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Yeah Warriors are incredibly multi-role. They have more options than 95% of 40k units, tbh.

I think it was 3-4th when they could be your HQs too, and you didn't need a Hive Tyrant or other "character" to lead your army. That was very atmospheric, I felt, as it makes little sense that a "hero" be showing up to every skirmish at the front of a huge swarm.

For a long time Tyranids relied heavily on the versatility of Warriors and Carnifex to do so many roles in the game for them. It let their army have a lot of inherent diversity without having to have a lot of model variety. Heck technically if GW got really fancy with sculpting they could release 1 gaunt sprue and just give it wing/close combat/ranged optional parts.


It's a little less evident now because the range has grown a lot over the years and there are now lots of specialist models alongside the generic all-takers kinds.

I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

 Insectum7 wrote:

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

I can't believe we don't have an IG character named Dutch Shaefernegger yet.

Iracundus wrote:
Hormagaunts in 2nd edition had a 6" leap in addition to the 12" run/charge move, meaning they had a move and threat range of 18". This meant they were an extreme threat as they were also dirt cheap compared to a Tyranid Warrior in 2nd edition (55 points for a Warrior, 8 for a Hormagaunt). Facing a horde of 100 Hormagaunts in 2nd edition was terrifying as they closed the distance so fast and many armies just could not pump out enough shots to thin them down enough. They also effectively screened the larger creatures. I saw them tear apart Terminators through sheer numbers or tar pit characters long enough for Genestealers, or a Carnifex or Tyrant to close in and finish off in the multiple combat.

Maneuver was essential in these circumstances and with forces like the IG, sacrificial squads were also necessary to breaking up the charge. Dreadnoughts were very effective, since in those days they are big enough to just leave a melee if they wanted to, and could then turn around and hose it down. That's why I still play that edition.

The question (and others like it) reminds me of a discussion among military historians about best tank or aircraft or whatnot, and often time the discussion devolves to a pure comparison of physical characteristics and capabilities (max armor or speed, armament, etc.). The problem is that this assumes something that rarely happened, which is a straight-up fight on a level field (or a cloudless sky). It also ignores other factors like mechanical reliability, tactical awareness, etc.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the IG doesn't field any units of pure lasguns - they augment them with squad-level support. In actual combat, the proportion of these weapons would be much higher than in the codex because as the guys with the special/heavy weapons get hit, others will drop their lasguns and take up their weapons if possible. We see this repeatedly in actual combat, where veteran units are short on riflemen and pick up ever more of the "choice" weapons as casualties mount.

(This was also possible in 2nd, where IG heavy weapons were their own models with an armor value and fallen crew members could be replaced.)

Another element is that a tyranid warrior is closer to a light combat vehicle than a grunt infantryman in terms of size, durability and capability. The IG equivalent is really a Sentinel, which is manned by one Imperial guardsman.

So there's my answer: just one so long as he has the right gear.

 Insectum7 wrote:

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

The guy who hunts lictors for sport (canon, yes it is) would get taken down by a Warrior? Do tell.

If you put them in a cage fight, the Warrior would easily overpower Sly. But in an actual battlefied Sly probably would just blow up the Warrior with a melta or demolition charge.

The thing about Sly is that he never fights fair, because he is an expert at asymmetric tactics and sabotage.

Sly would kill a warrior no ifs nor buts. Even if the warrior threw a whole swarm at Sly, Sly would win.

Because Sly is an Arny/Rambo style killing machine from the 80s action films.




The only thing the Tyranids could throw at Sly that wouldn't be an outright win for Sly is the Swarmlord and if the Swarmlord and Sly fought there'd be a few endings

1) Sly wins outright, killing the Swarmlord and following its essence back into the Hive Mind and killing it there too. Probably with the help of some spunky upcoming psycher where they'd both almost die but would just come around in the nick of time after killing the Swarmlord for good

2) They'd trade blows for ages and Sly would win the fight, forcing the Swarmlord to retreat. Or the Swarmlord would escape the fight.

Either way they'd clash and break apart, coming back together each week in even more contrived and wild encounters. This would continue for many many years until they have to team up on the battlefield to defeat a super-powerful Greater Demon. Ending the allied fight with a grudging respect of each other and slinking away, but never having a chance to fight each other again

3) After one mighty battle where neither Sly nor the Swarmlord wins, Sly would dedicate his life to hunting the Swarmlord. Taking on ever bigger, greater and more deadly foes in his never-ending hunt for the Swarmlord; who would always slip away, escape or otherwise elude encountering Sly again. Until they are both too old to fight and find that they are living in the same retirement home. At which point they join forces against the most fearsome foe of the realm at that time and take on the cafeteria Lunch Lady for better quality soup during lunchtimes.
They win and get the soup!*

4) The Swarmlord would deal a mortal blow to Sly, nearly but not quite killing him. Sly would then go on to fall from grace, developing a drunk/drug/slaanesh addiction for several decades until being brought out of retirement by some plucky young kid called "New Sly". Sly would then train "New Sly" in all his warrior ways until New Sly sets forth to take on the Swarmlord.

Note during this process its very likely that Old Sly would be killed by the Warrior we are debating at the start; or possibly the Swarmlord.
Upon Old Sly falling and New Sly taking up the mantel please return to the start of this post to find out what happens when NSly fights the Swarmlord.


*Note due to the potential fact that the Swarmlord is nearly eternal it could be a very very long time before Sly and the Swarmlord would be in the same retirement home. Probably involving a lot of warp, tech, mechanicus and other strange things keeping Sly young enough to fight on for all the years he's got to wait for the Swarmlord to retire.

If for no other reason than Sly is a named Character. It's like Yarrick vs a Ork Nob. Sure, most nobs would wipe the floor with a base human, but this is a named character, and thus, plot armor.

For more examples:

Cain vs Warboss
Cain Vs Black Legion astartes
Cain vs Hive Tyrant
Cain vs Dark Eldar

Gaunt vs entire Chaos Warband
Creed (Anything)
Sly vs literally everything.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

The guy who hunts lictors for sport (canon, yes it is) would get taken down by a Warrior? Do tell.

Stories are nice but I'm just thinking about raw stats. I haven't followed his stats throughout the editions, so I don't have historical comparisons. I just wouldn't be surprised if a Tyranid Warrior would kill him in a round of combat.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

Iracundus wrote:
Hormagaunts in 2nd edition had a 6" leap in addition to the 12" run/charge move, meaning they had a move and threat range of 18". This meant they were an extreme threat as they were also dirt cheap compared to a Tyranid Warrior in 2nd edition (55 points for a Warrior, 8 for a Hormagaunt). Facing a horde of 100 Hormagaunts in 2nd edition was terrifying as they closed the distance so fast and many armies just could not pump out enough shots to thin them down enough. They also effectively screened the larger creatures. I saw them tear apart Terminators through sheer numbers or tar pit characters long enough for Genestealers, or a Carnifex or Tyrant to close in and finish off in the multiple combat.

Maneuver was essential in these circumstances and with forces like the IG, sacrificial squads were also necessary to breaking up the charge. Dreadnoughts were very effective, since in those days they are big enough to just leave a melee if they wanted to, and could then turn around and hose it down. That's why I still play that edition.

The question (and others like it) reminds me of a discussion among military historians about best tank or aircraft or whatnot, and often time the discussion devolves to a pure comparison of physical characteristics and capabilities (max armor or speed, armament, etc.). The problem is that this assumes something that rarely happened, which is a straight-up fight on a level field (or a cloudless sky). It also ignores other factors like mechanical reliability, tactical awareness, etc.

Plus, as others have pointed out, the IG doesn't field any units of pure lasguns - they augment them with squad-level support. In actual combat, the proportion of these weapons would be much higher than in the codex because as the guys with the special/heavy weapons get hit, others will drop their lasguns and take up their weapons if possible. We see this repeatedly in actual combat, where veteran units are short on riflemen and pick up ever more of the "choice" weapons as casualties mount.

(This was also possible in 2nd, where IG heavy weapons were their own models with an armor value and fallen crew members could be replaced.)

Another element is that a tyranid warrior is closer to a light combat vehicle than a grunt infantryman in terms of size, durability and capability. The IG equivalent is really a Sentinel, which is manned by one Imperial guardsman.

So there's my answer: just one so long as he has the right gear.

The Imperial Guard does sometimes deploy units without special or heavy weapons, depending on availability etc.

Sometimes, they deploy units without everyone even having a lasgun with the Departmento Munitorum occasionally gaks the bed with the supply chain!

How many Guardsmen does it take to kill a Warrior with fists and shivs?

 Insectum7 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

The guy who hunts lictors for sport (canon, yes it is) would get taken down by a Warrior? Do tell.

Stories are nice but I'm just thinking about raw stats. I haven't followed his stats throughout the editions, so I don't have historical comparisons. I just wouldn't be surprised if a Tyranid Warrior would kill him in a round of combat.

This is the background forum, where lore takes precedence. The stats nerds are over in Tactics. Lore wise and Stats wise, he wrecks the Warrior. Don't be silly.

 Insectum7 wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

goundry wrote:
I can’t believe there’s a “how many guardsmen does it take to kill an X” thread and no one’s made a Sly Marbo joke yet

I wouldn't be surprised if your average Tyranid Warrior easily bests Sly, tbh.

The guy who hunts lictors for sport (canon, yes it is) would get taken down by a Warrior? Do tell.

Stories are nice but I'm just thinking about raw stats. I haven't followed his stats throughout the editions, so I don't have historical comparisons. I just wouldn't be surprised if a Tyranid Warrior would kill him in a round of combat.

Well, there were plenty of editions Sly could one shot the Warrior with a demo charge...

I mean, the current iteration can kill it just with the pistol. If the warrior charges, it eats an ambush for d3 MWs, or possible 2d3 depending on the modifiers and the roll. If the shooting AND the mine doesn't kill, his 5 attacks at S6 AP2 D2, hitting on a 2+, will kill it

 Haighus wrote:

The Imperial Guard does sometimes deploy units without special or heavy weapons, depending on availability etc.

Sometimes, they deploy units without everyone even having a lasgun with the Departmento Munitorum occasionally gaks the bed with the supply chain!

How many Guardsmen does it take to kill a Warrior with fists and shivs?

It is possible to sent tension traps and such. Catachan on a jungle world could have a shot at winning.

On a forge world, they might trick the beast into following them into a press or something.

Guards would need some serious plot armor to take down a Tyranid Warrior.

As in, the scenario was set up so that IG was planning on ambush into Nid territories, prepared all the necessary weapons/gears/etc, got the jump on the said warrior, etc.

If bunch of guardsmen were caught in front of a warrior in midst of a battle, standard hollywood logic would tell us that the warrior just rips the guardsmen into mincemeat like the movie extras they are.

I would be inclined to think that veteran guardsmen would have a good chance at taking it down with their "veteran" status and having access to better weapons though. But not regular guardsmen. Cuz their leadership stat sucks.

Maybe, just MAYBE, if there were 2-3 full squad of guardsmen, and the said guardsmen were being "ordered" to take it down, and had a commissar next to them, maybe they can take down a warriror with 4 to 5 men remaining. But this would still need some major plot armor to pull off.

Is the guardsman's name Jurgen? Is he toting a meltagun?

If so, one.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

This is the background forum, where lore takes precedence. The stats nerds are over in Tactics. Lore wise and Stats wise, he wrecks the Warrior. Don't be silly.

As noted, the lore is all over the place. In the lore, Marneus Calgar defeats an Eldar Avatar. But I do not expect Marneus Calgar to actually defeat an Avatar in a 1v1. Good lore will provide the context necessary for the contest, or will in some cases simply state that it was luck.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The guy who hunts lictors for sport (canon, yes it is) would get taken down by a Warrior? Do tell.

THAT just sounds like bad lore, tbh. In both 9th edition and way back in 3rd edition, the Lictors appear to have a clear advantage. In 3rd/4th edition, Lictors had a better WS, higher Initiative, and Strength 6. Lictors were better at fighting, faster, and have the Strength to one-shot Sly with an Instant Death strike. In 9th they appear to have all the same advantages of Strength, Speed, etc.

 Haighus wrote:

Well, there were plenty of editions Sly could one shot the Warrior with a demo charge...

Yah. . . in some of those editions Sly could one-shot himself with the same demo charge . In those editions a Warrior one-shots Sly with a Venom Cannon, and in at least a few a Tyranid Warrior with the Toxin upgrade one shots Sly with a Deathspitter at S6. He's only T3.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I mean, the current iteration can kill it just with the pistol. If the warrior charges, it eats an ambush for d3 MWs, or possible 2d3 depending on the modifiers and the roll. If the shooting AND the mine doesn't kill, his 5 attacks at S6 AP2 D2, hitting on a 2+, will kill it

Soo, like . . . are we are we doing Guns and Stratagems? Because Warriors get better and longer ranged weapons, in which case Sly is basically toast. I don't know all the ins-and-outs of Tyranid Stratagems, but I imagine they can help quite a bit on that front.

Looking At Warriors it seems to mostly come down to particular biomorphs, fleet adaptations, etc. They're extremely variable.

The Demolition charge Stratagem thing only works in Area Terrain too. I mean, Sly's probably never going to be in a fight with a Warrior not in jungle or jungle-like terrain, so . . . sure. Sly win I guess if we're assuming home-court advantage? Although probably still dependent on biomorphs and adaptations. I think a Dual Bonesword Tyranid Warrior in 9th has a decent chance of killing Sly on the charge if it isn't bombed on the way in. I'm sure there are some other tricks the Warrior can pull but I haven't delved too deeply.

I wish I had more info about the editions in between 3-4th and 9th. But I don't. Realistically though, if a Tyranid Warrior gets hold of a human it can probably just pull their arms off.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:
Is the guardsman's name Jurgen? Is he toting a meltagun?

If so, one.

I admit I don't know that reference.

^^^^^Jurgen is Commissar Cain's attache. He's a psychic blank, and all around general bad . Especially when packing his signature melta gun. He's the guy who makes a lot of Caine's kills for him. Absolutely an awesome character, IMHO.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
^^^^^Jurgen is Commissar Cain's attache. He's a psychic blank, and all around general bad . Especially when packing his signature melta gun. He's the guy who makes a lot of Caine's kills for him. Absolutely an awesome character, IMHO.

Ahh, cool. Thanks!

Good point I for got about Jurgen!

So are we all agreed the thread title is wrong it should be how many tyranid warriors would there need to be to survive fighting Jurgen or sly

goundry wrote:
Good point I for got about Jurgen!

So are we all agreed the thread title is wrong it should be how many tyranid warriors would there need to be to survive fighting Jurgen or sly

Ahh. . . No. . .


Go full meme all you want, I guess. But I've no interest.

I dunno, Brag has infinite Grenades, or did that get patched?

Guard is full of Mary-sue characters that do impossible things.Sly Marbo personally beat an Eldar Farseer in a poker game, with a Chance card from Monopoly and a green six from Uno.

Harker's tears can cure the Emperor, but he's also incapable of crying.

Ciaphas Cain lost his viginity before his dad did.

The Nids just....don't have great characters....

Yah . . . That would be "full meme".

And thank god Nids don't really have characters. The concept of the Swarmlord is too characterey already. Faceless horde of horrors, all the way.

I would say probably 2 Infantry Squads, including special weapons and heavy weapons squads, would handily defeat a single Tyranid Warrior. One would probably do the job, but you need redundancy incase the good weapons go down too fast. Also, it never hurts to bring more meat shield... I mean distractions.

What about old dead eye, or whatever it's name is? There is a old damaged tyranid character I thought. I mean, it doesn't have a book series or anything, their biggest book character being the literal Intelligence behind the entire swarm.

Personally I think that Tyranids should have unique strain organisms which are akin to special characters in other armies.

Whilst Tyranids can design DNA and hyper-evolve its also very clear that their method of reproduction is not a perfect clone system. They do have small variations as a result of their creation. This is how they hyper-evolve to new situations, small differences gain advantage and the vast numbers and rapid spawning rates mean that those small changes get magnified and increased when they show advantage and are selected to be promoted in the next spawned batch.

Such a system clearly has room for unique creations evolving and surviving and being preserved.

There's also potential for creations of a unique class where their creation is perhaps excessive for the Hive Mind and not something it generally produces; or where it requires rare resources or such.



Otherwise the Tyranids would only ever make titans or Hive Tyrants and such. So having a "you get one of these only" style tyranid I think is very valid from an army composition style.

I think it also gives room for Tyranids to have stories about them where there is a character on their side that isn't just a gaunt or something throw-away that the author can kill at the end or where it surviving doesn't really amount to anything in the great scheme of things.

 alextroy wrote:
I would say probably 2 Infantry Squads, including special weapons and heavy weapons squads, would handily defeat a single Tyranid Warrior. One would probably do the job, but you need redundancy incase the good weapons go down too fast. Also, it never hurts to bring more meat shield... I mean distractions.

I thought the guard worked on the rule of 3 to get things done.

The first unit will die before it gets a chance to do anything.
The second one will miss.
But the third, it will get the job done.

 Overread wrote:
Personally I think that Tyranids should have unique strain organisms which are akin to special characters in other armies.

Whilst Tyranids can design DNA and hyper-evolve its also very clear that their method of reproduction is not a perfect clone system. They do have small variations as a result of their creation. This is how they hyper-evolve to new situations, small differences gain advantage and the vast numbers and rapid spawning rates mean that those small changes get magnified and increased when they show advantage and are selected to be promoted in the next spawned batch.

Such a system clearly has room for unique creations evolving and surviving and being preserved.

There's also potential for creations of a unique class where their creation is perhaps excessive for the Hive Mind and not something it generally produces; or where it requires rare resources or such.

Otherwise the Tyranids would only ever make titans or Hive Tyrants and such. So having a "you get one of these only" style tyranid I think is very valid from an army composition style.

I think it also gives room for Tyranids to have stories about them where there is a character on their side that isn't just a gaunt or something throw-away that the author can kill at the end or where it surviving doesn't really amount to anything in the great scheme of things.

I’ll come back to this one (in a positive way) when Mr Brain isn’t knackered at the end of the work week, as you’ve raised some interesting points I’ve not considered before, and may well deserve it’s own thread.