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 AtoMaki wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
So to turn it back on you, don't pretend that SM players don't have this option, because they do

As per the rules we have seen so far, they don't. Detachments are locked to a Faction Keyword and so are the units you can take in your army. So if you go with the Dark Angels Detachment then you can't take any of the basic SM stuff (like Intercessors) because they don't have the Dark Angels Faction Keyword (only Adeptus Asterates). But you must take Dark Angels as your Faction Keyword to be able to take the Dark Angels Detachment. GW will probably fix this with some kind of additional rule but... y'know, personally, I wouldn't bet money on it.

Here's the fething quote from today's FF article:

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example.

Go ahead and try to tell me the bold text doesn't mean what it says.

 Wyldhunt wrote:

Do we think this is an index thing?

Hah!

Anything consolidated in the index won't be coming back in the Codex.

PenitentJake wrote:

Go ahead and try to tell me the bold text doesn't mean what it says.

Have you considered waiting and seeing until some arbitrary future time?

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Do we think this is an index thing?

As I heard it was done to kill WYSIWYG so you can put your model together into anything and the rules will still fit. That sounds sensible, so I doubt it is an Index thing.

PenitentJake wrote:
Go ahead and try to tell me the bold text doesn't mean what it says.

Precision can't snipe Apothecaries either, so while it likely does mean what it says it might be also wrong.

Yeah, it sounds like it's pretty similar to what we have now. You can say your red guys are space wolves if you like the SW rules better than the BA rules; you just won't be able to take Dante in that detachment because his chapter is locked.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Do we think this is an index thing?

As I heard it was done to kill WYSIWYG so you can put your model together into anything and the rules will still fit. That sounds sensible, so I doubt it is an Index thing.

*Builds a blasters akimbo sybarite*
Behold: a melee weapon.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Yeah, how are we feeling about all these weapon consolidations in general? You've got combi-weapon weirdness, "inquisitorial melee weapons", "sybarite weapons", and probably a lot of other examples I've been too inattentive to notice.

Do we think this is an index thing? An attempt to reduce the focus on minutia for the sake of supporting a larger game?

Edit: Or is it just that they've tied the specifics of the weapons to individual datasheets, and they don't want to have to list a bunch of different options for my sybarites?

No, this is permanent thing for the edition. Stu (the 40k lead) mentioned in an interview that went up today on Tabletop Tactics that there are over 2000 datasheets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbq4vnyno4
They're aren't doing this again any time soon.

Datasheets for later books (and datacard sets as they get reprinted) may get some revisions and spot fixes for obvious errors, but this is what the game is now. (personally, I like most of it).
Kill team and necromunda are better scaled for different options.

 AtoMaki wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
So to turn it back on you, don't pretend that SM players don't have this option, because they do

As per the rules we have seen so far, they don't. Detachments are locked to a Faction Keyword and so are the units you can take in your army. So if you go with the Dark Angels Detachment then you can't take any of the basic SM stuff (like Intercessors) because they don't have the Dark Angels Faction Keyword (only Adeptus Asterates). But you must take Dark Angels as your Faction Keyword to be able to take the Dark Angels Detachment. GW will probably fix this with some kind of additional rule but... y'know, personally, I wouldn't bet money on it.

You're entirely wrong. Especially after the article today.
The chapter keywords can't be mixed, but the Faction for all Chapters is Adeptus Astartes.
ALL of these detachments are explicitly open to all chapters. (And from the Tabletop Tactics interview above, the focus on detachments is archetypes, not subfactions. He even mentioned that a 'bike host' detachment is about bikes, not White Scars or Ravenwing)

The reason you can't take Librarians in the righteous crusade detachment is because the detachment says so, not because the librarian doesn't have the Black Templar keyword.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Do we think this is an index thing?

As I heard it was done to kill WYSIWYG so you can put your model together into anything and the rules will still fit. That sounds sensible, so I doubt it is an Index thing.

*Builds a blasters akimbo sybarite*
Behold: a melee weapon.

Ah, yes, it should be: "you can put your model together into anything the unit box allows without any kind of personal modification".

Voss wrote:
ALL of these detachments are explicitly open to all chapters.

Dunno, but those Detachments are all tied to a Chapter-specific Faction Keyword rather than the Adeptus Astarted Faction Keyword like the Gladius Task Force. Unless, of course, you don't need a Faction Keyword to unlock a Detachment (truth to be told, there is no sign of that in the core rules) in which case I'm going to run the Rad-Bombardment Detachment with my AM for sure.

The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Voss wrote:
ALL of these detachments are explicitly open to all chapters.

Dunno, but those Detachments are all tied to a Chapter-specific Faction Keyword rather than the Adeptus Astarted Faction Keyword like the Gladius Task Force. Unless, of course, you don't need a Faction Keyword to unlock a Detachment (truth to be told, there is no sign of that in the core rules) in which case I'm going to run the Rad-Bombardment Detachment with my AM for sure.

We do know, even if you don't (or don't admit it).

For previews, its really clear how this works, and since this is the '10th edition gameplay and rules news and discussion' and not the '10th edition conspiracy theories' thread, it seems worthwhile focusing on what's real rather than fantasies.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Do we think this is an index thing?

As I heard it was done to kill WYSIWYG so you can put your model together into anything and the rules will still fit. That sounds sensible, so I doubt it is an Index thing.

*Builds a blasters akimbo sybarite*
Behold: a melee weapon.

Ah, yes, it should be: "you can put your model together into anything the unit box allows without any kind of personal modification".

Voss wrote:
ALL of these detachments are explicitly open to all chapters.

Dunno, but those Detachments are all tied to a Chapter-specific Faction Keyword rather than the Adeptus Astarted Faction Keyword like the Gladius Task Force. Unless, of course, you don't need a Faction Keyword to unlock a Detachment (truth to be told, there is no sign of that in the core rules) in which case I'm going to run the Rad-Bombardment Detachment with my AM for sure.

In case it wasn't clear, I was just being silly about blasters akimbo. Still, it seems weird to kill WYSIWYG by killing options. I guess the idea is that they don't see the difference between a power sword/agonizer as big enough to warrant coming up with custom points costs/statlines for, so they're just lumping such options into a single melee profile? So rather than worrying about whether your sybarite has a power weapon or a powered-but-also-poison weapon in a 2k game, you just have to know whether he's shooty or stabby or stabby with a blast pistol?

But then, combi-weapons don't seem like they fall in line with that philosophy. People weren't generally mixing combi types left and right in a squad; they were basically taking an extra flamer or melta or plasma gun and also happen to retain their bolter shots when doing so. And the job performed by a combi-melta vs a combi-flamer is way more different than a power sword vs an agonizer. So it doesn't feel like a case of, "these options are similar enough that it isn't worth distinguishing them."

IDK. Seems weird.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Deathwatch are also Factions. They are listed in all relevant entries in addition to the Adeptus Astartes Faction Keyword. However, during army creation, you choose only ONE Faction Keyword so it is either one of those Chapter Keywords OR Adeptus Astartes.

Voss wrote:
...it seems worthwhile focusing on what's real rather than fantasies.

Plastic warhound though!

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Deathwatch are also Factions. They are listed in all relevant entries in addition to the Adeptus Astartes Faction Keyword. However, during army creation, you choose only ONE Faction Keyword so it is either one of those Chapter Keywords OR Adeptus Astartes.

So, i choose ADEPTUS ASTARTES as my faction keyword, then in the next step, select a SONS OF SANGUINIUS detachment.

so long as i meet the requirements of that detachment (requirements, which i might add, that we dont know yet. it could just be "no unit can have faction keywords other than ADEPTUS ASTARTES and/or BLOOD ANGEL."), then i would get THE RED THRIST detachment bonus. hell they may even have a detachment rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword", to solve any potential rules lawyering.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Deathwatch are also Factions. They are listed in all relevant entries in addition to the Adeptus Astartes Faction Keyword. However, during army creation, you choose only ONE Faction Keyword so it is either one of those Chapter Keywords OR Adeptus Astartes.

So, i choose ADEPTUS ASTARTES as my faction keyword, then in the next step, select a SONS OF SANGUINIUS detachment.

so long as i meet the requirements of that detachment (requirements, which i might add, that we dont know yet. it could just be "no unit can have faction keywords other than ADEPTUS ASTARTES and/or BLOOD ANGEL."), then i would get THE RED THRIST detachment bonus. hell they may even have a detachment rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword", to solve any potential rules lawyering.

The Sons of Sanguinius Detachment is tied to the Blood Angels Faction tho while, say, the Gladius Task Force is specifically Adeptus Astartes. It definitely has some kind of relevance because otherwise, they wouldn't include Adeptus Astartes on Chapter-specific datasheets like how Thousand Sons don't have Chaos on their datasheets. Say, if they had a rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword" then stuff like Deathwind Terminators would also become Blood Angels (because they have the Adeptus Astartes Keyword) so having the Blood Angels Keyword wouldn't matter at all... so why is it there then?

I also think they will have some kind of rule for it (or maybe not) but I'm not really willing to take it for granted just because some dudes who have already made a mistake in the same preview said so.

Wow. Didn't expect them to drop HH support for 40k. That's unfortunate since I know a lot of people who ran Contemptors. It's only for tournament play, but several of those people enjoyed going to official tournaments.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
Because they've been turned into distinct model lines, like it or not.

So... the Loyalist Chapters have tons of their own models. What???

TS/DG/WE don't get

Discolord
Dark commune
Dark apostle
Warpsmith
Legionnaires
Accursed cultists
Chosen
Possessed/Master of executions (depending on the book)
Bikers
Raptors
Warp talons
Venomcrawlers

DA/SW get all the generic marine units
BT too but with no psyker
DW are just their own entity and i fully believe they would work better if they were as detached from the loyalist codex as grey knights are

Was there ever a coherent reason given for why WE lost access to Warp Talons? Surely, their lightning claws are no worse than a terminators when it comes to skulls and blood.

PenitentJake wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
So to turn it back on you, don't pretend that SM players don't have this option, because they do

As per the rules we have seen so far, they don't. Detachments are locked to a Faction Keyword and so are the units you can take in your army. So if you go with the Dark Angels Detachment then you can't take any of the basic SM stuff (like Intercessors) because they don't have the Dark Angels Faction Keyword (only Adeptus Asterates). But you must take Dark Angels as your Faction Keyword to be able to take the Dark Angels Detachment. GW will probably fix this with some kind of additional rule but... y'know, personally, I wouldn't bet money on it.

Here's the fething quote from today's FF article:

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example.

Go ahead and try to tell me the bold text doesn't mean what it says.

Yep. As long as you follow restrictions. So marines need to have relevant keyword. Blood angel needed for red fury.

Works well as long as you don't field deathwing terminators etc.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Deathwatch are also Factions. They are listed in all relevant entries in addition to the Adeptus Astartes Faction Keyword. However, during army creation, you choose only ONE Faction Keyword so it is either one of those Chapter Keywords OR Adeptus Astartes.

So, i choose ADEPTUS ASTARTES as my faction keyword, then in the next step, select a SONS OF SANGUINIUS detachment.

so long as i meet the requirements of that detachment (requirements, which i might add, that we dont know yet. it could just be "no unit can have faction keywords other than ADEPTUS ASTARTES and/or BLOOD ANGEL."), then i would get THE RED THRIST detachment bonus. hell they may even have a detachment rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword", to solve any potential rules lawyering.

No?
You have to be faction adeptus astartes.
You explicitly do not have to have blood angel. No one gains blood angel keywords.
However, you can't have non-blood angel chapter keywords (space wolf, black templar, dark angel, etc...)

The article is clear about this. The detachments are open to all space marines (though some units can't be taken, like libriarians in righteous crusade detachments), but you can't mix chapter keywords.
Its a preview, so it doesn't include all the rules text, but this is really unambiguous:

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example

 AtoMaki wrote:

The Sons of Sanguinius Detachment is tied to the Blood Angels Faction tho while, say, the Gladius Task Force is specifically Adeptus Astartes. It definitely has some kind of relevance because otherwise, they wouldn't include Adeptus Astartes on Chapter-specific datasheets like how Thousand Sons don't have Chaos on their datasheets. Say, if they had a rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword" then stuff like Deathwind Terminators would also become Blood Angels (because they have the Adeptus Astartes Keyword) so having the Blood Angels Keyword wouldn't matter at all... so why is it there then?

I also think they will have some kind of rule for it (or maybe not) but I'm not really willing to take it for granted just because some dudes who have already made a mistake in the same preview said so.

well, based on what little we know:

This means that any Space Marine army can choose to use these Detachments should they see fit, provided they abide by their restrictions – no matter how much you love Librarians, you won’t be taking Space Marine psykers in a Righteous Crusaders Detachment. The main one you’ll need to worry about is that you can’t mix in units with a different Chapter’s keywords, so no non-Space Wolves named characters or Deathwing Terminators in the Champions of Russ Detachment, for example

this does rather strongly imply that you can add in chapter agnostic units like Intercessors, and are not limited to just whatever has blood angels keyword.


also, Tsons do have the CHAOS keyword on their datasheets.

Voss wrote:
The article is clear about this.

It was also pretty clear about Precision working on the Apothecary until they realized that it doesn't.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
also, Tsons do have the CHAOS keyword on their datasheets.

Nope, they don't. They have Chaos in the 'Other Keywords' section not as a Faction Keyword.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Voss wrote:
The article is clear about this.

It was also pretty clear about Precision working on the Apothecary until they realized that it doesn't.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
also, Tsons do have the CHAOS keyword on their datasheets.

Nope, they don't. They have Chaos in the 'Other Keywords' section not as a Faction Keyword.

....because CHAOS isnt a faction keyword in this edition. its not a valid faction keyword in 9th ed either, your point?

also, if your going to start playing rules games like this, you need to play with precision. you never specified that you meant they didnt have CHAOS as a faction keyword, just they didnt have the CHAOS keyword.....which they clearly do.

 AtoMaki wrote:

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
The Faction is Adeptus Astartes.

Dark Angels, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Black Templars, and Deathwatch are also Factions. They are listed in all relevant entries in addition to the Adeptus Astartes Faction Keyword. However, during army creation, you choose only ONE Faction Keyword so it is either one of those Chapter Keywords OR Adeptus Astartes.

So, i choose ADEPTUS ASTARTES as my faction keyword, then in the next step, select a SONS OF SANGUINIUS detachment.

so long as i meet the requirements of that detachment (requirements, which i might add, that we dont know yet. it could just be "no unit can have faction keywords other than ADEPTUS ASTARTES and/or BLOOD ANGEL."), then i would get THE RED THRIST detachment bonus. hell they may even have a detachment rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword", to solve any potential rules lawyering.

The Sons of Sanguinius Detachment is tied to the Blood Angels Faction tho while, say, the Gladius Task Force is specifically Adeptus Astartes. It definitely has some kind of relevance because otherwise, they wouldn't include Adeptus Astartes on Chapter-specific datasheets like how Thousand Sons don't have Chaos on their datasheets. Say, if they had a rule that says "all ADEPTUS ASTARTES units gain the BLOOD ANGEL keyword" then stuff like Deathwind Terminators would also become Blood Angels (because they have the Adeptus Astartes Keyword) so having the Blood Angels Keyword wouldn't matter at all... so why is it there then?

I also think they will have some kind of rule for it (or maybe not) but I'm not really willing to take it for granted just because some dudes who have already made a mistake in the same preview said so.

All the detachments are tied to the ADEPTUS ASTARTES faction. We know that’s the faction you have to pick as they all get the Oath of Moment faction rule which is tied to ADEPTUS ASTARTES

Presumably the chapter detachment rules just have a restriction that bans any units with another chapter’s keyword, like the Crusader one apparently has a restriction that bans Psykers.

So if you picked the Sons of Sanguinius detachments you couldn’t take any units with any faction keywords other than ADEPTUS ASTARTES or BLOOD ANGELS, but ADEPTUS ASTARTES is still your overall army faction keyword.

The Deathwatch datasheet is super badly done.

It would've been one thing for GW to do the Intercessor treatment to them. After all, different Marines might have different preferences for Bolter, so you could just stockpile those Stalkers, Storm Bolters, and other variants to one cool profile.
However, it's literally the same as the CSM one. Nothing says "Special Ammo", which has been a core component of making Deathwatch actually different to a regular Marine Chapter. That's the fault of GW not giving them a proper codex like Grey Knights though.

It's another thing to just eliminate the Shotgun entirely LOL

I am starting to see where the confusion comes from- the subfaction most suited to the detachment is listed in the title bar of the detachment ability.

And it is also true that Warcom has made mistakes in the past.

And a third cause of confusion is that we are pretty sure dexes are on the way for those five subfactions, at which point they MIGHT become factions rather than subfactions.

Based on what we have though, it's more reasonable to conclude that at launch, any marine subfaction can choose to use any of these detachments as long as they don't include subfaction specific models which don't match the detachment they've chosen. Blood Angel models can use the Sons of Russ Detachment, and even benefit from the rule... But you can't bring Dante or Sanguinary guard or a death company unit.

For most people, playing a Matched game, very few people will choose to do this. If you're playing Blood Angels, you probably have at least one BA chapter locked unit you want to bring, and the only detachments that will let you bring that unit are Sons of Sanguinus or Gladius... Which even then is one more choice than everyone else gets. If you DO choose to leave that unit at home, then the other four detachments previewed today are available.

BUT consider roster-based campaign play (Crusade or otherwise). You have many units in your roster, but you don't bring all of them to all battles. So you could have Dante or Death Company on your roster- solidifying your identity as Blood Angels, but if those units choose not to come to a given fight, the fact that they're on the roster doesn't prevent you from using any of the detachments.

Once again, the issue is just SM having choices that other factions don't have. Even if Warcom got it wrong and only Blood Angels keyworded units can be included in the Sons of Sanguinus detachment, those same BA are allowed to choose the Gladius. Still more choice (at launch) than anyone else.

PenitentJake wrote:

Once again, the issue is just SM having choices that other factions don't have.

Which wouldn't be an issue if there was a singular comprehensive Marine codex instead of splitting them for the sake of splitting them and expecting someone to pay more.

True, but damn that would be a big, heavy book.

PenitentJake wrote:
True, but damn that would be a big, heavy book.

Yeah, but like, I keep finding myself comparing rules-per-page from a 40k codex to something like a D&D or Pathfinder rulebook. For about the same price as a codex, you just get waaaaay more rules. So it's hard for me to *not* see the way marines are split up as a cash grab.

PenitentJake wrote:
At launch, if you play Loyalist Marines, there are six detachments you could choose from. If you play any other faction, there is one.

And I think this statement is looking at it completely backwards. That's the problem. Let me explain...

Marine players don't have 6 detachments to choose from.

Ultramarine, Imperial Fist, Iron Hands, Salamander, White Scar, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard and every other "Codex" and homebrew Marine Chapters players have 1 detachment to choose from.

Space Wolf players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Blood Angel players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Dark Angel players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Black Templar players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Deathwatch players have 1 detachment to choose from.

My point is that these are not 1 army with 6 options. They are distinct armies. They are all separate. The game treats them as such, especially given the unique units that each faction has (Deathwing, Blood Claws, Sanguinary Guard, etc.). And the overwhelming majority of Space Wolf players aren't going to look at these rules and decide that today his Woofs are actually Blood Angels, and that tomorrow they're Deathwatch Marines.

Now, they may be structured as detachments within a single faction (for reasons I simply cannot begin to fathom...), but I cannot get behind the idea that Marine players have 6 options when everyone else has 1 (by this line of thinking Chaos players would have 4 options, no? And we know that isn't the case!).

Now, the game probably should do everything as a single army and these Chapters as supplements, as it does now, because it means we won't have book after book after book of repeated datasheets, but from what limited information we have so far it appears that the Chapters are getting proper Codex releases and not supplements. I don't know why they're doing that, if they're doing that, but then again there are so many choices in 10th that make me scratch my head to the point of breaking the skin that I'm not surprised at the nonsense they're pulling.

Long and short of it is that it is unfair to lambaste them for giving Marine players 6 options because in reality they don't. All the currently previewed rules do is allow Space Wolf players to keep playing Space Wolves, and Dark Angel players to keep playing Dark Angels, unlike Imp Fist and Raven Guard players, who are stuck playing 'Counts As' with armies that match Iron Hands and Ultramarines until the Marine 'Dex hits and we get detachments that are more in line with those Chapters' styles of warfare.

PenitentJake wrote:
True, but damn that would be a big, heavy book.

It doesn't HAVE to be a heavy book is the thing.

Look at the curious case of Tactical Terminators, Assault Terminators, Relic Terminators, Deathwing Terminators, and Wolf Guard Terminators.

Is there actually a good reason we would need five entries? Isn't it just more reasonable that Terminators start Storm Bolter + Power Weapon standard, then upgrades, and we come to the realization that Rule of 3 is stupid as implemented due to scaling issues?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
At launch, if you play Loyalist Marines, there are six detachments you could choose from. If you play any other faction, there is one.

And I think this statement is looking at it completely backwards. That's the problem.

Marine players don't have 6 detachments to choose from.

Ultramarine, Imperial Fist, Iron Hands, Salamander, White Scar, Crimson Fists, Raven Guard and every other "Codex" and homebrew Marine Chapters players have 1 detachment to choose from.

Space Wolf players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Blood Angel players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Dark Angel players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Black Templar players have 1 detachment to choose from.
Deathwatch players have 1 detachment to choose from.

My point is that these are not 1 army with 6 options. They are distinct armies. They are all separate. The game treats them as such.

Now, they may be structured as detachments within a single faction (for reasons I simply cannot begin to fathom...), but I cannot get behind the idea that Marine players have 6 options when everyone else has 1 (by this line of thinking Chaos players would have 4 options, no? And know that isn't the case!).

Now, the game probably should do everything as a single army and these Chapters are supplements, as it does not, because it means we won't have book after book after book of repeated datasheets, but from what limited information we have so far it appears that the Chapters are getting proper Codex releases and not supplements. I don't know why they're doing that, if they're doing that, but then again there are so many choices in 10th that make me scratch my head to the point of breaking the skin that I'm not surprised at the nonsense they're pulling.

Long and short of it is that it is unfair to lambaste them for giving Marine players 6 options because in reality they don't. All the currently previewed rules is allow Space Wolf players to keep playing Space Wolves, and Dark Angel players to keep playing Dark Angels, unlike Imp Fist and Raven Guard players, who are stuck playing 'Counts As' with armies that match Iron Hands and Ultramarines until the Marine 'Dex hits and we get detachments that a more in line with those Chapters' styles of warfare.

If I have a squad of Tactical Marines, two Intercessor Squads, a Terminator Captain and an Assault Terminator Squad to go with him, and a Land Raider, which of the Marine Detachments can I not take?

Now, what if I have a squad of Poxwalkers, two squads of Plague Marines, a Lord of Contagion and a Blightlord Terminator squad to go with him, and a Land Raider, which Chaos Detachments can I not take?

 JNAProductions wrote:
If I have a squad of Tactical Marines, two Intercessor Squads, a Terminator Captain and an Assault Terminator Squad to go with him, and a Land Raider, which of the Marine Detachments can I not take?

Now, what if I have a squad of Poxwalkers, two squads of Plague Marines, a Lord of Contagion and a Blightlord Terminator squad to go with him, and a Land Raider, which Chaos Detachments can I not take?

I don't know if you're just wilfully misinterpreting what I'm saying or genuinely don't understand the point I'm making.