of that. The Skeletons at a bare minimum should have been remade (even at the same size to match the horsemen and charioteers).

Before getting too excited at how fast these'll sell, it's still Games Workshop. I can easily imagine them dropping a massive price tag on these things and watching as the world goes, "Ehhh..."

I'm pretty sure The Ash Wastes is still sitting on Amazon at half off. And the Dominion starter... my God!

I'm interested to see how they handle the character model situation too. Not enough of them made it into hard plastic. And their $30 for one guy pricing of plastic hero models, well that too is an issue for this game.

Though maybe they'll drop these starter boxes at $200 and bundle up terrible resin character models together for a discount too, who knows.

My guess is between $200 and $300 for the army boxes.

It feels like GW should pay me money to take the old skeletons off their hands. I don't know what the price for this box is going to be (other than hilarious), but about the only way they could get me to buy it is if it wasn't more than the retail prices of the crocodragon and rulebook combined.

 Irbis wrote:
Now that I took second look, it might not be so bad if you buy GW plastic skull set (with 4756673 skulls in it), chop away ugly pumpkins these have as heads, and pin the new, nice skulls in their place. It will take tons of effort and time but at least 80% of the fugly will be gone

It wouldn't even be any work. The spine has a flat top and the skulls from the skull box are level enough on the bottom that a decent drop of plastic cement will get the job done just fine.

The biggest loss is the headgear, especially if you go on to replace your Tomb Guard heads to match.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Given how many of the models already in my collection are 20 years old or more, I have absolutely no issue with the return of the old skeletons.

The issue isn't that they're old. There are plenty of great models that are ancient. The issue is that they're awful models to put together.

I've had an Old World sycophant on Discord tell me these skeletons are better than the Vyper!

So these are the old skellies, cav and chariots? How very disappointing.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Given how many of the models already in my collection are 20 years old or more, I have absolutely no issue with the return of the old skeletons.

The issue isn't that they're old. There are plenty of great models that are ancient. The issue is that they're awful models to put together.

I've had an Old World sycophant on Discord tell me these skeletons are better than the Vyper!

Having done both... no. I've have far more visceral memories of rage and frustration as the skellies collapse under their own weight, and little tiny nubs for joins are broken or just missing from the cast.
I definitely can't imagine that the latter situation will be better years later, unless they replaced the old moulds (which to be frank, seems unlikely)

It in part comes down to pricing, but unless GW make the units cheap and I mean 40 skellies for the cost of a box of intercessors type cheap, I can't see anyone seriously wanting to go out and be excited to buy 1998 skeletons for what will likely be maintained as a niche game.

Worse than the god awful old minis, if they haven't learned the lesson regards the price point restricting access to the game, it'll be as dead in a couple of years as it was at the end of 8th anyway.

I mean the AoS redux launch (i.e. the first real ruleset) should show gw is capable doing the pricing right to ignite a game. I'm cautiously optimistic.

I'll be sticking with my chaos dwarves and pdf army list I think, at least until they release enough resculpted/new minis that I can build an army around them without needing to bother with the older kits. While the tomb kings box (and presumably the bretonnian box) might come at an appealing price, I just... I can't justify spending money on most of those old kits. The only ones I'm kinda ok with are the Bretonnian peasant bowmen and men at arms, but Im absolutely not getting the old mounted knights.

Hold on.

Where’s the Liche Priest(s).

Can’t have Skellingtons with a Wif-Waf knocking about.

It's riding the dragon. You can also have it on foot and the king riding the dragon, per the preview.

But the dragon kit builds a priest and a tomb king, 1 riding and 1 on foot, in either combination.

Isn't the dude on the croc-o-drak a liche priest?

 Rihgu wrote:
It's riding the dragon. You can also have it on foot and the king riding the dragon, per the preview.

But the dragon kit builds a priest and a tomb king, 1 riding and 1 on foot, in either combination.

I think it's only the Tomb King that can be on foot:

This kit builds either a Tomb King or a High Priest on Necrolith Bone Dragon, each with their own palanquin.* The High Priest has a tasteful canopy, shielding his delicate mummified skin from further bleaching in the sun – and if you choose him, you can also make a Monarch of Nehekhara on foot, to lead the charge from terra firma.

Ahhh! Missed that bit.

Aged and not very good on release models aside? Not a bad boxed set. Looks to be a force large enough for 1,5000, maybe 2,000 at a push.

I actually wonder why you can build Tomb King on foot if Priest is on Crocodile (it is!) but not the otherway around.

 Sotahullu wrote:
I actually wonder why you can build Tomb King on foot if Priest is on Crocodile (it is!) but not the otherway around.

I think it's simply because the king is standing in the howdah on the dragon, so the pose is the same on the ground (with different arms), while the liche is sitting on a chair, thus cannot really be used on foot (but nothing stopping him to bring his chair with him to rest on the battlefield!).

Comparing the prices, if the boxes are in line with HH, we are looking at 250€ total and 180€ for the Box
Is it more in line with AoS, it is 350€ total and 250€ for the box

bigger question is, how many will be needed for an army
as the same box is 1400 points without dragon in 6th Edition, or 900 without dragon in 8th which is a big difference
also the question if you can actually bring a dragon in 2k points game

2k has generally allowed dragons before evee when big monsters restricted. Don't see changing.

1 box probably enough unless you want tons of options including 3k with options

 Skywave wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
I actually wonder why you can build Tomb King on foot if Priest is on Crocodile (it is!) but not the otherway around.

I think it's simply because the king is standing in the howdah on the dragon, so the pose is the same on the ground (with different arms), while the liche is sitting on a chair, thus cannot really be used on foot but nothing stopping him to bring his chair with him to rest on the battlefield!).

A chapter master, a fat Genestealer and even another liche did it before, so why not?

It looks to be about 830pts of unupgraded models, without the Dragon and assuming that the points are as per 8E.
The LHP used to be 175pts and a Dragon is typically ~300 so 500pts for a bare LHP on Dragon seems like a good start.

Of course there are command groups, magic items and wizard levels on top. 1500pts seems a reasonable floor even if 40% of your list are on characters

Well, we may see Skellingtons coming with a lower base cost because Combat Res is no longer “all or nothing”.

When it was, completely unbreakable units were a menace, and a canny, cunning opponent would quickly learn how to tar pit you, with a flank charge ready to go in their turn.

Now Skellies can presumably be pushed back, and everyone else has a built in a pretty solid protection against Brown Trousers, being Unbreakable is still good, just not as good as it used to be.

Of course, Skellingtons came with crap stats. Low WS, low I. And we can’t take for granted that might not have been changed.

Sorry, I’m whimbriling

My local group has it at about 1700pts in WAP. It's a solid start to an army. And outside of the cavalry you'll probably use most of it. Even the cavalry could be 3x5 redirect horse archers which is not terrible.

I don't love that they didn't resculpt the skellies but at the same time I don't actually hate the skellies with TK heads and shields. Are the new VC ones better. Sure. But I don't mind the look. Now BUILDING the old ones dear god.....

Yeah Horse Archers were a must in my games, always had one unit, very very often had 2, and even had a third just in case (units of 6). Main opponent was orcs so it was my prime Fanatic magnet unit too

Regular Horsemen were more meh, but still could be fun to use, but in no mean reliable or a good unit! They were also fast enough to throw forward to distract and redirect and help protect Chariots (I don't remember if they were cheaper than the archer ones tho).

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Skywave wrote:

 Sotahullu wrote:
I actually wonder why you can build Tomb King on foot if Priest is on Crocodile (it is!) but not the otherway around.

I think it's simply because the king is standing in the howdah on the dragon, so the pose is the same on the ground (with different arms), while the liche is sitting on a chair, thus cannot really be used on foot but nothing stopping him to bring his chair with him to rest on the battlefield!).

A chapter master, a fat Genestealer and even another liche did it before, so why not?

Spoiler:

Thank you for these, I’ve never seen any of these sculpts and I very much enjoyed seeing these (no sarcasm).

GW is using drug dealer tactics here, get people to pick up the core of their army via army boxes and fill out with special/rare as they see fit (knights, stalkers, guard for TK).

That strategy appeals to me and hey if the game is successful, maybe in time they redo the old skellies.

Well I am certainly interested enough to grab the rulebook and can be quite handy if it includes army lists.

tneva82 wrote:
2k has generally allowed dragons before evee when big monsters restricted. Don't see changing.

yeah, were heroes were restricted by numbers, while with the points restriction is is different
you cannot have a 600 point hero model at 2k when there is 25% restriction, even if there is no limit on monsters

and there was a reason why 3k was the standard during that time, people bought a dragon and they wanted to use them

 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
2k has generally allowed dragons before evee when big monsters restricted. Don't see changing.

yeah, were heroes were restricted by numbers, while with the points restriction is is different
you cannot have a 600 point hero model at 2k when there is 25% restriction, even if there is no limit on monsters

and there was a reason why 3k was the standard during that time, people bought a dragon and they wanted to use them

I can't remember a 25% restriction on characters, it was usually 50%. Monsters had a 25% cap, but as mounts of a character they were purchased from the character part.

It was 50% Lords and Heroes towards the end of 8th edition. First part of 8th was 25% Lords, 25% Heroes. Can't remember when that cap changed but it was in the FAQs for the rulebook I believe. Might have been End Times especially considering how many characters came out of those books.

We wont know until we learn how army construction works. Could be % based, or it could go to the limits from 6th with Lords only at 2000pts.

My guess would be % based but well see.