Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

See title. Let's assume the Guardsmen have basic gear-a lasgun and some grenades.

Depending on the size, a smattering of special/heavy weapons would be appropriate too. But let's stick to infantry here.

According to the other thread, a Single guardsman is MORE than a match for the entire Hive Fleet.

 JNAProductions wrote:
See title. Let's assume the Guardsmen have basic gear-a lasgun and some grenades.

Depending on the size, a smattering of special/heavy weapons would be appropriate too. But let's stick to infantry here.

By the odds, more than it takes to down a Space Marine. Tyranids Warriors are bigger, stronger, and tougher. Potentially faster too, if I recall my 2nd ed codex right. Oh yeah, and they caused Fear, unlike Space Marines.

Depends.

Which Regiment, and what’s the Environment? For instance, you’d need fewer Valhallans to do the job on an Ice World than on a Jungle World, simply because that’s their native environment, so they have a home field advantage.

Which version of Tyranid Warrior? 2nd Ed they had low level psychic potential, which could help matters.

Lots of depends going on here. One of the Cain books has half a squad of PDF holding off a warrior and a bunch of gaunts pretty much in their own. Jurgen has also capped a number of larger forms on his own with his melta.

For a warrior that provided sole synapse cover for other forms, then probably quite a lot of Guardsmen would be required to corner it and put it down.

A single warrior at range and being sneaky would again take a lot of guardsmen to corner and get enough las fire into it. A single warrior with close combat weapons running across a bare battlefield probably wouldn’t need that many. The same warrior in close confines would burn its way through an awful lot of guardsmen, and would probably require one of the mooks to do something particularly heroic with a satchel full of grenades to stop.

Probably an infinite amount. Any guardsmen's brain would liquify and run out of their ears when they see the warrior move. It's larger than a marine but also faster, our minds can't handle seeing something that size moving that quickly. Inhuman dread is a thing you know.

/s

Slightly tangential but also maybe relevant: I'm not into tyranid lore and only ever stumbled about them in the Cain books. When a Tyranid warrior "provides synapse" for lesser bioforms, is this "distracting" for him? So must he focus while doing that and can't act that quickly (dodge, attack etc.) or is the "transmitting" done in some part of neurotissue that has nothing to do with its reflexes and stuff?

Let's say it's set up in a forest-neither side has the home field advantage.

The Guard have just deployed, and know there's a threat, but not the exact details of said threat.
The Warrior, we'll say, has just spawned from an ancient Ripper Swarm that gave its last energy to spawn something a little more deadly.

Still going to depend on what bio-weapons the Tyranid Warrior has.

For instance, a Barbed Strangler is going to compete differently compared to a Devourer, as will a Deathspitter, Rending Claws, Scything Talons etc.

If it’s got Spinefists and Scything Talons, it has the issue of getting close enough to get killing, and the nastiness of the deaths will be lesser.

The Barbed Strangler, particularly using its original rules would be a much bigger problem. It has decent enough range, and a single infection could wipe out a squad in a pretty unpleasant manner.

Does the Warrior have any other adaptations, such as able to rapidly regenerate? Because again, that’s going to change how hard it is to put it down and keep it down.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Still going to depend on what bio-weapons the Tyranid Warrior has.

For instance, a Barbed Strangler is going to compete differently compared to a Devourer, as will a Deathspitter, Rending Claws, Scything Talons etc.

If it’s got Spinefists and Scything Talons, it has the issue of getting close enough to get killing, and the nastiness of the deaths will be lesser.

The Barbed Strangler, particularly using its original rules would be a much bigger problem. It has decent enough range, and a single infection could wipe out a squad in a pretty unpleasant manner.

Does the Warrior have any other adaptations, such as able to rapidly regenerate? Because again, that’s going to change how hard it is to put it down and keep it down.

Standard Warrior-no heavy weapons. Deathspitter, Bonesword, Lash Whip.

No ifs no buts, you only need one.

No one said they have to win!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
According to the other thread, a Single guardsman is MORE than a match for the entire Hive Fleet.

Don’t be silly, no one said anything like that.

Andykp wrote:
No ifs no buts, you only need one.

No one said they have to win!

Alright, how many would you need to have good odds of BEATING the Warrior.

Huge variation on context, as others have mentioned. To narrow it down we can use the above Warrior loadout, and assume the basic-equipment guardsman are a normal squad (as in no real combat experience, have just been drafted and sent to the grinder). That still leaves a huge amount of variety, but we can sort it into broad categories:

-Fear Factor: An indefinite number of guardsmen, because the fear and panic of their newbie selves spreads like wildfire as soon as combat begins, worse still if the shadow in the warp is factoring in. This also includes versions of the below scenarios where everyone breaks and flees.

-Warrior Ambushes: ~Two squads (of approximately 10). If the Warrior gets the jump it is going to get into melee range with one squad and more or less butcher them in short order. The second squad would be able to gun it down though.

-Guard Ambushes: Could be as few as one guardsman and a well-thrown grenade. Also includes concepts like setting traps, etc. Not more than one squad needed at any rate.

-Straight fight on planet bowling ball: ~One squad. They have enough firepower and grenades help a lot, enough that the Warrior would be killed before or shortly after reaching melee. Notable here is the Marine comparison; their armour is better, so lasguns will be more effective against a standard Warrior than a marine. Most/all of the squad is probably dead in this scenario.

-Straight fight in light terrain: Not enough to stop line of fire but enough to provide LoS blockage. One squad making smart decisions could cover it, but then the Warrior could probably handle upwards of 5 if they made bad ones. So I'd give a rough estimate of 1-6 squads.

-Straight fight in dense terrain: This is where it gets real bad for the guard. Even from the first round of swaming the Warrior will absolutely be adapted to take advantage of its environment and with synapse it absolutely knows how. The guard, on the other hand, are unlikely to have such skills or knowledge (the assumption I'll go with here). The Warrior is going to basically act like a Lictor with less stealth but more ability to survive brief periods of being exposed. The number of guard needed here is the number required to flush it out of whatever area it is lurking in, because otherwise it will just pick them off bit by bit. Perhaps worth noting that the Warrior need not even 'win' in this scenario as merely stalling for long enough will see the locale subjected to tyrannoformation.

This is all using a generic Warrior and generic Guardsmen, without the special assets of any particular sub faction.

Deathspitter is oddly swingy.

Any Guardsman suffering a palpable hit is D.E.D, ded. The impact alone should seed to that. But then there’s the acid splash damage. That’s difficult if not impossible to fully quantify, as it will depend how densely packed the Guard are, how the original target was hit and their position in the squad’s deployment,

Anyone hit won’t necessarily be a case of instant death - but it’s still horrific acid based injuries, again impacting squad morale.

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

 Pyroalchi wrote:
Slightly tangential but also maybe relevant: I'm not into tyranid lore and only ever stumbled about them in the Cain books. When a Tyranid warrior "provides synapse" for lesser bioforms, is this "distracting" for him? So must he focus while doing that and can't act that quickly (dodge, attack etc.) or is the "transmitting" done in some part of neurotissue that has nothing to do with its reflexes and stuff?

As a node it it effectively part of the hive mind, so I don’t think it takes processing time as such. However if it is he only node, the hive mind will likely try to keep it alive and away from danger so it am continue to function.

Andykp wrote:
No ifs no buts, you only need one.

No one said they have to win!

I've been fighting the urge to post exactly that answer

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

Could a Tyranid Warrior beat 10,000 Imperial Guard?

 Altruizine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

Could a Tyranid Warrior beat 10,000 Imperial Guard?

That sounds more like he's mixed up a Tyranid Warrior and a Hive Tyrant.

 Overread wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

Could a Tyranid Warrior beat 10,000 Imperial Guard?

That sounds more like he's mixed up a Tyranid Warrior and a Hive Tyrant.

MDG thinks a Space Marine could beat 10,000 Imperial Guard. A Tyranid Warrior is superior to a Space Marine in nearly every regard. Therefore, according to Transitive Property Dread, MDG must believe a Tyranid Warrior could beat 10,000 Imperial Guard.

Hmm that's a true point and logic that one cannot deny! For to deny it would be to deny the might of the Space Marines and by association the might of the swarm.

Come on, I think that were enough sassy comments.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Andykp wrote:
No ifs no buts, you only need one.

No one said they have to win!

Alright, how many would you need to have good odds of BEATING the Warrior.

Now that’s a tricky question. I’m thinking starship troopers tactics, dozen or more surround it and open up point blank on full auto.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
This whole thread is about picking a fight. It's sad really.

That depends how seriously you take it. If you accept there is no side that isn’t silly it could be good fun.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

Could a Tyranid Warrior beat 10,000 Imperial Guard?

Potentially? Yeah.

If it has regenerative properties, and access to biomass to fuel such, the Tyranid Warrior may become functionally unstoppable, even if said regeneration takes a bit of time.

We’ve seen Tyranid Warriors manifest psychic abilities, including The Horror, which can greatly disorganise a deployment. We’ve seen The Hive Mind puppet an otherwise ruined Tyranid organism well after the point it should be deceased.

So again, it’s a matter of time needed. Unlikely, not impossible.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Altruizine wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Overall, I’d say a mid sized platoon stands a pretty decent chance overall, especially if they have Heavy Weapons in a decent deployment using the local environment, even more so if they’re Heavy Bolters, which offer probably the ideal mix of accuracy, rate of fire, penetration and damage potential.

Could a Tyranid Warrior beat 10,000 Imperial Guard?

Potentially? Yeah.

If it has regenerative properties, and access to biomass to fuel such, the Tyranid Warrior may become functionally unstoppable, even if said regeneration takes a bit of time.

We’ve seen Tyranid Warriors manifest psychic abilities, including The Horror, which can greatly disorganise a deployment. We’ve seen The Hive Mind puppet an otherwise ruined Tyranid organism well after the point it should be deceased.

So again, it’s a matter of time needed. Unlikely, not impossible.

Such is the way of plot armor. In a Tyranid novel or codex the warrior can absolutely roll up a whole guard regiment, in a Guard novel he gets smacked by under-kitchenhand Bobius' flip-flop.

One lasgunshot deals 0.08 damage to a tyranid Warrior. Let's assume they are not in rapid fire range. On average it takes 38 guardsmen to deal 3 wounds to a tyranid Warrior. A lot more of it is johrmungander. So you probably want to go up to 50 to beat the variations in the bell curve. That way you can also loose some of them before you get to shoot.

 Niiai wrote:
One lasgunshot deals 0.08 damage to a tyranid Warrior. Let's assume they are not in rapid fire range. On average it takes 38 guardsmen to deal 3 wounds to a tyranid Warrior. A lot more of it is johrmungander. So you probably want to go up to 50 to beat the variations in the bell curve. That way you can also loose some of them before you get to shoot.

That number ofc goes down a lot once you include stuff like squad- and platoon-level special weapons like grenade launchers or autocannons. Which is quite lore-accurate, lasgun fire does not do much against the larger warriors, but support weapons quite reliably take them out if you can line up a shot.

You do that math. I qeuiomed mine with las guns.

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Probably an infinite amount. Any guardsmen's brain would liquify and run out of their ears when they see the warrior move. It's larger than a marine but also faster, our minds can't handle seeing something that size moving that quickly. Inhuman dread is a thing you know.

/s

lmao

In all seriousness, I don't see how this kind of theorizing has any relevance outside of tabletop games or video games. In real life, where you're not dealing with D6 rolls or preset amounts of damage and health, both guardsmen and tyranids can find themselves in situations where killing the other side is like shooting fish in a barrel. All in all, though, I think the Imperial Guard is better at engineering such situations than the tyranid hive mind.

What's the purpose of this thread, anyway? If you're wondering how to write an action scene involving guardsmen vs. tyranid warriors, I would write it like the soldiers of Gondor fighting the trolls that burst through the gates of Minas Tirith, or the riders of Rohan fighting the Mumakil, in Peter Jackson's Return of the King. A tyranid warrior emerges and swiftly tears through a bunch of guardsmen with great sweeps of its claws. The guardsmen hold the line and lay down a hail of lasfire. Through grit, persistence and sacrifice, they eventually take it down. Then they move on to the next one. Numbers and ratios don't really matter that much for dramatic purposes, so long as the tyranid warriors are shown to be a credible threat.

If the purpose of this thread is a factional d*ck-measuring contest, then it'll go nowhere, just like the Space Marine vs. 10,000 guardsmen thread.

.

-Guardsman- wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Probably an infinite amount. Any guardsmen's brain would liquify and run out of their ears when they see the warrior move. It's larger than a marine but also faster, our minds can't handle seeing something that size moving that quickly. Inhuman dread is a thing you know.

/s

lmao

In all seriousness, I don't see how this kind of theorizing has any relevance outside of tabletop games or video games. In real life, where you're not dealing with D6 rolls or preset amounts of damage and health, both guardsmen and tyranids can find themselves in situations where killing the other side is like shooting fish in a barrel. All in all, though, I think the Imperial Guard is better at engineering such situations than the tyranid hive mind.

What's the purpose of this thread, anyway? If you're wondering how to write an action scene involving guardsmen vs. tyranid warriors, I would write it like the soldiers of Gondor fighting the trolls that burst through the gates of Minas Tirith, or the riders of Rohan fighting the Mumakil, in Peter Jackson's Return of the King. A tyranid warrior emerges and swiftly tears through a bunch of guardsmen with great sweeps of its claws. The guardsmen hold the line and lay down a hail of lasfire. Through grit, persistence and sacrifice, they eventually take it down. Then they move on to the next one. Numbers and ratios don't really matter that much for dramatic purposes, so long as the tyranid warriors are shown to be a credible threat.

If the purpose of this thread is a factional d*ck-measuring contest, then it'll go nowhere, just like the Space Marine vs. 10,000 guardsmen thread.

.

Or if you wanna be real on the nose. Alien 2 will provide some inspiration!

Dai wrote:

-Guardsman- wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
Probably an infinite amount. Any guardsmen's brain would liquify and run out of their ears when they see the warrior move. It's larger than a marine but also faster, our minds can't handle seeing something that size moving that quickly. Inhuman dread is a thing you know.

/s

lmao

In all seriousness, I don't see how this kind of theorizing has any relevance outside of tabletop games or video games. In real life, where you're not dealing with D6 rolls or preset amounts of damage and health, both guardsmen and tyranids can find themselves in situations where killing the other side is like shooting fish in a barrel. All in all, though, I think the Imperial Guard is better at engineering such situations than the tyranid hive mind.

What's the purpose of this thread, anyway? If you're wondering how to write an action scene involving guardsmen vs. tyranid warriors, I would write it like the soldiers of Gondor fighting the trolls that burst through the gates of Minas Tirith, or the riders of Rohan fighting the Mumakil, in Peter Jackson's Return of the King. A tyranid warrior emerges and swiftly tears through a bunch of guardsmen with great sweeps of its claws. The guardsmen hold the line and lay down a hail of lasfire. Through grit, persistence and sacrifice, they eventually take it down. Then they move on to the next one. Numbers and ratios don't really matter that much for dramatic purposes, so long as the tyranid warriors are shown to be a credible threat.

If the purpose of this thread is a factional d*ck-measuring contest, then it'll go nowhere, just like the Space Marine vs. 10,000 guardsmen thread.

.

Or if you wanna be real on the nose. Alien 2 will provide some inspiration!

To be fair, in Aliens (Sequel to Alien) the majority of xenomorphs were killed by non-marines. The actual Marines killed very few. Most were Turrets, Ripley herself, or the therm-nuclear explosion the "size of Nebraska" at the end of the film. Actual Marines killed like, less than 10, and that's including Hudson wasting an entire magazine on a facehugger.