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Wasn't it more that there were several pivots?

Cathay and Kislev were pretty much the first thing we learned of TOW at all, via the tie-ins with Total War. The final designs used for TOW were already ironed out back then, long before TOW launched, let alone Cathay itself.

Then TOW launched with no sign of Cathay, suggesting a conservative start. This is a sign that the game has proven itself and is seemingly back on the original track, which is great, but it is wholly different from the legacy faction issue (which is an issue of competing departments, not lack of funding - 40k is thriving yet gets no access to lore-friendly 30k robots..)

I think the main problem with the divisiveness of the Chaos Warriors appearance is that they are supposed to be informed by two somewhat mutually exclusive narratives at the same time.

A) Hard-boiled and coarse barbarians from a blasted wasteland with meagre resources that are pitched against the "softer" and more aesthetically refined civilized nations. I am thinking of the contrasting appearance between Uruk-Hai armor and Elven or Gondorian armor in the LotR movies, for example. The 6th edition Warriors and their AoS successors fit more into this archetype.

B) Otherworldly and quasi-transcendent demigods that have witnessed and overcome experiences that would shatter a puny mortal's mind. (Say, Elric of Melnibone or the crazy apparitions that JRPG villains tend to turn themselves into for the final boss fight). The old Realm of Chaos artworks and the new Warriors lean more into this. In fact, I spontaneously had to think of Exdeath and Golbez from Final Fantasy while looking at them.

Ultimately, both narratives fit Chaos but i assume it's difficult to sculpt a miniature that adequately captures both.

All about risk management I reckon.

By just updating the rules and relying predominantly on re-issues kits, the production costs were minimised.

And I think that may have been justified by uncertainty by how much demand was just Memberberries.

Now? I think we can be pretty confident it’s at least meeting if not exceeding sales expectations, and so is receiving all news kits and even an entire “from scratch” plastic army.

 Ashiraya wrote:
(which is an issue of competing departments, not lack of funding - 40k is thriving yet gets no access to lore-friendly 30k robots..)

Those HH robots aren't 'lore-friendly' in 40k since 3 decades or so.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
(which is an issue of competing departments, not lack of funding - 40k is thriving yet gets no access to lore-friendly 30k robots..)

Those HH robots aren't 'lore-friendly' in 40k since 3 decades or so.

They were going to be formally introduced to 40k gameplay with Fires of Cyraxus (which was never published, RIP Alan Bligh) but they've always been around in the lore, just rarer. Just like how Contemptors and Sicarans also existed in small numbers in 40k until the department competition grew and they were booted to Legends.

In a game where I run into Magnus and Avatars of Khaine seemingly every match, said robots are certainly not rare enough that they'd have to be unplayable.

(Incidentally, this range separation is also why we can't use 40k Skitarii in 30k, despite them appearing onscreen in the novels).

 Esmer wrote:


A) Hard-boiled and coarse barbarians from a blasted wasteland with meagre resources

Sorry but that has never been the lore in regards to Chaos Warriors, not even for Marauders.

 Londinium wrote:
On another matter separate from Chaos Warrior aesthetics, I do find it funny that we're now on the precipice of the release of a starter box for TOW that is thematically focused on clashes around the Great Bastion. when the original pitch for the game was focusing on 'the Old World' and an Empire civil war with a deliberately narrow scope. Some posters on this site and others were adamant that this meant the scope would never increase and we'd be lucky if we saw much more than Empires, Orcs, Dwarfs and Chaos.

Somewhere along the line there was a major readjustment of what GW wanted to do with this game. Yet some people are still adamant that we will never see some of the legacy factions return. I'd love to know the background story behind the development of this game...also where Kislev disappeared off to.

I don't think they know what they want to do with the game tbh. They made out it was going to be 'old world' (as in Empire Vs Empire and friends) focused but due to popularity and/or sales, its now Cathay Vs Chaos focused. They don't want to steal the shelf space from AoS when WFB has failed before, but this is a lot of effort (at least in releases) for a 'side' game. It would only take a bit more effort in videos/articles/white dwarf space for it to compete as a main line game.

Though honestly I don't mind how haphazard the releases/game feels. It doesn't really invalidate my old collection, each new release doesn't feel like its invalidating or replacing the last old world release (like it can do with AoS/40k/kill team/necromunda etc). I wish we'd see things like legacy but the 2nd hand market is flooded with models for the most part and I'm really not to bothered about playing old editions if GW want to gatekeep people from enjoying the game to the fullest for 'reasons'. I just like having easy access to WFB plastics again.

I had honestly expected that, if the game as advertised, that now two years in we would have seen at least one new empire multi part plastic kit and a big campaign/core/starter set for this so called 'age of three emperors era old world' they brought the game out as. We've had a decal sheet and some wizards I guess and skipped ahead towards the war with chaos (minus having demons which are 'legacy')

I figure Kislev is giving Cathay a chance to be the new shiny army in public for a while.

It might also be that as the first new army it was going to be chock full of new sculpt and lots of resin sculpts; then OW started selling REALLY well to the point where they could do it all in plastic so they pushed it down the road a little so that it can find some slots to be reworked for plastic

I'm not really seeing the busyness people are citing.

The horses seem busy due to a more patchwork barding.

But the warriors just look like they're wearing plate armour with some gold trim, like iron warriors in 40k.

They have furs or belts, some skulls.

Apart from the Brian Nelson ones having their back covered by the same fur cloak, they had similar levels of stuff on their fronts.


I

Quite apart from the fact that the original focuspoints of the game (orcs vs bretonnia, khemri vs bretonnia, dwarfs en wood elves and chaos vs cathay and empire) has for the last year or so completely zoomed in on Chaos vs cathay both in the Westerland and at Cathay's borders, all the models that have been released for the game in over a year have been either Cathay or Warriors as well.

While the fight with Khemri has at least gotten a dedicated book, the fight in the Grey Mountains/Pale Sisters between Orcs and Goblins and Bretonnia has received no attention whatsoever.

This feels like classic GW. Present things and don't follow through.

I don't play warriors or cathay; there are 8 other armies. I've been very bored with gw's releases the past year, not because the models were bad (they were great), but because they've been serving just two armies, in one case completely remodeling the line, while some of the other armies don't even have models for all of their unit entries.

GW has always done this and it irks me to no end.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
(which is an issue of competing departments, not lack of funding - 40k is thriving yet gets no access to lore-friendly 30k robots..)

Those HH robots aren't 'lore-friendly' in 40k since 3 decades or so.

They were going to be formally introduced to 40k gameplay with Fires of Cyraxus (which was never published, RIP Alan Bligh) but they've always been around in the lore, just rarer. Just like how Contemptors and Sicarans also existed in small numbers in 40k until the department competition grew and they were booted to Legends.

In a game where I run into Magnus and Avatars of Khaine seemingly every match, said robots are certainly not rare enough that they'd have to be unplayable.

(Incidentally, this range separation is also why we can't use 40k Skitarii in 30k, despite them appearing onscreen in the novels).

The book never came. And it was about using a vault of forgotten robots as desperate measure against some Tau. And the rules would have been as 'official' or longlasting as those from other IA books.

I don't like the strict separation between Adeptus Mechanicus and Mechanicum either, but after RT and Space Marine they decided to bury Imperial robots and only brought them back years later. First as blast from the past in HH as semi-intelligent constructs and later in 40k as giant game consoles. So there is a border.

Sure, old robots may exist in 40k, but so are... Zoat armies. Probably.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
First as blast from the past in HH as semi-intelligent constructs and later in 40k as giant game consoles. So there is a border.

Speaking of said consoles, Castellax and Kastelan are both types of Castellan-type robot. They're really surprisingly similar. Kastelans on paper are of limited intelligence, but they're also smart enough to have "itinerant" Kastelans who travel on their own initiative and join the Mechanicus in battle when they feel like it!

I don't really see the border there. Skitarii Vanguard and Skorpius Duneriders coexisted with 30k Taghmata during the Siege of Terra at minimum. It's not like they're fundamentally different eras of tech.

I don't think any of the Admech robots ever existed in the Old World though

I was wondering whether the Tomb Kings battalion that leaked nine months ago has just been scrapped. The battalions are disappearing from their site, and I can't see them having both the large battalions and the smaller battle march sets for sale at the same time.

 goffnob deffsmakka wrote:
I don't think any of the Admech robots ever existed in the Old World though

I was wondering whether the Tomb Kings battalion that leaked nine months ago has just been scrapped. The battalions are disappearing from their site, and I can't see them having both the large battalions and the smaller battle march sets for sale at the same time.

Presumably it's going to be part of the battlemarch sets?

 Olthannon wrote:

 goffnob deffsmakka wrote:
I don't think any of the Admech robots ever existed in the Old World though

I was wondering whether the Tomb Kings battalion that leaked nine months ago has just been scrapped. The battalions are disappearing from their site, and I can't see them having both the large battalions and the smaller battle march sets for sale at the same time.

Presumably it's going to be part of the battlemarch sets?

I doubt it, it was branded as a battalion and in a bigger box than the WoC and Cathay Battle March armies.

Maybe it was meant to replace the launch set but they changed plans.

I do hope they move on from Cathay and WoC after these releases, but that might only happen in 2027 at this rate.

I re-read the piece and they only talk about Chaos/Cathay unfortunately. I imagine that big box has been repackaged. I think maybe the bigger monoboxes weren't selling as well. I picked up the bigger Marauder boxes for a discount a good few months after their release. It would have been a no brainer to make these up and have them all ready for launch

Maybe when Battlemarch actually launches they will have more.

That TK Battalion box doesn't look that far off. I imagine the Warshrine/Necrosphinx kit will stay in to give them the Liche Priest unless they've went a completely new direction but I don't see them packaging the new plastic Heralds/Priests in these boxes. As an aside I just love how well the Tomb Guard have aged. Really great looking models.

I think its fine to focus on two and flesh them out with replacement/new options so long as it does end and GW moves on. The big risk/mistake would be to try and copy Marine/Stormcast policies which - whilst it can chase the money on a strong seller; can also directly hamper growth of other factions and make them even more expensive to push sales for - which starts the game death spiral that we saw at one point almost happening with 40K. Heck I'd argue that pushing stormcast hampered this editions sales because of how it started out with GW pulling 3 year old stormcast sculpts just to have Stormcast "in the box" - Stormcast have lost more models than several armies in AoS have gained over its lifespan.

OR how in 30K the focus on more marks of marines has clearly held the game back in developing other factions - the game still hasn't had much released for Sisters of Silence; Mechanicum is still running around with a lot of resin sculpts etc...


Moving on is critical in Old World because of the older faction models that are around. However I don't mind GW focusing in on a couple of factions to flesh out with a series of releases at once. It's a sensible move so long as it rotates on a decent rate.
Let Cathay get a good chunky and diverse releases - it 100% clearly helps new armies to bulk up fast like that as opposed to a one and done smaller release.
Let Chaos get a bunch of releases back to back so that most/all of the army moves to modern sculpts and gets a few new toys along the way

Then let it move - so that TK or Brets or WE are the focus and they get a similar treatment of stepping up their models.

I could see more Chaos releases, when the new Starter and Battlemarch Stuff comes.

Cathay looks "complete" to me, we also get no new Models. I'm sure, we see a third Faction gets a large treatement of new Core Units until the End of the Year.

Cathay still awaits the Celestial Dragon Guard/Crossbows, the Jade Longma Riders, the Peasant Horsemen, the Jade/Jet Lions, the Sky-Junk, the Alchemist, and the various Tigermen units.

And of course, Zhao Ming, Yuan Bo and Bhashiva.

The Cathaying will continue until morale improves!

Seems WoC will get an AJ where Beastmen will be included.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Cathay still awaits the Celestial Dragon Guard/Crossbows, the Jade Longma Riders, the Peasant Horsemen, the Jade/Jet Lions, the Sky-Junk, the Alchemist, and the various Tigermen units.

And of course, Zhao Ming, Yuan Bo and Bhashiva.

The Cathaying will continue until morale improves!

Hopefully they can squeeze in the War Compass, War Drum, Celestial Lion, Great Moon Bird and Onyx Crowmen. Cathay will stay completely unplayable without them.

I just saw that the first Cathay wave was released exactly a year ago. So in the last year we had the two Cathay waves, the Tomb Prince and Tomb Priest kits and the Marauders.
I think the Cathay waves and Marauders first being released as a box set, and later separately, made the pace of new releases seem slower; of the seven weeks with TOW releases, three had nothing new.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RazorEdge wrote:
I could see more Chaos releases, when the new Starter and Battlemarch Stuff comes.

New marauders and new Warriors leave the Chosen in a bit of a weird spot.

I'm also curious how this little guy will look among the new knights:

I assume we are going to get Chosen as an upgrade kit as I don't see much room for them to be an entirely new kit. I think they'll go the CSM route with pads, heads and two handed weapons. In the article it says that warrior hand weapons can be used on knights, they are just default lances, so this idea of mixing between kits is baked in.

Really beyond that I think a foot/horse sorcerer kit may pop up at some point. Although if you put your lord on a dragon you'll have a foot sorcerer. Maybe a chariot replacement to match the new style? Other than that really just would like a plastic hellcannon. I don't imagine the Chimera is getting a new kit.

Arcane Journal: The March of Chaos
As well as the new miniatures, the Warriors of Chaos are getting a new Arcane Journal. This supplement opens up new ways to use your Marauders, Warriors, and Knights as you spread ruin across war-torn Westerland and towards the border with Osterlund.

Along with background, lore, and artwork, the Arcane Journal includes a new Army of Infamy where you can combine the Warriors of Chaos with the Beastman Brayherds, and rules for your Wizards to manipulate the Winds of Magic in new ways. You can also create your own custom Champions of Chaos and Brayherd Chieftains to lead your forces.

Heading East toward Kislev. Beastmen might get something. If Kislev are being released before the end of this year what are the chances of some Westerland/Osterlund/Empire releases before Kislev? Is releasing Kislev at Christmas too soon for something to be squeezed in? I hope not.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/4o8ihwtm/sunday-preview-claim-the-old-world-with-a-new-core-set/

Boom! That was fast!

And I thought the Maximus battle group was fast. One day from reveal to Sunday preview, is that a record?

Nice to see it laid out like this. Any guesses on the damage?


Battle March book going up as well is interesting. I assume the boxes will come in the following weeks and the Chaos journal after/with them.

The July edition of White Dwarf is a celebration of Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War IV. There’s an exclusive interview with the director of the forthcoming video game and a Blood Ravens painting guide, along with a Warhammer: The Old World battle report.

 Ashiraya wrote:
And I thought the Maximus battle group was fast. One day from reveal to Sunday preview, is that a record?

I think so, yes.

 Gael Knight wrote:
Nice to see it laid out like this. Any guesses on the damage?

Spoiler:

Red sticks are only in boxes for nrw editions snd this is just a cite set with new rules

They've been replacing the whippy sticks with bespoke measuring sticks for some time now.

£150 €190 for the Core Set and £17 €22 for the Battle March Generals Companion