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RazorEdge wrote:
I want the early 2000s Empire Statestroops in Plastic as MtO....

Do you guys knwo what would be funny?

Classic Starter Sets - MtO

6th Edition Empire vs Orks
7th Edition Dwarfs vs. Goblins
8th Edition High Elves vs. Skaven

with ToW compatible Journal Booklets.

6th edition state troops for ever!

Also we already have semi 6th edition starter set in production. The orc arrer boyz and double choppa boyz kit:

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/orc-and-goblin-tribes-orc-boyz-and-orc-arrer-boyz-mobs-2024

I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

 herjan1987 wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
I want the early 2000s Empire Statestroops in Plastic as MtO....

Do you guys knwo what would be funny?

Classic Starter Sets - MtO

6th Edition Empire vs Orks
7th Edition Dwarfs vs. Goblins
8th Edition High Elves vs. Skaven

with ToW compatible Journal Booklets.

6th edition state troops for ever!

Also we already have semi 6th edition starter set in production. The orc arrer boyz and double choppa boyz kit:

https://www.warhammer.com/en-GB/shop/orc-and-goblin-tribes-orc-boyz-and-orc-arrer-boyz-mobs-2024

And the pig chariot was in the box too. So far not even nostalgia have made the orc side of that starter look good.

I'll definitely likely get one of each of the new / old offerings for Brets if only to expand the blocks of infantry I already have. Mixing them in would be nice. (Edited to be more specific)

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

Oh, I don't mind the spearmen sculpts. They made for fun conversion fodder, especially mixed with other old plastics.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:

 skrulnik wrote:
I'd look at Perry historicals as a cost effective option.
They have Agincourt & War of the Roses archers, in plastic and metal options.
They're a close match style-wise, especially the English Archer sprue.
Likely similar scale, though I have never had Perry stuff side-by-side with my metal Bret archers & M-A-A.

Assuming the 5th ed Brets are similarly sized to the Dogs of War of the same era (also Perry sculpts), the Agincourt minis should blend in fairly well. The plastic War of the Roses minis are slightly smaller than the Agincourt sets I think, but Agincourt-era is more suitable for the infantry anyway. The most noticeable difference is the weapon scale, partially because Warhammer heroic scale, and partially due to the material - the plastic bows, sword blades, pole-arm shafts etcetera are simply thinner than metal figures could ever be (other aspects of heroic scale, e.g. proportionally larger heads, don't stand out as much in these figures I find, though can depend on for instance the types of helmets etc.).

I tried scaling these before, and Perry Miniatures(plastic or metal) are not the same size as the metal men-at-arms that you get from the 5th edition Bret line. They are ok at height, but they are very thin in width and things like hands and heads were tiny, and it is noticeable. I was very disappointed to say the least. Best that I found so far was was two historical companies. Front Rank Miniatures, which is now part of the line at Gripping Beast is very close. Black Tree Design is the other that work well for mixing in with 5th edition Bret's. I would pick the Hundred Year War line for either or both and you are in business.

I did not check out the knights, but I would pick those two companies for Bret 5th edition armies first before Perry, same with imperial, but I would pick mostly out of the ROW line to augment the empire line. Crusader Miniatures is one that was recommended back then, but I did not get any to view so that is definitely a question mark to me. No doubt that there are others out there, but that is what I was able to find 10 years ago give or take. Your mileage may vary of course.

Oathmark has that oldhammer chonk you might be looking for, and the human infantry would probably be pretty good for peasants.

 BorderCountess wrote:

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

Still better than those 2007 Ragbag Hobbos...

RazorEdge wrote:
Still better than those 2007 Ragbag Hobbos...

You're the first person I've seen expressing any dislike for Nelson's State Troops kit.

Must not have been paying attention.

The hate is fairly widespread. The only piece that people tend to like is the monkey.

they are seen as a downgrade for the most part over the previous models, with the problem that certain weapons were not available with the old boxes outside the core box models so being a sidegrad overall (look worse but got all weapons) so I can see why the dislike isn't ovious

 His Master's Voice wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
Still better than those 2007 Ragbag Hobbos...

You're the first person I've seen expressing any dislike for Nelson's State Troops kit.

They actually got a lot of hate when they first came out. Running around in a leotard instead of puffy sleeves for one. The other criticism was more about some of the head sculpts (which, while I agree to an extent, its not like any Empire player is lacking in spare heads to use instead). Lastly people would go on an on about that one guy missing shoes. Which, despite what people said I always considered a dumb criticism. The historical armies the Empire force was modeled after didn't run on modern military practices. So if you lost your shoes, you probably didn't get new ones until:

A) your buddy next to you died and you stole his
B) you looted new boots off a corpse of your enemies.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
Still better than those 2007 Ragbag Hobbos...

You're the first person I've seen expressing any dislike for Nelson's State Troops kit.

They actually got a lot of hate when they first came out. Running around in a leotard instead of puffy sleeves for one. The other criticism was more about some of the head sculpts (which, while I agree to an extent, its not like any Empire player is lacking in spare heads to use instead).

With the passage of time, I have to admit that I have found many of the heads to be quite good actually.

Albeit for zombies.

The point of the shoes is that during that period the empire is modeled off, shoes were more of a consumable as they did not last very long and literally running thru 8 pairs of shoes per year was the norm (which includes regular self repair) and some payments lists shoes in addition to money.

if models are shown to be in that of lost equipment and a historical period where soldiers needed to buy their own cloths and weapons, we would need models without trousers, jackets, shield and weapons as well.
because of the only possibility to get shoes is the dead buddy, your broken halberd, cut down jacket and ripped away trousers are also things you would miss.

so either models are really battle damaged, or they are battle ready, but leaving behind the shoes to show that the troops are poor makes no sense at all of the rest of the models isn't in the same poor state

 kodos wrote:
...so either models are really battle damaged, or they are battle ready, but leaving behind the shoes to show that the troops are poor makes no sense at all of the rest of the models isn't in the same poor state

Also, I thought the point of Landsknecht was that they were effective and well paid, so they could afford to have such showy, personalized uniforms. That included shoes. Yes, I know Empire State Troops aren't the same thing but their aesthetic was based on them.

Yeah, I still miss the original swordsmen/halberdiers box. If GW ever re-released them, my wallet would grieve.

*edited for bad grammar*

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

They aren't particularly blobby, and single-piece is a good thing from where I'm sitting. Let me crank out basic Core troop blocks quickly so I can get an army on its feet and focus on the flashy models.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

They aren't particularly blobby, and single-piece is a good thing from where I'm sitting. Let me crank out basic Core troop blocks quickly so I can get an army on its feet and focus on the flashy models.

as someone who owns about 150 of those spearmen and 80 of those gunners the main problem is there are only 4 sculpts for each. So if you have a lot they do look kind of the same. You can fix that by just doing a quick head swap but some of the handgunner sculpts don't really allow for it. One in particular has his whole face is smooshed up against his gun barrel making it impossible to hack off.

Heres my example of my own conversions to make them a bit less "samey" (Although I kept 2 without any conversions)

Although this doesn't apply to 'monkey' kit, having samey poses is better than having a few dynamic poses which end up repeating with an identical or almost identical one.

I prefer the old kit, but the new kit can be made into crossbowmen while the old one was handguns only IIRC. But the old aesthetics were better.

This is true for the melee state troops too.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

They actually got a lot of hate when they first came out. Running around in a leotard instead of puffy sleeves for one. The other criticism was more about some of the head sculpts (which, while I agree to an extent, its not like any Empire player is lacking in spare heads to use instead). Lastly people would go on an on about that one guy missing shoes.

I always like the understated styling of Nelson's State Troops - basic uniforms, munitions armour and munitions weapons is what they should be equipped with.

They also looked much better when ranked up in blocks compared to the older plastics.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

They actually got a lot of hate when they first came out. Running around in a leotard instead of puffy sleeves for one. The other criticism was more about some of the head sculpts (which, while I agree to an extent, its not like any Empire player is lacking in spare heads to use instead). Lastly people would go on an on about that one guy missing shoes.

I always like the understated styling of Nelson's State Troops - basic uniforms, munitions armour and munitions weapons is what they should be equipped with.

They also looked much better when ranked up in blocks compared to the older plastics.

I mean ultimately there is nothing wrong with them and I personally have no ill feelings about them. I just never got them because my army is Averland themed and I need my puffy sleeves. Luckily I still have 2 unopened boxes of the older state troops sitting in my pile of shame. I also dont technically need any more as I have stated. I have around 150 of those monopose spearmen from the starter set, 50 of which I converted into Halberds, 60 and actual spearmen and 40 I intend to turn into Pikemen once I can get my hands on enough of the right sized brass rods.

Have there been any leaks regarding Cathay+Empire book?
Man, I would love a good block of Manaan's Blades, backed by Cathay balloons.

TinyLegions wrote:

I tried scaling these before, and Perry Miniatures(plastic or metal) are not the same size as the metal men-at-arms that you get from the 5th edition Bret line. They are ok at height, but they are very thin in width and things like hands and heads were tiny, and it is noticeable. I was very disappointed to say the least. Best that I found so far was was two historical companies. Front Rank Miniatures, which is now part of the line at Gripping Beast is very close. Black Tree Design is the other that work well for mixing in with 5th edition Bret's. I would pick the Hundred Year War line for either or both and you are in business.

I did not check out the knights, but I would pick those two companies for Bret 5th edition armies first before Perry, same with imperial, but I would pick mostly out of the ROW line to augment the empire line. Crusader Miniatures is one that was recommended back then, but I did not get any to view so that is definitely a question mark to me. No doubt that there are others out there, but that is what I was able to find 10 years ago give or take. Your mileage may vary of course.

I used to use GW Bret command groups for Front Rank units when playing Warhammer Ancient Battles. They scale very, very well.

When talking about Black Tree Design, they actually have a separate line that are Bret knock-offs called Men of Averaign. The sculpting is better than the Hundred Years War line, figures a bit bigger, though I find the poses a bit wooden. I've been buying these figures for my Bret infantry, instead of the plastic GW figures (which are dumb & ugly, IMHO). Another benefit is that the figures are quite a bit cheaper than the MTOs (half the price, & BTD does sales occasionally). Though more expensive than the plastics, they also just look better. Of course, then you can't play in GW stores, but here in the US that is less a problem.

I'm planning on looking at Old Glory as well for artillery for Bret Exiles as well.

Damon.

I noticed, the Carthay Journal was translated into german (french, italian ect. too?) and released as a Printed Book, not just as a pdf like the other Arcane Journals.

Lars Porsenna wrote:

TinyLegions wrote:

I tried scaling these before, and Perry Miniatures(plastic or metal) are not the same size as the metal men-at-arms that you get from the 5th edition Bret line. They are ok at height, but they are very thin in width and things like hands and heads were tiny, and it is noticeable. I was very disappointed to say the least. Best that I found so far was was two historical companies. Front Rank Miniatures, which is now part of the line at Gripping Beast is very close. Black Tree Design is the other that work well for mixing in with 5th edition Bret's. I would pick the Hundred Year War line for either or both and you are in business.

I did not check out the knights, but I would pick those two companies for Bret 5th edition armies first before Perry, same with imperial, but I would pick mostly out of the ROW line to augment the empire line. Crusader Miniatures is one that was recommended back then, but I did not get any to view so that is definitely a question mark to me. No doubt that there are others out there, but that is what I was able to find 10 years ago give or take. Your mileage may vary of course.

I used to use GW Bret command groups for Front Rank units when playing Warhammer Ancient Battles. They scale very, very well.

When talking about Black Tree Design, they actually have a separate line that are Bret knock-offs called Men of Averaign. The sculpting is better than the Hundred Years War line, figures a bit bigger, though I find the poses a bit wooden. I've been buying these figures for my Bret infantry, instead of the plastic GW figures (which are dumb & ugly, IMHO). Another benefit is that the figures are quite a bit cheaper than the MTOs (half the price, & BTD does sales occasionally). Though more expensive than the plastics, they also just look better. Of course, then you can't play in GW stores, but here in the US that is less a problem.

I'm planning on looking at Old Glory as well for artillery for Bret Exiles as well.

Damon.

The Averaign line are stylistically a good match for the Perry men at arms, though they're noticeably a bit larger. Not enough that it would be horrible once ranked up.

Lars Porsenna wrote:

TinyLegions wrote:

I tried scaling these before, and Perry Miniatures(plastic or metal) are not the same size as the metal men-at-arms that you get from the 5th edition Bret line. They are ok at height, but they are very thin in width and things like hands and heads were tiny, and it is noticeable. I was very disappointed to say the least. Best that I found so far was was two historical companies. Front Rank Miniatures, which is now part of the line at Gripping Beast is very close. Black Tree Design is the other that work well for mixing in with 5th edition Bret's. I would pick the Hundred Year War line for either or both and you are in business.

I did not check out the knights, but I would pick those two companies for Bret 5th edition armies first before Perry, same with imperial, but I would pick mostly out of the ROW line to augment the empire line. Crusader Miniatures is one that was recommended back then, but I did not get any to view so that is definitely a question mark to me. No doubt that there are others out there, but that is what I was able to find 10 years ago give or take. Your mileage may vary of course.

I used to use GW Bret command groups for Front Rank units when playing Warhammer Ancient Battles. They scale very, very well.

When talking about Black Tree Design, they actually have a separate line that are Bret knock-offs called Men of Averaign. The sculpting is better than the Hundred Years War line, figures a bit bigger, though I find the poses a bit wooden. I've been buying these figures for my Bret infantry, instead of the plastic GW figures (which are dumb & ugly, IMHO). Another benefit is that the figures are quite a bit cheaper than the MTOs (half the price, & BTD does sales occasionally). Though more expensive than the plastics, they also just look better. Of course, then you can't play in GW stores, but here in the US that is less a problem.

I'm planning on looking at Old Glory as well for artillery for Bret Exiles as well.

Damon.

Damon, I think that I remember you from the warseer days. Good to see you here. I forgot about the Men of Averaing, but yeah that is an option as well. You and I are seeing eye-to-eye on the Bret line as well. Putting together an imperial army is a bit trickier in my estimation out of different manufacturers, but I guess that it depends on what you are trying for. I also agree that the plastics that Gee Dubs put out were not my cup of tea as well.

On the Warhammer Ancient Battle side, I loved me some WAB back when it was out. More on the Roman side in my area, but I liked the Age of Chivalry book a lot. I always wanted to get a Bret/WAB army up and running, perhaps now is as good as any.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Prometheum5 wrote:
I really hoped they'd release the 6E started Empire figs after they did the Orcs, those are all such good sculpts and quick to get on the table.

...they really aren't. The Spearmen and Handgunners from that kit are awful, especially the Handgunners who are actually in a firing pose. They're single-piece blobs of plastic.

They aren't particularly blobby, and single-piece is a good thing from where I'm sitting. Let me crank out basic Core troop blocks quickly so I can get an army on its feet and focus on the flashy models.

as someone who owns about 150 of those spearmen and 80 of those gunners the main problem is there are only 4 sculpts for each. So if you have a lot they do look kind of the same. You can fix that by just doing a quick head swap but some of the handgunner sculpts don't really allow for it. One in particular has his whole face is smooshed up against his gun barrel making it impossible to hack off.

Heres my example of my own conversions to make them a bit less "samey" (Although I kept 2 without any conversions)

Now that is nicely done. Yep you are right, only 4 is very redundant. Good idea on the head swaps, but that can only go so far. 150 spearmen, now I always liked spearmen, but wow, not like you. I read your other post on converting some to pikemen, definitely a good idea, and you have plenty to work on. Good luck and happy painting, brother.

TinyLegions wrote:

Damon, I think that I remember you from the warseer days. Good to see you here.

Yep, I used to be around during Warseer. Hasting's rumordumps were always something to look forward to. Doesn't seem we get as much anymore...

Damon

At last, second arcane journal, dragon, and Preyton up for preorder next week!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/ceirqemh/sunday-preview-miao-ying-raises-a-storm-in-the-old-world/

Miao Ying? Really? Sounds like there may be big trouble in…… Cathay? 😉

Desert Dave wrote:
Miao Ying? Really? Sounds like there may be big trouble in…… Cathay? 😉

That's what I think of every time I read her name. Sadly in the artwork her eyes aren't green, they're glowing blue. If Marienburg doesn't have an enclave known as 'Little Cathay' mentioned in the journal I'll be very disappointed.