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GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.




Honestly I think Slaves were a neat idea; but visually as you used Clan Rat models they weren't adding anything to the table; and they added a LOT of bulk to just starting a Skaven army with models that were 100% chaff to die. I know they are thematic to have, but I just don't think they ever really worked great in a practical real world sense (which doesn't mean people didn't use them of course)

 insaniak wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Then again, if GW won't produce minis for the legacy armies at all, why not retain the options?

Because if those options don't exist in the back catalogue, their existence in the rules just encourages third party model makers to produce and profit from them. And that's money people could be spending on MTO kits instead...

That ship has sailed the moment they published rules without selling models tho... in which Core factions are actually far worse offenders than Legacy... ToW Facebook groups are absolutely flooded with pictures of 3d prints.

 Overread wrote:
GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.




Honestly I think Slaves were a neat idea; but visually as you used Clan Rat models they weren't adding anything to the table; and they added a LOT of bulk to just starting a Skaven army with models that were 100% chaff to die. I know they are thematic to have, but I just don't think they ever really worked great in a practical real world sense (which doesn't mean people didn't use them of course)

I once knew a guy whose Skaven Slaves units were composed of models from various armies. All sorts of captured slaves.

 Overread wrote:
GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.

I suspect if they do get the rumoured make over this summer with AoS 4th Ed, then they will probably retire some of the more 'TOW useful' units for the bigger and more dynamic minis to stop people picking them up for TOW.

I'd not be surprised if plague monks, clan rats and the last of the metals will go.

I've picked up everything baring about two more units worth of plastics at this point just to be sure I dont have to chase down 2nd stuff this time next year. At worst I've just double my skaven army

 Mallo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.

I suspect if they do get the rumoured make over this summer with AoS 4th Ed, then they will probably retire some of the more 'TOW useful' units for the bigger and more dynamic minis to stop people picking them up for TOW.

I'd not be surprised if plague monks, clan rats and the last of the metals will go.

I've picked up everything baring about two more units worth of plastics at this point just to be sure I dont have to chase down 2nd stuff this time next year. At worst I've just double my skaven army

+

I can't see them outright retiring clan rats - replacing perhaps but not retiring. Same for Plague Monks and to remove both would remove all the infantry from the army!

It will be interesting to see what GW does do with an eventual skaven update. I could see weapon teams either vanish (since there are stormvermin) or get replaced with a multipart kit that you just change a few parts on for each weapon.

I expect they'll pick one clan and expand on it with a bunch of new highly flanderized units.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Then again, if GW won't produce minis for the legacy armies at all, why not retain the options?

Because if those options don't exist in the back catalogue, their existence in the rules just encourages third party model makers to produce and profit from them. And that's money people could be spending on MTO kits instead...

Which without production will happen regardless ?

To some degree, yes. But there will always be a core of players who would prefer to use the official models, whether by sourcing them second hand or waiting for MTO or other re-releases. \

Ultimately, they've drawn a line between encouraging those with existing collections to use them, and encouraging other manufacturers to make models for GW's game. There's always going to be some crossover, but 'options we never made ourselves' is a fairly easy and understandable place to draw that line.

Given they have included a Warhammer Quest model in the Brettonian made to order I am hoping they do similar for the exclusive models from the Warhammer Quest Lair of the Orc Lord expansion as those models would make good generic leaders for a Green Skin Army.

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, so kind of off topic. But if GW is bringing back the Old World for The Old World, is there any chance of them bringing back say Mordheim?

Zero.

The (main?) designer of Mordheim, was a finnish fan dude who made loads of fan edits to warhammer. Got a job offer when GW saw his work and worked in Nottingham for some years.

He's still active and around the Mordheim fb pages. He's said theres not any Mordheim coming whatsoever, and that he'd know if it did.

Also the fanbase of Mordheim is one of those rare fan communities (bc its based on 3d printing terrain I suppose) that wouldnt really care for a rerelease. Maaaaaybe if it was the old set with cardboard building and everything, but nah.

 triplegrim wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, so kind of off topic. But if GW is bringing back the Old World for The Old World, is there any chance of them bringing back say Mordheim?

Zero.

The (main?) designer of Mordheim, was a finnish fan dude who made loads of fan edits to warhammer. Got a job offer when GW saw his work and worked in Nottingham for some years.

He's still active and around the Mordheim fb pages. He's said theres not any Mordheim coming whatsoever, and that he'd know if it did.

Also the fanbase of Mordheim is one of those rare fan communities (bc its based on 3d printing terrain I suppose) that wouldnt really care for a rerelease. Maaaaaybe if it was the old set with cardboard building and everything, but nah.

He was also a key designer on WFB 6th ed as well alongside Rick.

Ah fair enough, thanks for the info!

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Ah fair enough, thanks for the info!

Mordheim is a perfect size for the specialist studio though, it's WFB necromunda. But they've never made a spin off of a spin off, so it would probably be a low chance.

They could release the patrol rules they did for small WFB games. There was quite a lot of different WFB playstyle games. They have no Siege rules in TOW.

 triplegrim wrote:

 NH Gunsmith wrote:
Hmm, so kind of off topic. But if GW is bringing back the Old World for The Old World, is there any chance of them bringing back say Mordheim?

Zero.

The (main?) designer of Mordheim, was a finnish fan dude who made loads of fan edits to warhammer. Got a job offer when GW saw his work and worked in Nottingham for some years.

He's still active and around the Mordheim fb pages. He's said theres not any Mordheim coming whatsoever, and that he'd know if it did.

Also the fanbase of Mordheim is one of those rare fan communities (bc its based on 3d printing terrain I suppose) that wouldnt really care for a rerelease. Maaaaaybe if it was the old set with cardboard building and everything, but nah.

They didn't have the original designer of Necromunda when they re-did that game either, so I don't see how Mr Pirinen no longer working for GW prevents them from working that IP.

 Hellebore wrote:
Mordheim is a perfect size for the specialist studio though, it's WFB necromunda. But they've never made a spin off of a spin off, so it would probably be a low chance.

GW currently markets three games that begin with "Horus Heresy:"

Yeah.

I think Mordheim has a decent chance of coming back. GW have clearly discovered the benefits of selling their back catalogue - and its sitting right there.

From GW's perspective, if you just do a few basic factions, its not exactly a huge release.

Arguably the core demographic is probably already catered to by Underworlds and Warcry (I assume someone somewhere plays this) and a range of other games. But it would be a big box for people at Christmas/Summer etc.

 Mallo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.

I suspect if they do get the rumoured make over this summer with AoS 4th Ed, then they will probably retire some of the more 'TOW useful' units for the bigger and more dynamic minis to stop people picking them up for TOW.

I'd not be surprised if plague monks, clan rats and the last of the metals will go.

Yeah there 0% chance they do that. Just rn now Pestilence (Plague monks, Censer bearer and Priest) and Eshin (Gutter runners) just got a Underworld warband.

The metal units + Clan rats is like almost all the skaven model range so there no chance they'll gut 75% of the faction and alter it to something radically different for a legacy faction. Like if they did why wasn't a core faction from the start?

 Platuan4th wrote:

Voss wrote:

 skeleton wrote:
Didn't slings come white the nightrunners, i do have slings with my nightrunners.

Both units had sling options.
But nightrunner monkey-rat arms don't match the old metal slaves or the better plastic clanrats.

But this kit existed:

Spoiler:

Yes it did. And SOOOO glad a bought a bunch of them when I had the chance! Of course, now I don’t really know what I’ll field them as in TOW.

Valete,

JohnS

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Mordheim is a perfect size for the specialist studio though, it's WFB necromunda. But they've never made a spin off of a spin off, so it would probably be a low chance.

GW currently markets three games that begin with "Horus Heresy:"

I considered that, but they are distinctly different from each other, from the game rules to the miniatures.

Mordheim as it was, was just a WFB game using only characters - the empire militia box is just the plastic mordheim models. Mordheim reused WFB army units for most of its warband unit types. They kept necromunda gangs completely separate from 40k, it was only in the campaigns you found standard 40k models like eldar rangers, marines and genestealers.

I actually played a lot of mordheim with just my WFB models - my dwarf warband especially.


Would love to be wrong though.

 Hellebore wrote:
Mordheim as it was, was just a WFB game using only characters - the empire militia box is just the plastic mordheim models. Mordheim reused WFB army units for most of its warband unit types. They kept necromunda gangs completely separate from 40k, it was only in the campaigns you found standard 40k models like eldar rangers, marines and genestealers.

Warcry uses custom warbands like Necromunda. A re-booted Mordheim could follow more in the Kill Team direction, Old World units fighting skirmishes, with their units serving as a dual release for two systems.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Mordheim as it was, was just a WFB game using only characters - the empire militia box is just the plastic mordheim models. Mordheim reused WFB army units for most of its warband unit types. They kept necromunda gangs completely separate from 40k, it was only in the campaigns you found standard 40k models like eldar rangers, marines and genestealers.

Warcry uses custom warbands like Necromunda. A re-booted Mordheim could follow more in the Kill Team direction, Old World units fighting skirmishes, with their units serving as a dual release for two systems.

Absolutely, I'm just worried that the killteam treatment is not something a specialist game is going to get. That was my initial apprehension.

Unless WFB ends up so big it brings in AoS/40k money. Which would be nice.

Were Sisters of Sigmar and Witch Hunters WHFB units?

 Altruizine wrote:
Were Sisters of Sigmar and Witch Hunters WHFB units?

Witch hunters were characters. The sisters of sigmas were not.

 Altruizine wrote:
Were Sisters of Sigmar and Witch Hunters WHFB units?

Sisters were one of the few truly unique units in Mordheim. The core 6 from the rulebook - mercenaries, skaven, sisters, witch hunters, possessed, undead, were mostly standard WFB with the sisters being the most unique. The possessed were just chaos, with some cool mutations, the undead had I think 1 model that was not in WFB, the Dreg character which was basically the Igor.

My undead warband was 1 vampire, 2 dregs, 3 ghouls and 1 zombie. Because I like to be different.


As they began releasing new warbands, they started getting more original. Carnival of chaos for example.

But the elf, dwarf and orc warbands were just WFB models really.

Hellebore, I would argue Possessed warbands were unique to Morhdeim. The cultists were Empire humans, not Marauders and the Possessed units themselves were completely absent from Warhammer rules-wise. There were the fantasy equivalent of Inquisitorial Daemonhosts.

 KidCthulhu wrote:
Hellebore, I would argue Possessed warbands were unique to Morhdeim. The cultists were Empire humans, not Marauders and the Possessed units themselves were completely absent from Warhammer rules-wise. There were the fantasy equivalent of Inquisitorial Daemonhosts.

I'm ambivalent on them. Gifts of the gods for chaos characters gave them all sorts of mutations. Archaon himself was a Sigmarite templar and came to chaos late in life. Chaos being purely feral nordic barbarians is a new and reductive/flanderised version of what chaos is supposed to be.

The possessed warband just looks like the beginnings of chaos warband insurgency, led by chosen warriors bearing the gifts of the gods.

These warbands and the brayherds should be the most common chaos army the old world encounters, no the far north barbarian tribes that spend all their time fighting each other and only have one way to come south.

 Dragon-knight77 wrote:

 Mallo wrote:

 Overread wrote:
GW produce most of the Skaven army barring the slave slings - so you don't have to go 3rd party you can get them right now.

I suspect if they do get the rumoured make over this summer with AoS 4th Ed, then they will probably retire some of the more 'TOW useful' units for the bigger and more dynamic minis to stop people picking them up for TOW.

I'd not be surprised if plague monks, clan rats and the last of the metals will go.

Yeah there 0% chance they do that. Just rn now Pestilence (Plague monks, Censer bearer and Priest) and Eshin (Gutter runners) just got a Underworld warband.

The metal units + Clan rats is like almost all the skaven model range so there no chance they'll gut 75% of the faction and alter it to something radically different for a legacy faction. Like if they did why wasn't a core faction from the start?

Those Underworld warbands are not really suited for mass units though. These are the sort of thing they are likely to replace plague monks and clan rats with. Larger dynamic models with smoke effects etc that over hang the rim of a 25mm round base.

ie models not really suited for TOW units. (Yes, with some work you can make any of the AoS models work in a unit, but they are clearly not designed with that in mind)

Only GW really know why they decided not to make them a core TOW faction. Probably because Skaven are popular in AoS. But no one outside of GW really knows.

boyd wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Were Sisters of Sigmar and Witch Hunters WHFB units?

Witch hunters were characters. The sisters of sigmas were not.

Even Witch Hunters were added as a character option much later on (8th Edition Empire). Prior to that, it was just Warrior Priests (if we don't count the Witch Hunter from WH:Quest). They were relatively unique to Mordheim for quite a while in game terms, even if they'd been in the setting forever.

JimmyWolf87 wrote:

boyd wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:
Were Sisters of Sigmar and Witch Hunters WHFB units?

Witch hunters were characters. The sisters of sigmas were not.

Even Witch Hunters were added as a character option much later on (8th Edition Empire). Prior to that, it was just Warrior Priests (if we don't count the Witch Hunter from WH:Quest). They were relatively unique to Mordheim for quite a while in game terms, even if they'd been in the setting forever.

I think even warrior priests might have featured in the art and fiction (and WFRP) for quite a well ahead of finding their way into the army book. I think 6th ed was the first we saw of them.

 Hellebore wrote:
Unless WFB ends up so big it brings in AoS/40k money. Which would be nice.

Those are (probably) two quite different targets to go for...

The main TOW facebook group already has 2/3 of the member count of the main AoS group. I except it easily could bring in AoS money if you could actually buy it.