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warboss wrote: I disagree with the requirement of "instead" but I do think there is wisdom in your advice on also stating what worked in this show.
While I preferred He-Man for various reasons (it was the new show with new episodes, had toys, was expanding, etc), I still liked Thundarr but for strangely the opposite reason.. it pulled off the technobarbarian theme alot better to me as a child than He-Man did where the tech was just something usually unnecessarily bolted on and the fantasy elements were preferable (Battlecat > Sky Sled!). It truly felt more integral to the episodes than with He-Man.
This is pretty much all I remember about Thundarr, the feel of the setting. He-Man basically felt like a radical, even dudical, toy commercial, but Thundarr felt like a world full of stories. Not that I remember any of them.
From He-Man I remember nothing but the theme song and the weird rotoscoped animation, specifically the re-used footage of someone walking towards the camera to punch it.
From Thundarr, I remember the backgrounds, the look of the characters, the opening narration and the feeling that provoked, and the sense of mystery about the world.
Would Thundarr be considered an edge case Dying Earth or post(postpostpostpost)apocalyptic instead? I was looking over the wikipedia entry on the genre and I think it's a grey area here with the setting being thousands of years after an apocalypse rather than the gradual natural dying out of the planet.
I personally would include any far future setting with magic and superstition in ascension and science forgotten except for it’s lingering horrors. I thought the Vance stories nailed it. I’d include Gene Wolf in the Dying Earth subgenre, as well as Stephen King’s Dark Tower books. Clark Ashton Smith’s Xothique might be more of an edge case in that I don’t remember there being any robots or other horrors of science, but they were written before the A bomb, so that tracks.
Technically Thundarr might not count? To me it feels very much like the Dying Earth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/20 18:21:43
A lot of fondly remembered cartoons from the 80s and 90s reused animation shamelessly.
They were a bit better about it than Scooby or Yogi but it was there.
I was watching Dairugger (aka Space Voltron) and yeah, 30 second everyone get into to their ships sequence, 30 seconds to launch, 30 seconds to form Dairugger/Vehicle Voltron, 10 seconds to Form Blazing Sword. Then more subtle reuses of talking heads, reaction shots, etc. With not much work you could fill half an episode before you have to draw a single cell.
Sailor Moon, where everyone wore either a school uniform or a seishi uniform I bet you could do a whole episode only having animate the monster of the week.
But that's not the subject, the subject is Thundarr.
I, for one, am deeply offended by the super wokity woke and wholly imagine Hollywood exec who, between lines of coke, decided to make Ookla the Mooc, Ariel and Thundarr a polyamorous thuple and start each episode with 5 1/2 minutes of lavishly animated graphic sex.
I, for one, am deeply offended by the super wokity woke and wholly imagine Hollywood exec who, between lines of coke, decided to make Ookla the Mooc, Ariel and Thundarr a polyamorous thuple and start each episode with 5 1/2 minutes of lavishly animated graphic sex.
You're such an optimist that it's quaint. We're more likely to have Ookla and Ariel team up to overthrow the abusive Thrundarr (now with an obvious combover instead of a mullet and bangs) and then have the orgy with just the two of them after Ookla's splashy gender reveal. I prefer your prior idea of a Liberace crossover episode (like the old Scooby Doo episodes with Don Knotts and Sonny and Cher!) as a musical overlord that Thundarr and friends redeem. Bonus points for a musical duet with Ookla of course.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
This is pretty much all I remember about Thundarr, the feel of the setting. He-Man basically felt like a radical, even dudical, toy commercial, but Thundarr felt like a world full of stories. Not that I remember any of them.
From He-Man I remember nothing but the theme song and the weird rotoscoped animation, specifically the re-used footage of someone walking towards the camera to punch it.
From Thundarr, I remember the backgrounds, the look of the characters, the opening narration and the feeling that provoked, and the sense of mystery about the world.
^ This. I'd go out on a limb to say most of us remember how the show made us feel, and not so much the episodes themselves. A major part of Thundarr were the voice actors, the music, and a setting that was outside of all safe zones so it had an edge other cartoons didn't.
For example I never felt any real urgency to He-Man. Maybe the episodes were better, but most times it felt predictable and was awash with '80s mores.
Since kids were spending so much time in front of the TV I guess the idea was to give them some food for thought since TV became a replacement for parenting.
In Thundarr there were no - public service announcements - as with He-Man, Gi-Joe etc) no message at all... it just dropped you in this jacked up future and ran with it. You were in charge of keeping yourself safe.
As to the PC question. By yesterday's standards Thundarr was a mildly be-grudged sexist, but by todays standards he'd be labeled misogynist up for cancel since he questioned Ariel's lead more often than not.
Did Thundarr hate women? Most certainly not... that aside, it was this straight forward attitude that made him stand out from dull characters like He-Man who's lines had to have been approved by 1980's media censors/ethicists.
By contrast Thundarr spoke his mind as things occurred to him, unfiltered.
Here's a great documentary with the creators on the history here:
So it can't be made by Hollywood now even though it was probably one of the few shows that featured a minority character as one of the leads.
From my understanding Ariel was part Chinese through her grandfather (correct me if wrong) in addition to this of course was her dark hair and complexation, atypical for a heroine of the time.
So in that regard Thundarr was ahead of the game if that's what's supposed to count.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/20 20:37:55
I seem to remember more of the Herculoids than Thundarr…. but my memory is pretty hazy. It was a long time ago.
And while I have been repeatedly disappointed by attempts to bring back childhood memory shows, I remain ever hopeful that I will see something decent once in awhile. My nostalgia is optimistic.
Also… I would love to see a decent Gamma World tv series based on the 1st edition artwork and modules…. as well as then being followed by a spin-off of Metamorphosis Alpha. It seems to me these things all influenced each other… bringing us to Fallout today… roll on Fallout TV series, ☢️
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/21 19:02:15
Keeping on topic, it looks like Thundarr is owned by Warner/Discovery.
Which means they're unlikely to put up money to develop a half-forgotten old property, especially when they don't think Batgirl or a Scooby Doo prequel will be profitable enough.
They won't even keep old Looney Tunes and Sesame Street up on HBO.
So this may all be academic unless someone licensees the rights.
WRT to its original cancellation I suggest the following pitch for Thundarr the Return:
Thundarr is captured by the Ka-Ren, a tribe of female psychic pacifists who tame his violent ways and turn him into their peaceful servant. However when the Cracked Heads, a tribe of insane violent raiders, attack they must undo it and restore him. After defeating them, with assistance from Princess Ariel and Ookla the Moq, Thundarr then turns to the camera and explains that while violence is wrong some foes can only be met with greater violence and that is when you need Thundarr! The! Barbarian!
Cue credits.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/01/21 08:49:29
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Keeping on topic, it looks like Thundarr is owned by Warner/Discovery.
Which means they're unlikely to put up money to develop a half-forgotten old property, especially when they don't think Batgirl or a Scooby Doo prequel will be profitable enough.
At least we know from the recent hit show Velma that if they do green light it then it'll be an entertaining and respectful continuation of the original.
I've never hated Lavergne and Shirley so much as now after I read the last bullet point. **Insert Mok roar here!**
I've been looking on youtube for clips and the show is definitely different than I remember. Hello, Swamp Virgin! Women, ha!
At least it prophetically predicted the collapse of the US comic book market. I'd also never have picked up on the dig on Marvel by Kirby either. I'm left wondering what additional onion peel layers I missed due to my tender age when watching it in reruns during the mid to late 80s.
It absolutely does the job (especially with exposition) in getting you up to speed as a new child viewer but it doesn't/didn't give me goosebumps though. Thundercats did and still does for me though even though it was almost my last childhood fandom (I think TMNT came next/last). I'd also include the Xmen cartoon intro but I was a teen by then and it was also the 90's so I classify that with a different era along with Gargoyles.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/21 14:48:39
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
In Episode 2 of Thundarr the Return he will fight the warrior women Lah'Vern and Shi'rili and their leader the pig man Sergeant Squealy, if they defeat him, it's all over.
Which means they're unlikely to put up money to develop a half-forgotten old property, especially when they don't think Batgirl or a Scooby Doo prequel will be profitable enough.
Ah... on that note, exactly such a prequel show centering on (and named after) Velma just got underway, three episodes out that I know of. And it's a prime example of why I don't want to see any more legacy franchises 'remade for modern audiences'. Freddy is written as an spoiled rich white kid, so dumb and pampered he can't even use silverware.
That's not a joke. He's literally handed a steak, a fork, and a knife in court and he cannot figure out how to use them. Cue everyone else laughing at the stupid rich white kid.
Which means they're unlikely to put up money to develop a half-forgotten old property, especially when they don't think Batgirl or a Scooby Doo prequel will be profitable enough.
Ah... on that note, exactly such a prequel show centering on (and named after) Velma just got underway, three episodes out that I know of. And it's a prime example of why I don't want to see any more legacy franchises 'remade for modern audiences'. Freddy is written as an spoiled rich white kid, so dumb and pampered he can't even use silverware.
That's not a joke. He's literally handed a steak, a fork, and a knife in court and he cannot figure out how to use them. Cue everyone else laughing at the stupid rich white kid.
That's just sad really. It sounds like they somehow managed to become less sensible, benevolent and aware than the average early 80s saturday morning cartoon. Back then it was all a bit silly and hamfisted, but at least they wanted to be inclusive and open-minded, if only to sell more stuff. These remakes sound like they don't even want that anymore, but just exist to produce media outrage and get a rise out of people.
That's just what the evil technomagocracy wants you to think. You need to rebel just like Thundarr did! Admittedly my interpretation does jive more with the overall tone of your remake though...
So I spent part of this morning watching youtube compilations of 80s cartoon intros... thanks, thread! Lol. It's been a while since I chomped down on breakfast listening to the intro from the Heathcliff and Mysterious Cities of Gold cartoons.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/21 22:24:36
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
Now, I look forward to the Dying Earth cinematic universe with Thundarr!, the Herculoids, and whoever else they manage to dig up (maybe the Sectaurs they same company did them too). Each with their own intro movie, who then team up in an epic cross-over film. As imagined by Kid Kyoto as the Executive Producer and Warboss as the head writer!
Ok, thanks for that rabbit hole. I don't remember those as a kid, and am kinda glad of that. I absolutely don't want to overthink the ability to share an insects 'pleasure and pain.'
Didn't know the Coleco connection either, despite my first impression of a video game console was a ColecoVision (Though my family went with Atari). Didn't know they were originally the Connecticut Leather Company either and involved in Cabbage Patch Kids. That's rather wild, and a bit... something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/24 23:03:57
Now, I look forward to the Dying Earth cinematic universe with Thundarr!, the Herculoids, and whoever else they manage to dig up (maybe the Sectaurs they same company did them too). Each with their own intro movie, who then team up in an epic cross-over film. As imagined by Kid Kyoto as the Executive Producer and Warboss as the head writer!
It doesn’t include Thundarr because he was held by different rights, but for a big crossover from those various old cartoons you can check out the Future Quest comic series. Off the top of my head, Jonny Quest, Space Ghost, Herculoids, and Frankenstein Jr all make an appearance, but there’s also multiple more.
Now, I look forward to the Dying Earth cinematic universe with Thundarr!, the Herculoids, and whoever else they manage to dig up (maybe the Sectaurs they same company did them too). Each with their own intro movie, who then team up in an epic cross-over film. As imagined by Kid Kyoto as the Executive Producer and Warboss as the head writer!
Don't forget Thundercats who lived on 'Third Earth'
So, OK, in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future Earth has been devastated and colonized by aliens and interdimensional beings. The unleashed psychic energy has caused magic/psychics to become viable again (tip of the hat to Rifts). Various heroes fight to protect the innocent inhabitants of the dying Earth.
Yeah, I'd buy this.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AduroT wrote: It doesn’t include Thundarr because he was held by different rights, but for a big crossover from those various old cartoons you can check out the Future Quest comic series. Off the top of my head, Jonny Quest, Space Ghost, Herculoids, and Frankenstein Jr all make an appearance, but there’s also multiple more.
I did not know about this book, something to look for later.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/25 08:37:24
AduroT wrote: It doesn’t include Thundarr because he was held by different rights, but for a big crossover from those various old cartoons you can check out the Future Quest comic series. Off the top of my head, Jonny Quest, Space Ghost, Herculoids, and Frankenstein Jr all make an appearance, but there’s also multiple more.
I LOVED Thundarr. I looked forward to it every Saturday morning. Looking back, it was really quite a bold story for its time a d certainly for a Saturday morning cartoon. I could see a live action movie or Prime series for sure. I can't believe there wouldn't be a huge fantasy for something like this.
What a blast from the past. Thanks for raising this memory.
Interesting brothers. I'm dying at the "Cocked Rifles" (closest they got to Hawkmen?)...and as far as Crooked Dice I see Thundarrcats so that's a good start.
When I look around at various fan interpretations, it seems Thundarr is just a tad off looking more often than with other super heroes and their fan spawns. Maybe I'm over-generalizing here. But if you wanted a good Thundarr you could just use a He-Man template.
Here's some different takes takes around the web, including some original concepts (couldn't figure out how to get them to preview so forgive me of the text links):
After watching a few Thundarr clips over the past two weeks, some interesting things have popped up in my youtube recommended feed. While not Thundarr (predates it by 2-3 years), this feels very similar and I have zero recollection of reruns of it in my childhood.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!