Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Someone might want to FAQ Chaos Warriors though as the 6e style saves put several WOC players I know on suicide watch.

They want the save to become even worse? We can work with that...

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

The normal ones, no. Chosen have Chaos armour and the option of full plate though.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

Chosen and characters do, I don't think normal warriors do.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Someone might want to FAQ Chaos Warriors though as the 6e style saves put several WOC players I know on suicide watch.

They want the save to become even worse? We can work with that...

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Someone might want to FAQ Chaos Warriors though as the 6e style saves put several WOC players I know on suicide watch.

They want the save to become even worse? We can work with that...

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

Assuming ward saves work like in the past yes. However it is still wierd that chaos armour is now a ward save on a Heavy ? Full plate? Didn't yet got my terminology right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pgmason wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

Chosen and characters do, I don't think normal warriors do.

OOF, if that is the case then just no. Just no. Why ever field something other than chosen and barbarians then, you just flat out are worse off in an army that still has no tactical ranged tools beyond a piece of artillery.

Chosen are 0-1 units per army so you can't really build an army around them. At least not until they release an army of infamy that says otherwise.

Hellcannons appear to have been heavily nerfed as well.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Someone might want to FAQ Chaos Warriors though as the 6e style saves put several WOC players I know on suicide watch.

They want the save to become even worse? We can work with that...

Don’t they all get chaos armour wards now? So two saves per hit?

Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Chaos warriors seem to sit on the same place. One pip less of armor but attacks have less AP, so they stay the same. Some gain ward save on top, so they are actually better protected (plus harder to hit by low WS attackers)...

WS5, 4+ armour, -1 AP and enemies rerolling 6s to hit for 16pts doesn't seem so awful?

Vorian wrote:
WS5, 4+ armour, -1 AP and enemies rerolling 6s to hit for 16pts doesn't seem so awful?

Chaos warriors initially were 15 pts, with the same armor and AP since they were baseline S 4 and flatline access to a 6+ wardsave through the mark of tzeentch. You didn't see very many of them then i doubt you will see very many of them now. Especially if morale gets more important and they seem to have lost their "will of chaos" rule.

They are still baseline S4 and the mark of undivided seems to just be a better version of Will of Chaos, I think

I can't find a decent copy of their 8th entry, are they not -1AS and -1 A third edition compared to their previous incarnation?

chaos0xomega wrote:
Chosen are 0-1 units per army so you can't really build an army around them. At least not until they release an army of infamy that says otherwise.

Hellcannons appear to have been heavily nerfed as well.

All artillery has been reduced - same as magic for the most part - although annoyingly the hex spells still seem to "remain in play "but are not "remain in play" spells so can;t be dispelled for... reasons.

Armour saves seem to be much more important now as Ap is much rarer, you more than just having high strength

Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Manfred von Drakken wrote:Ugh - minimum 65 bucks on Ebay...

Ugh. Never mind. I'll be happy with what I got...

From the Link Tank thread? Something of interest to Old Grognard. Around 11 minutes in, straight from the Horse’s Mouth, some interesting history on the origin of Tammurkhan and in turn, AoS.

Basically? The CEO asked Rick Priestley to do Tammurkhan as a reboot of WHFB, then plans changed.

This is not stuff I’ve seen people really discuss before, so seems to be new information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwl2QKEyFHg

Hmm. Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos seems to be released 2011 by google?

So CEO asks to do it as reboot of WHFB, it gets released, plans change and roughly year later AOS development begins.

Guess plan was for this to lead to 9th ed then.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Who knows! I’m sharing solely as “I didn’t know that, and I don’t recall anyone else mentioning it before”. And given this is about as primary a source as we can reasonably expect, figured it was well worth sharing,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Bizarrely, no. You’d think they would, but they don’t. And so they never particularly appealed to me as a player.

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Normal halberds, no.
Phoenix guard have special halberds that do.

Halberd never gave extra rank in FB. It was extra strenght(and with that AP generally) without strike last disadvantage of GW.

Extra rank came a thing in AOS due to 2" reach.

Sorry what's Tammurkhan?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sorry what's Tammurkhan?

The Everchosen before Archaon.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Well it used to go on a ramage and eat its crew / other people?

 Mr Morden wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Well it used to go on a ramage and eat its crew / other people?

or blow up ALL mages.

The issue is however more, that WOC only have this thing as ranged and artillery available.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Well it used to go on a ramage and eat its crew / other people?

or blow up ALL mages.

The issue is however more, that WOC only have this thing as ranged and artillery available.

Well, and horsemen with throwing spears.
And if you really want, ungors with bows and cygors as allies.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
From the Link Tank thread? Something of interest to Old Grognard. Around 11 minutes in, straight from the Horse’s Mouth, some interesting history on the origin of Tammurkhan and in turn, AoS.

Basically? The CEO asked Rick Priestley to do Tammurkhan as a reboot of WHFB, then plans changed.

This is not stuff I’ve seen people really discuss before, so seems to be new information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwl2QKEyFHg

Thats fascinating, not sure how I can see it as being a reboot for the setting or anything though. Narratively it didn't seem to... do that much?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Well it used to go on a ramage and eat its crew / other people?

Yes, but it was more controllable and harder to make that happen before. Now it has two chances to misfire per turn instead of just one as before - if the caged fury test fails it misfires rather than running rampant like it used to, on top of the potential to misfire when attacking. When it misfires, a 1 on the table removes the cannon from play and everything within 3d6" takes d6 S5 AP-1 hits. On a 2-4 it eats one of its handlers, on a 5-6 it moves 3d6 using the random movement rules. Now that partial hits are back, even if it doesn't misfire its potential damage output is curtailed somewhat.

It would have to have been plan for future. Since that came as supplement for 8e in 2011 it obviously was not meant reboot in itself.

Sounds more like it was supposed to lead to 9e akin to how end times led to aos. Less dramatic probably.

Then year since release they threw that idea and started to work on aos

Voss wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yes, but the hellcannons nerfing has a lot to do with its own special rules - misfires cause some serious problems for it (and potentially the rest of your army).

Well it used to go on a ramage and eat its crew / other people?

or blow up ALL mages.

The issue is however more, that WOC only have this thing as ranged and artillery available.

Well, and horsemen with throwing spears.

Technically yes, practically never.

And if you really want, ungors with bows and cygors as allies.

Shortbows. As it were, they were diffrent from normal ones afaik.

Voss wrote:

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Normal halberds, no.
Phoenix guard have special halberds that do.

Because of course they do! Just another reason I hated fighting High Elves...

 KidCthulhu wrote:

Voss wrote:

 Aesthete wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Only Chosen, Warriors with halberds are looking pretty garbage with no step up and only 5 ups when taking a cavalry charge. Wonder how wide formations will get with no step up to account for that, or Warriors, if taken at all, will be sticking to HWw/S or GW.

Don't halberds allow them to fight in an extra rank?

Normal halberds, no.
Phoenix guard have special halberds that do.

Because of course they do! Just another reason I hated fighting High Elves...

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the complaints about the unit being nerfed are real loud. (The 4+ ward save went to a 6+, iirc) And white lions are their own set of complaints, for their axes not being special enough (still 'strike last,' (plus elven reflexes and/or charge modifiers))

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Sorry what's Tammurkhan?

The Everchosen before Archaon.

He wasn’t an Everchosen (the last one was Asavar Kul who will be important for TOW)

He was a Nurgle Chaos Lord who invaded the Empire via Blackfire Pass and attacked Nuln.

FW did a book about him and made a model.