Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

 Shrapnelsmile wrote:
I wonder if the Alpha Strike rules would work well with my old Mechwarrior pre-painted minis? Any thoughts?

We played the first stand alone version of Alpha Strike with rebased MechWarrior clix. Used measurements as written.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2013/12/alpha-strike-game-report-and-review/

Back when you could buy big bulk lots for cheap we bought buckets and then divided up matching forces to each club member. We used the minis for Alpha Strike, Mech Attack, Panzer 8 and other small scale Wargaming rules. The new Battletech plastic Mecha are really cool but I like the larger scale.

this is very, very cool. Thanks for encouragement.

You're very welcome. As it happens, we were just talking about playing Alpha Strike again at last week's meeting. I've been acquiring N scale structure kits to upgrade from my current papercraft buildings.
If you're playing in MechWarrior scale (N, 1/144, 1/160, 10mm, etc ..) and need structures, these papercraft files are free, easy to make and look pretty good. We used them for years.
https://dungeoncrawlers.com/files/paper-terrain/mechwarrior
They probably be fine as is or scaled down a bit for Traditional Battletech scale.

The structures in the battle report I shared are Heavy gear papercraft Industrial and Commercial sets and are still available free buried in their website..
https://www.dp9.com/downloads/?wpv_aux_current_post_id=2251&wpv_aux_parent_post_id=2251&wpv_view_count=5238-CATTR2798fcda10b461565b4e9a0f879836d8&wpv-type=papercraft

DropZone buildings also fit in pretty well, too.

If you have them, Monsterpocalypse might also be able to work.

And that's not also considering the buildings 3D printers have created for Battletech as well. Some of those are just amazing, and will work when you go to Classic, too.

So many good free options on Thingiverse as well as the even more amazing priced exampes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also thanks for the advice as it looks like it will be leading to some actual gaming for me

Prepare for heavy use of contrast style paints!

 Charistoph wrote:
DropZone buildings also fit in pretty well, too.

If you have them, Monsterpocalypse might also be able to work.

And that's not also considering the buildings 3D printers have created for Battletech as well. Some of those are just amazing, and will work when you go to Classic, too.

Dropzone! That's the ones I was thinking of. They are 10mm but would probably look great as 6/8mm skyscrapers.

IIRC, Monpoc buildings are great for hex maps, and might look ok if they were the only buildings used, but they're going to be pretty dang small next to even properly sized 6mm buildings.

 Eilif wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:
DropZone buildings also fit in pretty well, too.

If you have them, Monsterpocalypse might also be able to work.

And that's not also considering the buildings 3D printers have created for Battletech as well. Some of those are just amazing, and will work when you go to Classic, too.

Dropzone! That's the ones I was thinking of. They are 10mm but would probably look great as 6/8mm skyscrapers.

IIRC, Monpoc buildings are great for hex maps, and would look ok if they were the only buildings used, but they're going to be pretty small next to even properly sized 6mm buildings.

Monpoc ones are good price if you want the quality, as equivalent for 6 and 10 are pricy. But they are small, but do cover what’s needed for a city !
It also depends what’s available, I would spend more for 10mm but it all has a big post tag on it as well.

I would just say that thisconsidering MonPoc buildings should look closely at battreps like these..

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/after-action-reports/lyran-archers-with-shadow's-fury-vs-clan-jade-falcon/

To judge whether they are big enough for Alpha Strike games where cover matters. They're 3mm scale at best and most can only cover one 6mm Mech. I think they're to small, but ymmv.

 Eilif wrote:
Dropzone! That's the ones I was thinking of. They are 10mm but would probably look great as 6/8mm skyscrapers.

I suggested it because I use my Shaltarii hover tanks as Combat Vehicles, and I'm looking to convert the Infantry over to Battleforce Hexes in the near future.

For those who aren't aware of the sizes, here's a couple photos:


*Hopefully they work, it seems Google Photos is being a jerk for image addresses at present.
**Went back and got new links, hopefully they work better.

 Eilif wrote:
IIRC, Monpoc buildings are great for hex maps, and might look ok if they were the only buildings used, but they're going to be pretty dang small next to even properly sized 6mm buildings.

Good to know. No one locally plays MonPoc and I was just thinking of different sci-fi games that were nearly equivalent scale.

From the BatRep you provided, they actually look closer to map scale than 'Mech Scale.

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the MonPoc buildings for the same reason I wouldn't recommend Bandai's gacha Ultraman buildings. They're a little too small for the scale for Alpha Strike.

If you don’t mind going up in size to around 12mm, there are gundam buildings that are huge for a good price.
Plenty of space to hide mecha inside as well, as they are designed to hold the 144 gundam.

The action bases as well for gundam are usable, one of them has a Street second and buildings.
Not big, but stackable, and good price for what you get.

Apple fox wrote:
If you don’t mind going up in size to around 12mm, there are gundam buildings that are huge for a good price.
Plenty of space to hide mecha inside as well, as they are designed to hold the 144 gundam.

The action bases as well for gundam are usable, one of them has a Street second and buildings.
Not big, but stackable, and good price for what you get.

Got a link to those? Sounds really interesting!

For those wanting/willing to use 1/144 buildings, there's a ton of them on Ali Express and Ebay for 10-20 each. Some are clones of Tomy and some are unique designs. Some even come pre-colored!
Some examples here: https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2017/10/n-scale-buildings-and-other-aliexpress-finds/
Note the P buildings which is relatively scale-less and only 5 bucks.

Really though, if you're using official battletech minis, it's worth digging around on Ali for proper 1/300 buildings. Some interesting stuff there including these interesting pre-built city sections which cost $85 bucks each, but each have 7 buildings included.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804793328302.html
And these individual buildings for 10 bucks each...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804162047632.html


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Dropzone! That's the ones I was thinking of. They are 10mm but would probably look great as 6/8mm skyscrapers.

I suggested it because I use my Shaltarii hover tanks as Combat Vehicles, and I'm looking to convert the Infantry over to Battleforce Hexes in the near future.

For those who aren't aware of the sizes, here's a couple photos:


*Hopefully they work, it seems Google Photos is being a jerk for image addresses at present.

 Eilif wrote:
IIRC, Monpoc buildings are great for hex maps, and might look ok if they were the only buildings used, but they're going to be pretty dang small next to even properly sized 6mm buildings.

Good to know. No one locally plays MonPoc and I was just thinking of different sci-fi games that were nearly equivalent scale.

From the BatRep you provided, they actually look closer to map scale than 'Mech Scale.

Pics aren't showing, but I bet they DZC buildings would be great. Maybe just upload them to Dakka?

As for MonPoc, IMHO they really are map scale, not tabletop. If one already has a bunch of them, nothing wrong with using them, but they're not something I'd purchase for Alpha Strike.

I'd assume the MonPoc buildings would make the mechs look too small going by the cardboard in the Alpha Strike box.

Search for Bandai Spirits 30 Minute Mission - #06 Customize Scene Base (City Area) @Eilif and they should come up.

Here a YouTube video of them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvfDc9dNHQ

The big ones, I can’t find right now. And forgot the name, I will try and remember to find when I get up.

Also, Outland models has some great buildings that will be huge, if you really want some big towers on a table. But about the 10/12mm scale.

 LunarSol wrote:
I'd assume the MonPoc buildings would make the mechs look too small going by the cardboard in the Alpha Strike box.

Kind of the opposite. The mon poc buildings make the mechs look too big because the buildings are too small.

Makes Battlemechs look like Gundam.

I guess I'm not sure how big Battlemechs are really supposed to be. Are we talking the new MonPoc buildings?

I was talking about the old plastic MonPoc buildings. Are those above MonPoc? Never seen them before.

The Office skyscraper buildings look really nice. Still a bit smaller in scale than BT, but big enough in actual size to look fine.

The church is a little small, but YMMV.

Added some Alpha Strike buildings:




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:
I was talking about the old plastic MonPoc buildings. Are those above MonPoc? Never seen them before.

The Office skyscraper buildings look really nice. Still a bit smaller in scale than BT, but big enough in actual size to look fine.

The church is a little small, but YMMV.

These are the resin buildings for the 2018 MonPoc relaunch. They're definitely larger than the old plastic stuff, which tended to be very skinny to try and look tall.

I think it's all about how much unity you want in your terrain setup. Those two types of buildings next to each other would be visually jarring to me, but all of one or all of the other type would look fine. Others may feel differently.

Anyone have a picture of the Alpha Strike buldings alongside DZC buildings?

A measurement of the height of the Alpha Strike doorways would be informative as well.

One other thing to consider for terrain is that structures can often be visually re-sized simply by modifying the doorways. Adding a simple "T" (drawn on paper models or with plastic rod on a 3d model) can turn a single doorway into a pair of double doors with a transom and that can knock a building down a scale. Did this for a 15mm building to bring it to 10mm and it worked a treat.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2013/02/new-plastic-buildings-from-proxie-models/



With a few strokes of a pen you could probably knock almost any 10mm paper buildings down to 6/8mm

I probably wouldn't mix them just for aesthetic reasons, but if someone wanted they could probably paint the MonPoc stuff in a way that fit better. Mine are just painted for MonPoc.

Did a bit of doorway checking myself and the Alpha Strike doors don't make a ton of sense but I think they technically work out to the correct scale. They're slightly larger than than the MonPoc doors (10-20%?) but if you go by them then the windows don't make any sense unless the people can't see out of them or have to duck to enter.

 LunarSol wrote:
I probably wouldn't mix them just for aesthetic reasons, but if someone wanted they could probably paint the MonPoc stuff in a way that fit better. Mine are just painted for MonPoc.

Did a bit of doorway checking myself and the Alpha Strike doors don't make a ton of sense but I think they technically work out to the correct scale. They're slightly larger than than the MonPoc doors (10-20%?) but if you go by them then the windows don't make any sense unless the people can't see out of them or have to duck to enter.

Are you saying the upper floors are too short? Compressed upper floors that don't necessarily match the ground floor or doorways are not unheard of in models and art. Generally it wouldn't bother me much as the eye is drawn to the doorways and as long as the doors are correct, the brain makes assumptions from there.

The top of the door comes to slightly above the bottom of the first set of windows. The windows in general are about as tall as the door. It's got 4 rows of windows but it's about 6 doorways tall It doesn't actually bother me but it's kind of weird to think of a way that a building would actually work the way it's designed. Brain mostly goes "that building, yes" though and I don't really care. Curious to compare it to some infantry though.

I see. I kind of let that stuff slide especially if the doors are tall enough to accommodate a person

Buildings often have entrances that are higher or lower than the first floor and it's not unusual for vestibules to span more than a floor especially if connected to a stairway. As for what appear to be windows, they often have little bearing on the precise location of the floor or actually usable windows.

It is a bit jarring though when the ground floor is shorter than floors above.

Eilif wrote:Pics aren't showing, but I bet they DZC buildings would be great. Maybe just upload them to Dakka?

Got new links, so they should work now.

They aren't the buildings, just the tank and Infantry models compared to Battletech ones.

Eilif wrote: As for MonPoc, IMHO they really are map scale, not tabletop. If one already has a bunch of them, nothing wrong with using them, but they're not something I'd purchase for Alpha Strike.

Map Scale is based on the short length of a 30m hex being a little over 1 1/4" or 30mm. The Mechs when on a hex are MUCH larger than they would literally be. This is often used to describe Dropships as well as buildings, as officially, a landed Aerodyne Dropship is 5 Levels high and a Spheroid Dropships are 10 Levels high, both taking up 7 hexes (1 central and the 6 surrounding ones). This would lead to these units to be oddly proportioned. So 3rd party models are set up to either be properly represented on the map (map scale) or to the Battlmech (Mech scale).

LunarSol wrote:I guess I'm not sure how big Battlemechs are really supposed to be. Are we talking the new MonPoc buildings?

Mechs are 2 Levels tall, with each Level being about 6 meters in height. That means a Battlemech will be 7-12 meters in height. Obviously individual units will vary, such as the Locust and Stinger being closer to 7 meters tall while the Atlas and Annihilator are closer to 12 meters tall.

Are regular Elementals any good in AS? They seem quite expensive for the amount of punishment they can deal and suffer coupled with limited movement, so it seems like they would have the same problems as they have in regular Btech.

 Albertorius wrote:
Are regular Elementals any good in AS? They seem quite expensive for the amount of punishment they can deal and suffer coupled with limited movement, so it seems like they would have the same problems as they have in regular Btech.

Definitely! They've got three primary advantages that make that high cost worth it.

First, the AM special. If they get a melee attack off on mech or vehicle, they cause a crit. That alone is worth the price of admission, if you can reach the enemy.

Second, crazy mobility from hitching a ride on Omnis. With a Dasher you can drop these guys off in any piece of woods within 26" of where they start- it's a massive boost for the offensive power of any light mech. Particularly if you can drop them behind someone, and get that rear attack bonus damage with the Omni taxi, and the BA.

And finally, they are really tough to remove- it's more trouble than it's worth to kill them. Allow me to explain, as they're listed TMM is not impressive. A basic Elemental is TMM 1- but it's Battle Armor, which gives it +1, and it can jump without any negatives for its own firing, giving it another +1. So out in the open, they've got TMM 3 to hit, and they can hide behind level 1 cover.

They definitely require some coordination, but they're devastating when properly used.

Good to know, thank you!

How does the game fare when unit numbers are lopsided towards one side? I assume that usually Clan-IS fights would feature more IS units than clanners, particularly if vehicles and infantry are in the menu, so, how does it the rules do in that regard? Does it break if there's (for example) twice as many units in one side?

There doesn't seem to be as much Clan/Inner Sphere distinction to Alpha Strike. It's set primarily in the most recent timeline where the two have been in contact long enough for most of technology to have merged so there's not quite as much of a distinction as previous eras.

I expect that will boil down to the units chosen, right?

I mean, if I choose nothing but first line omnis with proper veteran pilots on one side and 3025 era mechs with regular pilots in the other to represent a clan invasion early fight, I'd expect there will be big point differences between both.

EDIT:

For example, let's say I want to field this as a "proper" AS nova, mainly with level 2-3 pilots:



There's no formation on the AS book that jumps to my mind for this (except support or command I guess), with Prime variants.

As to points, let's say these, for example:

Black Hawk (Nova) Prime Pilot 3 PV 49
Puma (Adder) Prime Pilot 3 PV 36
Grendel (Mongrel) Prime Pilot 3 PV 55
Gladiator (Executioner) Prime Pilot 2 PV 71
Mad Cat (Timber Wolf) Prime Pilot 2 PV 76
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd5) Pilot 3 PV 23
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd5) Pilot 3 PV 23
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd5) Pilot 3 PV 23
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd5) Pilot 3 PV 23
Elemental Battle Armor [Laser] (Sqd5) Pilot 3 PV 23

That's a total of 394 points, and I'd assume you'd need to field about a full IS company at least, which I guess it's not that much of a difference in minis (12 to 10), but it's 1 unit vs three, right? Is that a problem for the game?

 LunarSol wrote:
There doesn't seem to be as much Clan/Inner Sphere distinction to Alpha Strike. It's set primarily in the most recent timeline where the two have been in contact long enough for most of technology to have merged so there's not quite as much of a distinction as previous eras.

Sort of. The current Alpha Strike press does seem to be later in the timeline, in terms of the units and cards promoted, but the Battletech universe and Alpha Strike go all the way back. Alpha Strike as a standalone game is a decade old now.

To see what I mean plug a classic Mech name into the MUL
http://www.masterunitlist.info/
and you'll find versions (and Alpha Strike cards) from it's entire history, at various point costs. This is one of the best things about Alpha Strike. You only need the rulebook, figs, terrain and the MUL, so every era and faction of BT is open to you and as with BT, any sourcebook from nearly 40 years previous is applicable.

As for a Clan Invasion game, I don't know how that would play out. Certainly the IS would likely have more units than Clan, but with the abstractions inherent in Alpha Strike, I don't know if it would be relatively equal or tilt towards one side.

Ah, sorry, took a while to update the post with the example >_>

 Eilif wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
There doesn't seem to be as much Clan/Inner Sphere distinction to Alpha Strike. It's set primarily in the most recent timeline where the two have been in contact long enough for most of technology to have merged so there's not quite as much of a distinction as previous eras.

Sort of. The current Alpha Strike press does seem to be later in the timeline, in terms of the units and cards promoted, but the Battletech universe and Alpha Strike go all the way back. Alpha Strike as a standalone game is a decade old now.

To see what I mean plug a classic Mech name into the MUL
http://www.masterunitlist.info/
and you'll find versions (and Alpha Strike cards) from it's entire history, at various point costs. This is one of the best things about Alpha Strike. You only need the rulebook, figs, terrain and the MUL, so every era and faction of BT is open to you and as with BT, any sourcebook from nearly 40 years previous is applicable.

As for a Clan Invasion game, I don't know how that would play out. Certainly the IS would likely have more units than Clan, but with the abstractions inherent in Alpha Strike, I don't know if it would be relatively equal or tilt towards one side.

There's for sure an enormous amount of variant options and timespans to play around with. My point is just that the Alpha Strike rules, particularly out of the box, don't result in IS mechs being notably cheaper than Clans. Even the Clan vs Inner Sphere scenarios that come with the starter rely a lot on the Clan side spending points on Skill upgrades over the mechs themselves being significantly better.