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99% odds that it's a mistake given that the Death Guard one does have ports. It's not the only error in these cards (KSons defiler twin las for example).

 Arachnofiend wrote:
99% odds that it's a mistake given that the Death Guard one does have ports. It's not the only error in these cards (KSons defiler twin las for example).

Didn't notice that on my first pass, good call! Str9 instead of Str12 is a HUGE loss.
Edit *Also, World Eater Rhino doesn't have the ports either... I sure hope it's not a DG only thing. That would be bad.

Hopefully it's a typo on Firing Ports. Would also be nice if the Defiler's Reaper Autocannon was a typo and its meant to be a regular autocannon as well but that may be an impossible dream

crazysaneman wrote:
So... I noticed Chaos Rhinos and Thousand Sons Rhinos do not have firing points. Do you think that's a mistake, or intentional? Seems really stupid to me to give something that basic to Imperium units but not Chaos.

Probably intentional because they're terrified of CSM being more fun to play than Astartes.

I have taken a look through the Death Guard Index and I have opinions:

Mostly it is pretty weak sauce to okish. A few standouts but mostly meh.

The army rule is ok but with the greater toughness of models it is of less value now

The detachment rule feels really bad as I am likely to leave models on the objectives I want to control. It could be useful in the late game but I will need some games to really get the feel for it.

Ferric Blight is ok but to get the upgrade you need to be in aura range of an objective marker and get a crit when most upgraded strats just need one condition which lessens it.

Disgustingly resilient costs two CP that only works in the fight phase now and will likely get nerfed later.

For the enhancements - Living Plague is mid but Deadly Pathogens feels like the best

The Daemon Princes can only take the spewer and has no pic which makes me think it may be getting a new model in the future. The on foot one is better defensively and the winged one offensively so it looks like the winged one is better but points will decide.

Typhus is nice but for some reason he can move 5" instead of the 4 the other terms get.

The Lord of V is nice but I don't like him having half the shots now. Master of destruction is good for his unit but useless on him and blight bombard is ok but limited as their really isn't a lot of blast, it is mostly for the crawler.

The Lord of C is also good in melee and looks better in the Blightlord Terms. My problem is that they removed the wargear option for the manreaper and big grenade and there isn't a separate unit for that model anymore meaning it can't be played.

The sorcerer in term armor has all the abilities I want for the Malignant Plaguecaster.

The plague marines got hosed. What do you do for the model with two knifes or the champion with fist and blade or the sigil of decay?

Cultists should be OC2

Poxwalkers also got screwed. lost WS can be broken in morale, OC1, though a better FNP now.

The Foul Blightspawn is really good but points will make or break it.

The Biologus Putrifier has the grenades plague marines should also have (though stronger), its pistol doesn't have lethal hits for some reason, but it's Foul Infusion ability make lethal hits actually worth it...

The Tallyman and surgeon are both good but can only jion plague marines making them limited in utility.

The blightlords make me sad. Slow and fairly weak both in range and melee.

The Deathshroud lost their chimes but their weapons and abilities are good.

I like the abilities of the helbrute.

The Myphitic Blight-hulers feel like the big winners of the index. good shooting, fast and tough.

The Foetid Bloat-drone is also good, the Heavy blight launcher is better, it keeps the two spitters and the fleshmower is still great and it has a great ability. Another big winner.

The Plagueburst Crawler feels weaker now. The Entropy cannons lost range and are weaker then Lascannons now.

I love how they are trying to act like the Icon bearer is now a character model now and not just another plague marine.

Also they lost the possessed for some reason.

 KingGarland wrote:
I have taken a look through the Death Guard Index and I have opinions:
Also they lost the possessed for some reason.

There isn't a death guard possessed kit. It might suggest one is coming, or more likely Stinky Foetid Seven-Bound.

Dudeface wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:
I have taken a look through the Death Guard Index and I have opinions:
Also they lost the possessed for some reason.

There isn't a death guard possessed kit. It might suggest one is coming, or more likely Stinky Foetid Seven-Bound.

There was the regular possessed kit that they could use until now but you are right that they will likely be coming out with a army unique version in the future.

Know I could easily google this but when will all the free rules be available to try a basic game with?

Dai wrote:
Know I could easily google this but when will all the free rules be available to try a basic game with?

We have all but scenarios and points which comes out in friday.

You could do fairly close by using the basic scenario in free rules and 9e points. While there's no doubt small changes here and there the overall size of army doesn't seem to alter much so roughly 1950 pts or so varied force plus say 2 enchantments(since we don't know points for those yet) could get you reasonably close to try it if you are really, really, REALLY impatient

 KingGarland wrote:

Typhus is nice but for some reason he can move 5" instead of the 4 the other terms get.

This is fairly common - Belial, Strikemaster, Generic Captain in Terminator Armor, Lysander, strangely Gravis chracters appear to have gone back to 6", but Tor PunchFace is still 5"

Cultists should be OC2

I suspect most "chaff" level "troops" - cultists, poxwalkers, Guard squads, little bugs, etc will be OC1

I love how they are trying to act like the Icon bearer is now a character model now and not just another plague marine.

That comes and goes from edition to edition. Figure the icon bearer is the "company ancient" and its been Regular Dude to Almost-HQ character over the years.

Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

Hecate wrote:
Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

That's what I understand so far.

Hecate wrote:
Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

I haven't seen anything that suggests OC lowers based on wounds lost. I'm curious why you'd think this would be a thing that happens.

Hecate wrote:
Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

Yes, my understanding is its calculated on a per model basis, regardless of how many wounds it has left.

crazysaneman wrote:
So... I noticed Chaos Rhinos and Thousand Sons Rhinos do not have firing points. Do you think that's a mistake, or intentional? Seems really stupid to me to give something that basic to Imperium units but not Chaos.

I'm pretty sure it's an oversight. Most reasonable players would let you use the firing points.

Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

 Canadian 5th wrote:

Hecate wrote:
Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

I haven't seen anything that suggests OC lowers based on wounds lost. I'm curious why you'd think this would be a thing that happens.

Just because certain things were triggered by half wounds/starting strength. Like battleshock. Or in 9th where big models' profiles degraded at half wounds.

It wasn't that I thought OC *would* be halved. It was just a random thought that occurred to me, and I wasn't 100% on the answer. Figured it's better to ask now, rather than during my first game.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

Hollow bones?

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

Makes some sense, you would want less heavy plating to be able to fly. At least that is what I thought when I saw the hive tyrant had that difference.

Presumably the Toughness difference is deliberate to make the footprice a tanky boy and the wingprince a fightyboy.

It's one of the few things which I don't detest about the index, given that the default has always been to take wings since forever because they've always been so good.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

And neither can hide, so both will be dead by turn 2.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

Foot version being harder to kill been a thing before as weil. Stops wings just being superior choice.

Ok, I'm glad there's at least a precedence for this in the Tyranids Index; near zero chance it's a typo or error.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lord Clinto wrote:
Wtf, the two Heretic Daemon Princes have different Toughness characteristic...

On foot has a T10; Winged has a T9.

And neither can hide, so both will be dead by turn 2.

Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

Lucky thing i don"t live in magical fantasy land where you kill units by snapping fingers.

tneva82 wrote:
Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

1+?

And who said anything about snapping fingers? It's a model that cannot hide, and will be wounded on 3's by most anti-tank things. Plus things like Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds exist. The poor DP's toast second he shows his ugly little mug.

And it's going to be hard to hide this out of LOS, when all you need to do is see one micron of the tip of a claw on his wing to be able to shoot him.

They snuck the Chaos Knights pdf online: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/5I1cNt3t71dfd3jh.pdf

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

1+?

And who said anything about snapping fingers? It's a model that cannot hide, and will be wounded on 3's by most anti-tank things. Plus things like Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds exist. The poor DP's toast second he shows his ugly little mug.

And it's going to be hard to hide this out of LOS, when all you need to do is see one micron of the tip of a claw on his wing to be able to shoot him.

effective 1+ against weapons that can easily threaten him (aka : weapons that have AP)

Deathwatch got edited haha.

Oh, did they edit the Deathwatch PDF and not make an announcement?

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
Oh, did they edit the Deathwatch PDF and not make an announcement?

It was mentioned in today's article: "Note: There’s also a very slight update to the Deathwatch datasheets posted earlier this week. After field tests, our resident tech-magos deemed Hellfire Rounds to be a little too dangerous on certain units, so that Stratagem has been tweaked. It now does not affect weapons with the Devastating Wounds rule. You can download the updated Index here."

It does show a minor issue with the datasheets - they don't seem to have a date or version number indicated anywhere, so it's not obvious when someone is using the current version.