The Lion speculation

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**H.B.M.C.**

"As soon as the Lion returned to the Imperium, all the Fallen passed the Rubicon Primaris, thereby allowing us to retire the old Dark Angel Veteran Kit!" - Belisarius Cawl

**NinthMusketeer**

I want the Lion to come back, check in with the DA&co, then be like 'you spent 10k years doing WHAT!?' And be furious that they wasted all this time BEING borderline traitorous over their individual vendetta instead of, ya know, actually serving loyally.

**Breton**

ionusx wrote:
the lions gonna show up, and then he will at some point go over to the fallen and rotflstomp them into the pavement.

before people go "of but their the fallen, they are a fan favourite faction, they are a whole reison detre of the dark angels". and no no its not and the fallen arent a threat.

the fallens backstory is the lamest thing in the world, its the horus heresy in miniature, and its a force that people on both sides of the table look at with rose tinted glasses on. the fallen are such a minor player in the galaxy, and they are not capable of standing toe to toe with any chaos warband or space marine army of size.

the fallen have no massive stockpiles of weapons, they have no access to vehicles or dreadnaughts or aerospace assets, or warships apart from what they have managed to beg borrow and steal, which wont be substantial in any quantity. and on top of that they are not an organized fighting force, warbands for all their failures have structures, command, logistics and supply sources even if chaos demon space magic based.

the fallen have none of this, they have few demonic allies, VERY FEW, they have no bottomless source of bodies and ammunition, they have no command structure beyond "luther leader" which holds about as much water as a bucket with a hole in in, heck the fallen infight and shoot eachother, the lord cypher convinced hundreds of them to fight with him in the gathering storm, and it shows how they have no unity, they have no organization, and are a bunch of scattered nobodies that have slowly painfully, gradually over thousands of years come back togeather.

the fallen even then, even brought togeather, are a TINY warband, thousands yes, but they have none of those assets that the other warbands do, and no idea what they fething want beyond "kill the lion", if they were to say piss off huron and get the much more organized, well supplied, and well organized red corsairs, it would be over in a fortnight
nevermind a proper large warband or legion like the world bearers or black legion, they are going to get steamrolled over the course of a single campaign down the line and the lions sons will need to move on, find a new purpose and if they dont, then it really shows how dumbed down, how afraid games workshop has become, the fallen are going to stand too, and face their inevitable crushing annihilation, they may make a meal out of it for the dark angels, but its doomed to happen. sorry chaos worshippers, i really want you to have nice things, but my theory is that he arrives, unites the unforgiven, beats the brakes off vashtors plans, then down the line he gets a campaign to flatten the fallen, and the rest of them form some weird +1 group tag alongs that functionally become the dark angels equivalent to the death company, seeking a glorious death in battle, seeking a heroes death when the lion needs them to fight and hold the line and die for him.

Not quite - the fallen are Genius in theory, gak in execution. Time and time again they would expect the DA opponent to collect the Fallen Minis. They should have had the DA player collect a squad or so worth of Fallen for their opponent to control that then gives them bonus stuff.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"As soon as the Lion returned to the Imperium, all the Fallen passed the Rubicon Primaris, thereby allowing us to retire the old Dark Angel Veteran Kit!" - Belisarius Cawl

I'm not sure loyalty is really a factor in Cawl's Should-they-cross-the-Rubicon process. Remember when he asked if he could tinker with Traitor Legion DNA? Guilliman assumed he was going to do so at the same time Guilliman was refusing permission to do so.

**Dai**

The fallen are a bit of a relic of when the horus heresy was mostly mystery and rumour (in world and out). They just dont seem like a big deal now that we know all the ins and outs of all that drama to me. Shame.

**Breton**

Dai wrote:
The fallen are a bit of a relic of when the horus heresy was mostly mystery and rumour (in world and out). They just dont seem like a big deal now that we know all the ins and outs of all that drama to me. Shame.

I haven't kept up on the HH books, so maybe they added soemthing? But most of the mystery of the Fallen is post HH - I mean they didn't even exist until the very end of it. And part of the appeal of the fallen was the race between the DA to capture them, and the Imperium to discover them as they lead a little warband here, or play Machiavelli there. The problem is, again, GW expected the Tau and GSC etc players to buy and paint of a squad of Fallen just in case they ran across a DA player.

**Mr Morden**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I want the Lion to come back, check in with the DA&co, then be like 'you spent 10k years doing WHAT!?' And be furious that they wasted all this time BEING borderline traitorous over their individual vendetta instead of, ya know, actually serving loyally.

Happy with that

**Breton**

I don't know, there should be some of that but the main opinion should be in keeping with what they did. I mean Guilliman had a minor course correction, not a major melt down because their gene children are generally echoes of the primarch. Plus it kind of gives him a lot of knowledge he shouldn't have and time to come to grips with a major shakeup when the last thing he remembers is destroying his own planet in a fight with the Big Daddy Fallen, Luther.

**mrFickle**

The fallen are scattered across space and time, there is only an assumption that they are gathered in any numbers. But they are old school legion in numbers so if they did all get together they would be a huge player in the galaxy. But it think it’s more likely they have only been only gather into war bands unless there’s a planet in the eye of terror where they have been living and building their forces.

I doubt it would be hard for them to gather weapons, all other CSM manage to do it.

Cypher is the real question mark that will determine the direction of the fallen as he’s a popular character and GW have painted him as neither hero or villain recently.

I see it as most likely there will be a force of fallen on one of the arks and they make up part of vashtorrs army. For the sake of models they will have become choatic so the current range of models can be used and the DA veteran unit is for fallen that didn’t fall to chaos and actually didn’t want to fight for Luther