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From were came the "based on Epic40k" rumor?

The only rumor of that kind I heared is that "based on E:A" rumor from faeit.

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, that trailer makes me think more of an Apocalypse set of rules for Horus Heresy than the return of Epic. Meaning still using the 32mm miniature range, just with rules for playing big battles faster.

I don't see the reason to still use the same logo rather than their separate game logo like their other games if it was meant to be a teaser for Epic 6mm/8mm new range.

Totally agree.

Think there is an awful lot of speculation, and people are running with it.

A lot of folks are going to be quite disappointed when it turns out it is just a version of Apocalypse for Horus Heresy to enable large games.

As HH is based heavily on 7th edition 40k, I think GW are just going to slightly adjust the Apocalypse rules from 7th and put a lot of HH photos and art in it , and then call it done.

2 years after the HH release we get plastic Assault Marines, GW have 10 game systems currently... yet people on here seem to think that GW can do a 6-8mm game system.

Sorry people, but it isn't going to happen.

Gw Epic is dead... fan driven Epic lives on!

RazorEdge wrote:
From were came the "based on Epic40k" rumor?

The only rumor of that kind I heared is that "based on E:A" rumor from faeit.

I don't think any reliable (and at this point that likely means Valrak?) source mentioned which of the old systems is being used as a base, or if it's a completely new concoction.

It's mostly "some dude on Facebook" type of hearsay in regards to actual rules.

 Tastyfish wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, that trailer makes me think more of an Apocalypse set of rules for Horus Heresy than the return of Epic. Meaning still using the 32mm miniature range, just with rules for playing big battles faster.

I don't see the reason to still use the same logo rather than their separate game logo like their other games if it was meant to be a teaser for Epic 6mm/8mm new range.

Titanicus seems to occasionally come under the Heresy banner.

If they want to make pretense of secrecy can't exactly reveal banner...

"here's our mystery project. We won't tell what it is but here's it's banner that reads epic: horus heresy. Good luck figuring out what it might be! Real tough one!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, that trailer makes me think more of an Apocalypse set of rules for Horus Heresy than the return of Epic. Meaning still using the 32mm miniature range, just with rules for playing big battles faster.

I don't see the reason to still use the same logo rather than their separate game logo like their other games if it was meant to be a teaser for Epic 6mm/8mm new range.

Totally agree.

Think there is an awful lot of speculation, and people are running with it.

A lot of folks are going to be quite disappointed when it turns out it is just a version of Apocalypse for Horus Heresy to enable large games.

As HH is based heavily on 7th edition 40k, I think GW are just going to slightly adjust the Apocalypse rules from 7th and put a lot of HH photos and art in it , and then call it done.

2 years after the HH release we get plastic Assault Marines, GW have 10 game systems currently... yet people on here seem to think that GW can do a 6-8mm game system.

Sorry people, but it isn't going to happen.

Gw Epic is dead... fan driven Epic lives on!

It wouldn't be war in new scale though.

Lots of denial here. Guess for you what walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is a dog

Gw is practically shouting it's epic. Gw isn't doing hints subtly.

How sure you are it's not epic? Care to make a bet? 100 bucks says it's epic

Well I want to belive!

tneva82 wrote:

Gw is practically shouting it's epic. Gw isn't doing hints subtly.

How sure you are it's not epic? Care to make a bet? 100 bucks says it's epic

GW shouts nothing, they just put out a trailer with no miniature and no other logo than Horus Heresy.

But yes, this thread is solely about believing and betting. There's absolutely nothing else than rumors, the same we keep having every year from the same people who'll eventually be right one day.

Better to wait for more info from Warhammer Community, but so far, I'm still not betting on Epic's return this year. Safer to bet for a new rule expansion for Horus Heresy using the same range, just with a Apocalypse-sized scale inviting people to buy more of existing kits rather than investing in a totally new range from scratch...that may not sell that much in the end.

Sarouan wrote:

Better to wait for more info from Warhammer Community, but so far, I'm still not betting on Epic's return this year.

There is a difference between

its Epic.
and
its coming out this year.

Voss wrote:
There is a difference between

its Epic.
and
its coming out this year.

Yeah, but let's be honest : that's the title of this thread from the beginning.

Sarouan wrote:

Voss wrote:
There is a difference between

its Epic.
and
its coming out this year.

Yeah, but let's be honest : that's the title of this thread from the beginning.

Yep. One person decided to title the thread as a question about the possibility of a release this year.
That's not a rumor or evidence. Just a quirk of posting style.

The video snippet GW posted heavily leans toward Epic but doesn't give even a hint of a date. Understandably so, given that they're currently gearing up for the primary system release.


I'd also point out that Heresy Apocalypse makes no sense at the current stage. New edition was less than a year ago. They're still trying to get through the basics, let alone other armies. Apocalypse type rules presume widespread large collections.

tneva82 wrote:

 Tastyfish wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, that trailer makes me think more of an Apocalypse set of rules for Horus Heresy than the return of Epic. Meaning still using the 32mm miniature range, just with rules for playing big battles faster.

I don't see the reason to still use the same logo rather than their separate game logo like their other games if it was meant to be a teaser for Epic 6mm/8mm new range.

Titanicus seems to occasionally come under the Heresy banner.

If they want to make pretense of secrecy can't exactly reveal banner...

"here's our mystery project. We won't tell what it is but here's it's banner that reads epic: horus heresy. Good luck figuring out what it might be! Real tough one!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 stonehorse wrote:

Sarouan wrote:
To be honest, that trailer makes me think more of an Apocalypse set of rules for Horus Heresy than the return of Epic. Meaning still using the 32mm miniature range, just with rules for playing big battles faster.

I don't see the reason to still use the same logo rather than their separate game logo like their other games if it was meant to be a teaser for Epic 6mm/8mm new range.

Totally agree.

Think there is an awful lot of speculation, and people are running with it.

A lot of folks are going to be quite disappointed when it turns out it is just a version of Apocalypse for Horus Heresy to enable large games.

As HH is based heavily on 7th edition 40k, I think GW are just going to slightly adjust the Apocalypse rules from 7th and put a lot of HH photos and art in it , and then call it done.

2 years after the HH release we get plastic Assault Marines, GW have 10 game systems currently... yet people on here seem to think that GW can do a 6-8mm game system.

Sorry people, but it isn't going to happen.

Gw Epic is dead... fan driven Epic lives on!

It wouldn't be war in new scale though.

Lots of denial here. Guess for you what walks like a duck and quacks like a duck is a dog

Gw is practically shouting it's epic. Gw isn't doing hints subtly.

How sure you are it's not epic? Care to make a bet? 100 bucks says it's epic

Scale can mean a lot of things when it comes to miniature gaming. Scale of the models, Scale of the conflict, etc. So going up to a larger scale conflict is war in a new scale.

You call it denial, I'll call it being clear headed, and going by what we know... which is very little.

GW aren't shouting anything, a short video that has no miniatures, just a few icons on Squares & Rectangles moving around a map with a few words of text, and a bit of background mechanical noise.

From that people are going full hog that this is Epic, and that GW are shouting ot loud and clear that it is Epic.

I just worry that people are getting fully invested in the hype train that is being generated, and are going to be utterly gutted when ot turns out to be something completely different. I honestly think we need to cool our jets and not let our hopes cloud our judgement.

Yes I want Epic back... but that doesn't mean to say that GW are going to add it to their already crowded catalogue.

They have 10 game systems, which each has a sizable catalogue, they are adding an 11th soon (Warhammer The Old World), which is going to see their product catalogue increase by a large amount.

They already have supply issues with the 10 game systems they have, so they are going to be under a lot of pressure. Epic burnt GW in the past, so jumping back into 6-8mm mass conflict would be seen as a very risky endeavour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Sarouan wrote:

Voss wrote:
There is a difference between

its Epic.
and
its coming out this year.

Yeah, but let's be honest : that's the title of this thread from the beginning.

Yep. One person decided to title the thread as a question about the possibility of a release this year.
That's not a rumor or evidence. Just a quirk of posting style.

The video snippet GW posted heavily leans toward Epic but doesn't give even a hint of a date. Understandably so, given that they're currently gearing up for the primary system release.


I'd also point out that Heresy Apocalypse makes no sense at the current stage. New edition was less than a year ago. They're still trying to get through the basics, let alone other armies. Apocalypse type rules presume widespread large collections.

Horus Heresy has a very loyal and devoted fan base since 7th edition. So people have large collections. Apocalypse wouldn't require much investment from GW, a book, a few new templates and tokens, maybe some bundle deals... and that is about it.

Where as Epic would be a mammoth investment!

RazorEdge wrote:
From were came the "based on Epic40k" rumor?

The only rumor of that kind I heared is that "based on E:A" rumor from faeit.

As HMV said it was 'some dude on Facebook' (haha) but someone who claimed they had an inside source - also rumour was that they were a big fan of 2nd edition Space Marine (and so the new game will resemble that), not Epic40k.

Sarouan wrote:


Better to wait for more info from Warhammer Community, but so far, I'm still not betting on Epic's return this year. Safer to bet for a new rule expansion for Horus Heresy using the same range, just with a Apocalypse-sized scale inviting people to buy more of existing kits rather than investing in a totally new range from scratch...that may not sell that much in the end.

Bit confused on this one as Horus Heresy is apparently already designed for large scale games. I was interested in a force of 4 Armigers and a Knight, and I've been told that even that is too small for a game. LOL, a Knight army isn't enough dakka! Would you Adam & Eve it!

Heresy Apocalypse seems unlikely and given the total lack of interest or support the last Apocalypse game got would anyone bother to buy it?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Heresy Apocalypse seems unlikely and given the total lack of interest or support the last Apocalypse game got would anyone bother to buy it?

The last Apoc was basically Epic Armegeddon rules scaled up to 28mm sized models.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Heresy Apocalypse seems unlikely and given the total lack of interest or support the last Apocalypse game got would anyone bother to buy it?

The last Apoc was basically Epic Armegeddon rules scaled up to 28mm sized models.

Yeah but GW treated it as a throwaway game and thats what they did sadly

 Mr Morden wrote:


Yeah but GW treated it as a throwaway game and thats what they did sadly

Apocalypse for 40K seemed to be aimed at gaming clubs and events that would likely host vast scale games. For that very small niche of venues a limited run was all that was needed.

Just my take on it, mind.

There’s also the possibility that this is teasing a game with 8mm scale models that’s not “Epic” the game. When you say Epic, people think of Space Marine/Epic40k/EpicA etc, with rules for everything from infantry to titans and everything in between. Titanicus is a 8mm scale game but not “Epic”. This could be for example a tank game in 8mm scale. No infantry, no titans, purely focused on tank battles. It could be a board game with 8mm infantry as playing pieces. Lots of possibilities

MaxT wrote:
There’s also the possibility that this is teasing a game with 8mm scale models that’s not “Epic” the game. When you say Epic, people think of Space Marine/Epic40k/EpicA etc, with rules for everything from infantry to titans and everything in between. Titanicus is a 8mm scale game but not “Epic”. This could be for example a tank game in 8mm scale. No infantry, no titans, purely focused on tank battles. It could be a board game with 8mm infantry as playing pieces. Lots of possibilities

"Epic40K: Legion Commander" or something like that...

MaxT wrote:
There’s also the possibility that this is teasing a game with 8mm scale models that’s not “Epic” the game. When you say Epic, people think of Space Marine/Epic40k/EpicA etc, with rules for everything from infantry to titans and everything in between. Titanicus is a 8mm scale game but not “Epic”. This could be for example a tank game in 8mm scale. No infantry, no titans, purely focused on tank battles. It could be a board game with 8mm infantry as playing pieces. Lots of possibilities

Yeah, I think that's what the FB poster I mentioned was getting at. The designer said that they weren't working on a game called Epic. So it's possibly another stepping stone game with SM vehicles and/or infantry. From there, who knows what happens?

Also, note that AT and AI are not 8mm scale. Per the studio, they're 1/4 scale 30K/40K scale. Which should mean that the minis will be coming in noticeably larger than old Epic. I know the old Epic Rhinos and such I have on my AT bases are certainly not 1/4 of the length of current 30K and 40K Rhino models.

People are going to be so mad if it's not Epic...

Marines vs Mega Arachnids!!!

All joking aside, I could see Demon armies also being viable considering Blood Angels had their first chapter sized battle with them at Signus Prime.

MaxT wrote:
There’s also the possibility that this is teasing a game with 8mm scale models that’s not “Epic” the game. When you say Epic, people think of Space Marine/Epic40k/EpicA etc, with rules for everything from infantry to titans and everything in between. Titanicus is a 8mm scale game but not “Epic”. This could be for example a tank game in 8mm scale. No infantry, no titans, purely focused on tank battles. It could be a board game with 8mm infantry as playing pieces. Lots of possibilities

1. The teaser video showed an Icon with Titan Legion/Adeptus Titanicus logo prominently in the middle of the shot.
2. Since models for Aircraft and Titans in 'Epic scale' (lets not get bogged down on if that means 6mm or 8mm or whatever, it's roughly 1/4th of 40k scale) it would make not much sense to make a pure tank battle game. Literally the first thing people would ask for would be to include the Titanicus titans and Aeronautica flyers, and at that point you're making Epic, if you want to call it that or not.
3. If they picked a scale to not match the other two small-scale games deliberately, that would lead to much bad blood from the community. And yet another intermediate scale would of course be wasting your preexisting assets, aka the titans and planes.

It's funny that some of the most chilled places on the internet are the Epic FB groups, yet if you want to see an argument make a post about scale!

Even in the original game the scale for Epic was absolutely all over the place. Even the tiny original marines would struggle to fit in the Rhinos, and things like the Squiggoths and other Ork vehicles must be manned by snotlings. There was very little consistency. But, it kind of works, because you are dealing with a level of abstraction anyway, I don't think it ever looked silly on the tabletop.

Nowadays many of the proxy and 3D prints seem to settle on about 8mm for a marine and a bit smaller for an Ork or normal human, although a few of the 3D prints (and of course depending on what scale they are printed at) are pushing that a bit larger. I honestly think, as with historicals where it's very common to have minis from multiple manufacturers together and not completely matching scales, unless they are on the same base you don't notice it - I know though YMMV with that, and like with historicals, some collectors insist on one range for the exact uniformity.

As for bad blood from the community, unfortunately I don't think that has ever entered the equation when GW make decisions like this? They thought nothing of torpedoing the WHFB community by destroying the old world, and that was for an active/published game. I don't think they would care about upsetting a community, which by itself is smaller than either the BB or Necromunda communities were when those games were officially unsupported over a period of time. And I think the lure of adding loads of sculpted detail to tiny minis (as has happened with the 3D printing design community), will necessarily push up the scale - if I had to guess I would say a marine will probably be between 8-10mm, just looking at some of the printed stuff around now and the level of detail. I just hope its close enough that my classic GW stuff and Vanguard minis don't look completely ridiculous next to them.

They started deciding AT scale by producing tiny marines. I think it's safe to say these upcoming marines will be the same scale as AI and AT.

Its been the idea all along.

Vorian wrote:
They started deciding AT scale by producing tiny marines. I think it's safe to say these upcoming marines will be the same scale as AI and AT.

Its been the idea all along.

Funny enough, despite being touted as '6mm', old epic infantry like marines just about fit through e.g. doorways on the AT Warlord. In pracitce, the theoretical difference between these scales does not matter that much, mostly because, as Pacific already explained, original Epic scale was all over the place anyway, at least when comparing different troop types.

Yup, they're so small that its not going to be a huge difference - but I remember someone somewhere saying they were playing around looking for the right scale for AT and settled on the 1/4 40k size which resulted in an 8mm marine.

There's no need to worry about it not matching the AI/AT scale because it's been scaled with marines in mind from the start.

 Pacific wrote:
It's funny that some of the most chilled places on the internet are the Epic FB groups, yet if you want to see an argument make a post about scale!

Painting Epic minis is just a means to an end. My real hobby is informing people on those FB scale posts that '6mm' or '8mm' isn't actually a scale, its just a size.

And then sitting back and watching the threads explode for the next three days. (Honestly- I was still getting multiple pings from someone trying to argue with me after my single comment stating as such, days after the original event. )

Just to stir the pot, let us not forget we've already had our first 'Epic' sized infantry(ish) model.

The poor wee pilots in the Grot Bommer's krooz missuls.

(Stretching? Yep. )

 gorgon wrote:
The designer said that they weren't working on a game called Epic.

Those designers also would tell us a Game named "Warhammer 40.000" doesn't exist... or the Sun is blue...

The title of the video is "battle on a new scale". The icons in the video are the same as the old Epic battle reports in White Dwarf. I will be stunned if it's not Epic. They've done everything but spell it out for you...