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I haven’t watched the adepticon stuff but read the press release and all data sheets needed for your army to play 10th with be available and I think this means stratagems etc aswell.

So codexes will become a collectors item for additional lore etc. I think this is a great idea buuuuuuuut …… it sounds a bit too good to be true.

Do you think this is a compromise because some 9th codexes have just come out and eventually we will need to buy codexes as they enhance 10th or have GW learned the benefit of providing free stuff to get people playing the game???

mrFickle wrote:
I haven’t watched the adepticon stuff but read the press release and all data sheets needed for your army to play 10th with be available and I think this means stratagems etc aswell.

So codexes will become a collectors item for additional lore etc. I think this is a great idea buuuuuuuut …… it sounds a bit too good to be true.

Do you think this is a compromise because some 9th codexes have just come out and eventually we will need to buy codexes as they enhance 10th or have GW learned the benefit of providing free stuff to get people playing the game???

its the Indexes of 8e agian. they WILL be bringing out new codexes, but in order to factilate the datasheet and rules change, they are producing "get you by" rules.

It's GW. There's no way they won't ruin it again by adding more bloat to codex releases. It'll be 8th over again because they still haven't learned the codex system is garbage

There seems to be a lot of confusion around this. The situation is very simple: there will be free Index rules at the start of 10th. These will be completely replaced by each new Codex in exactly the same way 8th operated. You're going to need your Codex to play.

Also of note, GW have been telling us for 2 editions that the core rules are free. While that's been technically true, it's almost impossible to play a game of 40k using the free rules. There's always been something missing from the free version, whether it was terrain rules, missions, or army composition. I'm willing to bet whatever free core rules are provided will have similar restrictions.

From what I read in the WHC article (didnt watch the livestream), datasheets will be free, but will also be made avaiable as faction cards which are sold separately. So, going by current GW pricings, you will be effectively paying your "codex tax" in the form of faction cards set instead.

I personally have no objections to this. I always hated physical codexes with their redundant lore and modelling pages, making the books less useful as faction references due to the superfluous "filler".

The Core rulebook will probably cost about the same as with previous editions. Cheapest way to get one will most likely be off ebay when the 10th ed launch box is released.

Free rules might turn out to be viable this time around. GW will get their book tax monies from the faction cards and official custom dice, so there might not exist a need to act stingy with the rules content.

Only thing about all this which still seems pretty vague is where PL/points values for the units will be found in. And will these be free or locked away in the 40K app or something?

 tauist wrote:
From what I read in the WHC article (didnt watch the livestream), datasheets will be free, but will also be made avaiable as faction cards which are sold separately. So, going by current GW pricings, you will be effectively paying your "codex tax" in the form of faction cards set instead.

I personally have no objections to this. I always hated physical codexes with their redundant lore and modelling pages, making the books less useful as faction references due to the superfluous "filler".

I think you're going to be disappointed. Codecies will still be a thing. They'll supercede the free Index-style rules as they're released.

Core Rules, Indexes and, importantly, points will be free from launch.

Whether that extends beyond Codex Release we can only guess at. I do hope so, but realistically I expect not.

Slipspace wrote:

 tauist wrote:
From what I read in the WHC article (didnt watch the livestream), datasheets will be free, but will also be made avaiable as faction cards which are sold separately. So, going by current GW pricings, you will be effectively paying your "codex tax" in the form of faction cards set instead.

I personally have no objections to this. I always hated physical codexes with their redundant lore and modelling pages, making the books less useful as faction references due to the superfluous "filler".

I think you're going to be disappointed. Codecies will still be a thing. They'll supercede the free Index-style rules as they're released.

This is 40K we are talking about. I cannot be disappointed if I have no real expectations towards it

I survived 9th ed without buying a single codex, I reckon I can survive 10th as well

Slipspace wrote:

 tauist wrote:
From what I read in the WHC article (didnt watch the livestream), datasheets will be free, but will also be made avaiable as faction cards which are sold separately. So, going by current GW pricings, you will be effectively paying your "codex tax" in the form of faction cards set instead.

I personally have no objections to this. I always hated physical codexes with their redundant lore and modelling pages, making the books less useful as faction references due to the superfluous "filler".

I think you're going to be disappointed. Codecies will still be a thing. They'll supercede the free Index-style rules as they're released.

I’m not saying you are wrong but the press release does state that they know we don’t want to be lugging books around, plus I think they will want to direct more attention to their app so if you can get all the data sheets and as they update for a subscription to WH+ then this will probably cover the income stream loss on some codex sales. People will always want codexes though, they can be a thing of beauty.

There was talk at one stage of the game being tied further to the official 'app', so my suspicion is that the rules and points will only be "free" as part of your subscription to that.
In other words, a dreadful idea.

 MalusCalibur wrote:
There was talk at one stage of the game being tied further to the official 'app', so my suspicion is that the rules and points will only be "free" as part of your subscription to that.
In other words, a dreadful idea.

If A) the app is good and B ) having a sub unlocks everything, that would be fine.

How does AoS do it? I don't play it, but I am told that the army books are not actually needed to play, being mostly fluff. All the warscrolls and rules are free to use - even for new units.

Is this true? Could 40k be using the same idea?

If the rules for an army really fit on two sheets of paper + datacards, the incentive to buy a $50 book for those two pages will be even less than it is now.

In my experience, even when people own the Codex, they still use Wahapedia to look up rules during a game since it's searchable, updated with errata and better laid out.

Domandi wrote:
How does AoS do it? I don't play it, but I am told that the army books are not actually needed to play, being mostly fluff. All the warscrolls and rules are free to use - even for new units.

Is this true? Could 40k be using the same idea?

I don't see why not. There has been speculation about AoS being a testing ground for future 40K things, this type of thing would play into these speculations.

People on this board have been harping on and on about how the 40K rules should be free. Could GW be finally listening? Any money saved by not having to buy books usually means having more budget for buying miniatures and terrain. In extreme cases, armies receiving their codex very late in an editions lifecycle can defer miniature buying decisions until the player knows what will be a "good investment" to their army. The roaring 20's is all about that instant gratification. If everyone gets their army rules on day one, that maximizes the "shopping window" and prevents player leakage to other forms of entertainment due to getting bored waiting "to be able to play".

Domandi wrote:
How does AoS do it? I don't play it, but I am told that the army books are not actually needed to play, being mostly fluff. All the warscrolls and rules are free to use - even for new units.

Is this true? Could 40k be using the same idea?

It was true, it's less true now. The scrolls are there, yes, but any special abilities are like the 40k app - locked behind an "buy the battletome and enter the code to unlock this content" paywall. So outside of the base unit stats you can't view anything without buying the book and unlocking it.

 tauist wrote:
There has been speculation about AoS being a testing ground for future 40K things, this type of thing would play into these speculations.

AoS/WHFB has been a testing ground for 40k from the very first edition and every edition thereafter. The thing that surprised me is that 10th edition doesn't come with the silly "wheel" + weapons graphic design that AoS uses. I was certain that it was coming. Glad to be wrong for once.

Wayniac wrote:

Domandi wrote:
How does AoS do it? I don't play it, but I am told that the army books are not actually needed to play, being mostly fluff. All the warscrolls and rules are free to use - even for new units.

Is this true? Could 40k be using the same idea?

It was true, it's less true now. The scrolls are there, yes, but any special abilities are like the 40k app - locked behind an "buy the battletome and enter the code to unlock this content" paywall. So outside of the base unit stats you can't view anything without buying the book and unlocking it.

Ahh, ok. That is a bit of a bummer, but I get it. Thanks for answer.

 MalusCalibur wrote:
There was talk at one stage of the game being tied further to the official 'app', so my suspicion is that the rules and points will only be "free" as part of your subscription to that.
In other words, a dreadful idea.

The core rules will be free as will the unit datasheets. They'll be available for download in pdf form. New model datasheets will be released with the box they come in, as they currently are for AoS.

The app will most likely need a codex purchase to unlock army building functionality. I don't know if you will need a rulebook purchase or not. Whatever AoS does is likely the route 10th edition will go. The app isn't necessary as you can still do all that on paper like we used to do back in the 90s.

Wayniac wrote:
It's GW. There's no way they won't ruin it again by adding more bloat to codex releases. It'll be 8th over again because they still haven't learned the codex system is garbage

Well, here it is in stone. Feel free to burn it down if it happens.

I think that Codex World Eaters is a preview of what we should expect from 10th Edition Codexes. Instead of adding adding layer upon layer of rules and/or adding to the list of available traits, new codexes will present optional variants of the army.

CWE has World Eaters and Disciplines of the Red Angel. They share units and basic rules, but they have completely different sets of Stratagems, Relics, and Warlord Traits along with other focused rules. If they keep their one-in-one-out rule when designing subfactions, there is lots of space for both FTP army list and codexes full of premium content.

Rules will be free until they have something new to sell you.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... importantly, points will be free from launch.

Points are already free. This isn't something to praise them over.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, here it is in stone. Feel free to burn it down if it happens.

Don't be so blatantly naive. Some of us here still remember the declarations of "Your armies won't change! Things are staying the same!" at the start of 4th. Lasted all of a month.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Rules will be free until they have something new to sell you.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
... importantly, points will be free from launch.

Points are already free. This isn't something to praise them over.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, here it is in stone. Feel free to burn it down if it happens.

Don't be so blatantly naive. Some of us here still remember the declarations of "Your armies won't change! Things are staying the same!" at the start of 4th. Lasted all of a month.

On that train of thought, can you remember when/where the “last edition ever, updated forever” stuff appeared (was it at 8th or 9th launch)? Came up in discussion today and I swear it was a Twitch stream. Just never seems to have made it to print (or WarCom got retconned which isn’t unthinkable). Two of our group remember it, others swear we’re making it up! GW def claimed it!

As a casual player of small games I'm genuinely interested in this forthcoming edition.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
On that train of thought, can you remember when/where the “last edition ever, updated forever” stuff appeared (was it at 8th or 9th launch)? Came up in discussion today and I swear it was a Twitch stream. Just never seems to have made it to print (or WarCom got retconned which isn’t unthinkable). Two of our group remember it, others swear we’re making it up! GW def claimed it!

It rings a bell, but insaniak (I believe) brought it up in the main thread in N&R.

It’s gonna bloat, GW won’t be able to help themselves. Surely people cannot really be thinking “this is the edition it all changes!!”.
I’ll play around with free rules, but won’t be throwing any money at this edition. Will keep playing my 9th codexes for a while longer.

On the bright side at least this Tyranid Codex is guaranteed to hang around for a while.

And on the not-so-bright side it means that fantastic fluffy rules like daisy-chained psychic powers and adaptive physiologies are likely just going to be replaced with "You're playing Kraken, so you get +1 to movement." as GW massively overcompensates for 9th's bloat and goes in the total opposite direction.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Don't be so blatantly naive. Some of us here still remember the declarations of "Your armies won't change! Things are staying the same!" at the start of 4th. Lasted all of a month.

I'd be inclined to agree had they not clearly called out measurable metrics that we can hold them to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnnyHell wrote:


On that train of thought, can you remember when/where the “last edition ever, updated forever” stuff appeared (was it at 8th or 9th launch)? Came up in discussion today and I swear it was a Twitch stream. Just never seems to have made it to print (or WarCom got retconned which isn’t unthinkable). Two of our group remember it, others swear we’re making it up! GW def claimed it!

Or the Mandela effect.

And GW changes horses mid race multiple times. It would be foolish to assume that they will stick to anything they start.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And GW changes horses mid race multiple times. It would be foolish to assume that they will stick to anything they start.

If they don't then we kick em square in the nuts.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
It's GW. There's no way they won't ruin it again by adding more bloat to codex releases. It'll be 8th over again because they still haven't learned the codex system is garbage

Well, here it is in stone. Feel free to burn it down if it happens.

There was also a blurb somewhere about there being too many startagems and that really hit home for me!