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The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

Ah I see thanks, today's article wasn't loading for me (I think people in some countries had a similar issue with Chaos yesterday) so I had to take a direct link to see the latest indexes.

Two Marbos engaging in an infinite running pistol duel until one dies makes me think of a certain meme.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/06/14/free-imperium-index-cards-reclaim-the-galaxy-with-humanitys-finest/

Wtf is this:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/riFjIh9OeKg6AbLZ.pdf

That's not a glass canon army but a fething glass army who needs to jump through several hoops for just a bit of canon, and they were anyways already slower than Eldar(actual glass canon army that also pretty much has MD) but now most of the few units with some speed are just bad on top, either Sisters just got turned into a Horde army and became dirt cheap, or Matt Ward must be back for real this time.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

Hecate wrote:
Random question: Does OC lower if you're below half wounds?

Like, a model with 8 wounds and 4 OC. If it drops to 4 wounds, does it drop to 2 OC?

I looked in the basic rules, and it doesn't say anything about this that I could find. So I'm guessing it'd still have 4 OC even on 1 wound in that example.

Sound right?

Yes, my understanding is its calculated on a per model basis, regardless of how many wounds it has left.

Looks like it may change based on the data sheets. I noticed that a Chaos Knight has a rule that loses half it's OC if it has between 1-8 wounds left, think it started with 24.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

1+?

And who said anything about snapping fingers? It's a model that cannot hide, and will be wounded on 3's by most anti-tank things. Plus things like Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds exist. The poor DP's toast second he shows his ugly little mug.

And it's going to be hard to hide this out of LOS, when all you need to do is see one micron of the tip of a claw on his wing to be able to shoot him.

Well in real world we have this thing caljed "terrarn".

I recommend putting some up.

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

1+?

And who said anything about snapping fingers? It's a model that cannot hide, and will be wounded on 3's by most anti-tank things. Plus things like Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds exist. The poor DP's toast second he shows his ugly little mug.

And it's going to be hard to hide this out of LOS, when all you need to do is see one micron of the tip of a claw on his wing to be able to shoot him.

Well in real world we have this thing caljed "terrarn".

I recommend putting some up.

I'm having some trouble finding terrain suited to hiding such a model on the gw site, which kit would you recommend?

shortymcnostrill wrote:

I'm having some trouble finding terrain suited to hiding such a model on the gw site, which kit would you recommend?

you don't need to hide it completely, just a little bit to give it cover.

I'm actually a little excited to see that the walls between Scions and the rest of the AM codex are mostly coming down. Looks like Scions can ride in Chimeras and Valkyries now, and you can freely mix Regiment and Tempestus units without issue. The only restriction I see is that only Tempestus stuff can ride in Taurox Primes.

With the aircraft restriction seemingly gone, I'm thinking a naval QRF might be back on the table- VBSS teams using Scion rules, transported by Valkyries, Chimeras, and Taurox Primes. Maybe back them up with some press-ganged naval ratings (Infantry), labor Ogryns (Bullgryns), and a Techpriest with some servitors.

shortymcnostrill wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Hide out of los and then 1+/4++ keeps decent enough save unless opponent uses silly resouces.

1+?

And who said anything about snapping fingers? It's a model that cannot hide, and will be wounded on 3's by most anti-tank things. Plus things like Lethal Hits and Devastating Wounds exist. The poor DP's toast second he shows his ugly little mug.

And it's going to be hard to hide this out of LOS, when all you need to do is see one micron of the tip of a claw on his wing to be able to shoot him.

Well in real world we have this thing caljed "terrarn".

I recommend putting some up.

I'm having some trouble finding terrain suited to hiding such a model on the gw site, which kit would you recommend?

Any ruin blocks los completelv. Even Magnus.

However to get save you don't need complete hidden. I'm going to give you real cheap terrain to put to get save boost.

Rocks.

Literally. Just go outside, pick some decent rocks. Put on board. As long as you are even partially hidden(including base) +1 to armour save.

And if you insist on gw terrain anythrng that is bigger than 0mm
x 0mm x 0mm between you and enemy is enough.

tneva82 wrote:
Well in real world we have this thing caljed "terrarn".

Didn't really read what I said, did you?

 catbarf wrote:
I'm actually a little excited to see that the walls between Scions and the rest of the AM codex are mostly coming down. Looks like Scions can ride in Chimeras and Valkyries now, and you can freely mix Regiment and Tempestus units without issue. The only restriction I see is that only Tempestus stuff can ride in Taurox Primes.

With the aircraft restriction seemingly gone, I'm thinking a naval QRF might be back on the table- VBSS teams using Scion rules, transported by Valkyries, Chimeras, and Taurox Primes. Maybe back them up with some press-ganged naval ratings (Infantry), labor Ogryns (Bullgryns), and a Techpriest with some servitors.

I think it's mostly an unintended result of their release model: to roll out substantial sub-factions of existing lines, these get their own 'minidex' (e.g. the halves of the Mechanicus army, Scions, Harlequins, Vanguard Primaris and so on), to be later rolled back into the main codex and made to integrate into the faction more seamlessly. I guess with the next codexes to come that can be avoided, as everything new will also come at the same time as the 10th 'main' codex.

 Gert wrote:
The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

And then one person, whose school teaches german points out his tyranid rules in german, and the other person who has the english version calls him a cheater. lol

Personally (other than losing access to NFDHammers) I'm really pleased with how the Grey Knights Index fared.

Custodes came out fine too, assuming you disregard the previously mentioned Axe nerf. Though why can't the Custodes Land Raider have a Multi-melta?

Karol wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

And then one person, whose school teaches german points out his tyranid rules in german, and the other person who has the english version calls him a cheater. lol

Our group still makes fun of that one guy for trying to use the rules from a Spanish White Dwarf 25 years ago.
Just as a fun fact - the German version of 4th edition's ork codex had a total of 46 translation errors with impact on how rules.
Misprints are usually obvious and anyone who played past editions should know not to trust any GW translations.

 Jidmah wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

And then one person, whose school teaches german points out his tyranid rules in german, and the other person who has the english version calls him a cheater. lol

Our group still makes fun of that one guy for trying to use the rules from a Spanish White Dwarf 25 years ago.
Just as a fun fact - the German version of 4th edition's ork codex had a total of 46 translation errors with impact on how rules.
Misprints are usually obvious and anyone who played past editions should know not to trust any GW translations.

have here somewhere two copies of the last Bretonnia army book, both in English, one printed in the UK, one printed in China, idential covers etc, only the small print on the back where they differ

oh yes and the text of a few rules...

Karol wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

And then one person, whose school teaches german points out his tyranid rules in german, and the other person who has the english version calls him a cheater. lol

just default to english being the official version, it's not rocket science -.-

The more I see of 10th, i wonder if I should make a 9th-10th hybrid. 10th core rules, Psychic phase rolled into command phase or otherwise consolidated, morale is the first half of 9ths test, but with the 10th battleshock. A "hand
of stratagems to cut down on mental load. Just rough ideas but these indexes have all been very off-putting. The only one i've liked is the GSC because the only random, pointless negative change is the leader pistol thing. I'd rather deal with the killiness of 9th and all it's shenanigans than what 10th is shaping up to be. There's good ideas here, buried underneath heaps of strange, pointless, or badly-implemented changes.

Xenos indexes are up.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/warhammer-40000/

Its worse than I thought for drukhari. Jesus I thought theres no way they couldn't feth them up this bad even if they tried. Wrong. Thats the last of my armies revealed. I'll be sitting this edition out. L8r

dominuschao wrote:
Xenos indexes are up.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-us/warhammer-40000/

Its worse than I thought for drukhari. Jesus I thought theres no way they couldn't feth them up this bad even if they tried. Wrong. Thats the last of my armies revealed. I'll be sitting this edition out. L8r

Enjoy the break, it might be refreshing and save you a lot of anger, it can be a wise choice sometimes even if it sucks.

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

Why? It's actually a very grounded and mature post where they've realised they dislike it so choose not to participate in something they won't enjoy. They can continue to play older versions if they wish and their friends agree.

You can't please everyone with everything a nd if you're going to be made upset/angry by it, getting out is a valid choice.

Dudeface wrote:
Why?

Because it comes across as being kinda gakky.

If you respected his decision to walk away, then you perhaps should have said that. Instead, your post come across as being one step away from a gleeful "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Why?

Because it comes across as being kinda gakky.

If you respected his decision to walk away, then you perhaps should have said that. Instead, your post come across as being one step away from a gleeful "Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!".

Meh maybe, for once it was someone taking a calming proactive way forwards, instead of loitering around being angry for years on end, it was quite refreshing and thought a cheerier tone would be appreciated. No snark intended.

Edit: padded it out for clarity.

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

You can't please everyone with everything

You'd have a point if we didn't have people defending objectively bad choices. Yes, there's objectively bad rules.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
The more I see of 10th, i wonder if I should make a 9th-10th hybrid. 10th core rules, Psychic phase rolled into command phase or otherwise consolidated, morale is the first half of 9ths test, but with the 10th battleshock. A "hand
of stratagems to cut down on mental load. Just rough ideas but these indexes have all been very off-putting. The only one i've liked is the GSC because the only random, pointless negative change is the leader pistol thing. I'd rather deal with the killiness of 9th and all it's shenanigans than what 10th is shaping up to be. There's good ideas here, buried underneath heaps of strange, pointless, or badly-implemented changes.

Making a Morale house rule for 9th would be really easy, any more than that and I'd be afraid of messing up more than you are fixing, cutting Stratagems down to 6 probably wouldn't change too much either, the niche once in a blue moon gotchas and noob traps would just get removed from the game. I thought all the faction and sub-faction rules in 9th were too much, but if you're in a group that doesn't change what armies are played too much that wouldn't be a problem. The command phase is more useless than the psychic phase was, I don't get the incentive of doing away with it unless you hate psychic tests. I don't really care too much myself since I barely play anything other than Necrons, I really hope Wyldhunt is happy though, he's been annoyed with psychic tests for fluff reasons for a while and I suppose fairness/randomness concerns are fair-ish, although I think randomness is most at home in a system representing interactions with the warp. Sadly I saw a few others not being happy with the psychic changes. 10th was never going to make everyone happy, I personally hate the core rules and love my Necrons index, the opposite issue of 9th. 10th took a major step back with index layouts though, welp this is the same company that designed the 7th edition codex layouts with the Decurion -> Datacards -> Formations that go in Decurion.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

You can't please everyone with everything

You'd have a point if we didn't have people defending objectively bad choices. Yes, there's objectively bad rules.

Well, that's subjective, the rules are also subjectively bad to you in isolation, others may disagree, others may not like some rules but tolerate or not be bothered by them as part of the greater whole. Some dud rules doesn't mean there's nothing there for people to enjoy and have a positive time.

You exist purely in absolutes, often confined to your own definitions on things that you apply to others. It might not seem obvious, but you're part of the example of "can't please everyone with everything". Even then you do keep coming back so you obviously enjoy something in this game.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

You can't please everyone with everything

You'd have a point if we didn't have people defending objectively bad choices. Yes, there's objectively bad rules.

Well, that's subjective, the rules are also subjectively bad to you in isolation, others may disagree, others may not like some rules but tolerate or not be bothered by them as part of the greater whole. Some dud rules doesn't mean there's nothing there for people to enjoy and have a positive time.

You exist purely in absolutes, often confined to your own definitions on things that you apply to others. It might not seem obvious, but you're part of the example of "can't please everyone with everything". Even then you do keep coming back so you obviously enjoy something in this game.

I sadly have to agree, the very same choices that cratered my expectations for 10th only made other players happier because playing the game is too hard, they think it better the game plays itself. I personally think they should play idle games and let 40k have as much player agency as possible, only leaving things up to dice when there is a conflict between your desire and your opponent's desire (your opponent wants his Rhino to survive and you want it to die so you have to roll to see whether it survives or dies), rolling to see whether you get your VP for completing a mission and not getting to decide whether you move into base contact is silly.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Enjoy the break.

You don't have to be so flippant when people see their armies going through the ringer.

i honestly wanted to feel spitefull because some of these now complaining were just fine when R&H got legended, and yet i don't because 40k seems to just shrink and become sanitised as a game system...basically it doesn't feel nor look like 40k anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

 Gert wrote:
The magic of the internet means that anyone at any time can check to see if their opponent is cheating using the downloadable index rules.

And then one person, whose school teaches german points out his tyranid rules in german, and the other person who has the english version calls him a cheater. lol

just default to english being the official version, it's not rocket science -.-

it's also not rocket science to have rules of a game translated into multiple languages. And yet here we are with GW failing even internally producing multiple english rules variants in 30 k ...

 vict0988 wrote:
they think it better the game plays itself

You think 10th plays itself? That's a hot take...