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Orders are the key to the alt activation. If, as I’m not entirely safely assuming, they work as they did in 2nd.

There, they didn’t just dictate what the unit could do, but when it could do it.

Again I’d need to refresh memory, but I think it was Charge Moves, Advance Moves, First Fire, Advance Fire. With some (all?) First Fire having the option to Overwatch against enemy units as they moved.

That helped prevent alt activation being a cat and mouse game of “well I’ll just forgo my shooting to pull back out of sight” etc.

checking 1st ed

you dished out orders in secret - orders are revealed at the start of the move phase, with an option to reveal them in the sub phases

1. fall back moves
2. charge moves
3. advance moves

"first player" then moves all of thier units with the appropriate order, then the other player through each sub step

there is also a nice "no takey backsies" rule

could see it now being just alternating player by player with the order just dictating what you can do - as per AT

first fire was no movement, not even turning in place

Seems like we have First Fire, Advance, March(?), Charge and Fall Back for orders.

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

might be GW don't think that 40k and Epic has the same target group
or even thinks that they are going to catch the not so happy veterans of previous editions with Epic so the new people can start the game without the angry grognards in the back

 kodos wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

might be GW don't think that 40k and Epic has the same target group
or even thinks that they are going to catch the not so happy veterans of previous editions with Epic so the new people can start the game without the angry grognards in the back

Yeah remember GW does market research nowadays and this might be strategically positioned to catch the people who had no interest in 40k 10th. (for the various game-related groups I am in this is absolutely the case, with a little overlap between the two)

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Seems like we have First Fire, Advance, March(?), Charge and Fall Back for orders.

makes sense, depends how they use charge & march. at a guess both allow extra movement, one requires you to end in contact, the other disallows it and is meant as a redeployment maybe moving further

just add tokens, would be nice to have a sprue of plastic ones ala AT with objective markers etc on it.

the only swine being picking the colour for march?

first fire = red
charge = blue
fall back = yellow
advance = green
no order = sucks to be you
march??


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

might be GW don't think that 40k and Epic has the same target group
or even thinks that they are going to catch the not so happy veterans of previous editions with Epic so the new people can start the game without the angry grognards in the back

well they may see this as aimed at the HH crowd who have not had a big box release in the last few weeks

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

If TOW is releasing late this year as rumoured, that might be why. This way they can get TOW out by Christmas but still have a couple of months gap between the two systems.

I for one am burned out on new systems. As much as I love the idea of "Epic" I'm gonna have to see some stellar reviews of the gameplay if I am to invest (my mental capacity). If the rules are the usual GW "sorta kinda funcitonal if you squint a bit and don't care about balance" then it's gonna be a skip for me.

 judgedoug wrote:
Yeah remember GW does market research nowadays and this might be strategically positioned to catch the people who had no interest in 40k 10th. (for the various game-related groups I am in this is absolutely the case, with a little overlap between the two)

This sums up me. I loved Epic back in the day, and I’ve dabbled in 40K and Necromunda from time to time, but ultimately 28mm does nothing for me. I almost exclusively play Aeronautica and Titanicus, and while I wish this new edition had Xenos, I’m already in for 4 boxes.

I’ve been following the rumors for years about them bringing back Epic, merging Aeronautica and Titanicus etc, and I am very happy.

I never pulled the trigger for HH but always liked the tanks there, so might be I pull the trigger here, but not on the launch box but the tank box

 judgedoug wrote:

 kodos wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

might be GW don't think that 40k and Epic has the same target group
or even thinks that they are going to catch the not so happy veterans of previous editions with Epic so the new people can start the game without the angry grognards in the back

Yeah remember GW does market research nowadays and this might be strategically positioned to catch the people who had no interest in 40k 10th. (for the various game-related groups I am in this is absolutely the case, with a little overlap between the two)

and it feels very much like it, also from the rules preview as it ticks a lot of boxes of the "change this in 40k" rules

leopard wrote:
well they may see this as aimed at the HH crowd who have not had a big box release in the last few weeks

and HH in general aims at veterans who are not happy with the main game and were it is going

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

I guess you couldsay that the pace of releases is.... too fast.

*sunglasses*

MrHobbles wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Yeah remember GW does market research nowadays and this might be strategically positioned to catch the people who had no interest in 40k 10th. (for the various game-related groups I am in this is absolutely the case, with a little overlap between the two)

This sums up me. I loved Epic back in the day, and I’ve dabbled in 40K and Necromunda from time to time, but ultimately 28mm does nothing for me. I almost exclusively play Aeronautica and Titanicus, and while I wish this new edition had Xenos, I’m already in for 4 boxes.

I’ve been following the rumors for years about them bringing back Epic, merging Aeronautica and Titanicus etc, and I am very happy.

Same - not played 40k in years. Titanicus, Aeronautica along with Necromunda are my only GW games. I quit Heresy over a year back and have no interest in AoS or Old World. With the Titan Maniples, Knight Households and Airfleets I have, I'm looking forward to building up multiple Epic armies. Over time, I reckon we can expect to see the following army options:

- 18 Space Marine Legions + Shattered Legion & Blackshields
- Solar Auxilia
- Imperial Militia (hope they use the Death Korps and/or Vraks Renegades aesthetic for the models)
- Mechanicum
- Dark Mechanicum (with Daemon Engines)
- Legio Custodes
- Sisters of Silence
- Daemons of the Ruinstorm

At a pinch, a Stygies VIII campaign could be used to bring in Eldar, but most likely right at the end if at all.

My long hope is to be able to combine Space Marines, Dark Mechanicum and Daemons into a single force and re-create the below 2nd edition Epic army with modern models:

We may also see Squats/Votann within Imperial Army, lower chance as a force unto themselves.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
We may also see Squats/Votann within Imperial Army, lower chance as a force unto themselves.

Chances are slim for Squats but I guess there is the "oops all Squats" doctrine in Imperial Militia so they are at least in GW's mind

 zedmeister wrote:

MrHobbles wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Yeah remember GW does market research nowadays and this might be strategically positioned to catch the people who had no interest in 40k 10th. (for the various game-related groups I am in this is absolutely the case, with a little overlap between the two)

This sums up me. I loved Epic back in the day, and I’ve dabbled in 40K and Necromunda from time to time, but ultimately 28mm does nothing for me. I almost exclusively play Aeronautica and Titanicus, and while I wish this new edition had Xenos, I’m already in for 4 boxes.

I’ve been following the rumors for years about them bringing back Epic, merging Aeronautica and Titanicus etc, and I am very happy.

Same - not played 40k in years. Titanicus, Aeronautica along with Necromunda are my only GW games. I quit Heresy over a year back and have no interest in AoS or Old World. With the Titan Maniples, Knight Households and Airfleets I have, I'm looking forward to building up multiple Epic armies. Over time, I reckon we can expect to see the following army options:

- 18 Space Marine Legions + Shattered Legion & Blackshields
- Solar Auxilia
- Imperial Militia (hope they use the Death Korps and/or Vraks Renegades aesthetic for the models)
- Mechanicum
- Dark Mechanicum (with Daemon Engines)
- Legio Custodes
- Sisters of Silence
- Daemons of the Ruinstorm

At a pinch, a Stygies VIII campaign could be used to bring in Eldar, but most likely right at the end if at all.

My long hope is to be able to combine Space Marines, Dark Mechanicum and Daemons into a single force and re-create the below 2nd edition Epic army with modern models:

I think this will be my take on any of the new models. I've tried and tried, but never got the hang of the 'grim dark' painting style and not have it look like I was being purposely bad at painting overall. But my bright purple, pink, green, blue, red and yellow paint jobs don't look too terrible. I know they are presenting this new game with 'realistic' looking paint jobs for the HH. But I might just go full on old school and paint every thing in one bright colour.

I do hope we see daemons. If anything is missing from epic then proper warhammer looking daemons are it! Even if they have no plans to move this past 30k, I hope they do move towards having some chaos corruption add-ons and sprues of daemons. New daemon engines would be so good in this scale!

If anyone wants, I can dig out my old cards and point up that Mighty Chaos Army?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
If anyone wants, I can dig out my old cards and point up that Mighty Chaos Army?

I WANT. I VERY WANT.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/03/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-legions-imperialis/

ok, so looks like hidden orders (never really liked them, eww) alternating activations (practically a given), individual weapon profiles (...interesting). Titans getting taken out by a single turn of strafing aircraft is hopefully either hyperbole or only applies to smaller titans or a LOT of aircraft

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

Not really no. I think Epic Imperialis is not targeted to 40K players per se, its targeted towards HH fans and diehard Epic affectionados. I bet the volume of this launch box will be quite modest compared to something like Leviathan anyway.

I didn't have to spend a dime for getting into 10th edition, thanks to the rules being free, so I have plenty of hobby budget left for this box as well as for the KT21S3 launch box which will follow it in autumn. Until multipart plastic kit version of the Indomi termies is out, main 40K line will only get second hand sales from me

 zedmeister wrote:
Looking again, it's hard to pin down exactly, but seems like a Hybrid edition:

- Alt Activation - that's a given
- Hidden orders - 1st/2nd edition
- Terrain rules with roads being faster - 3rd edition
- Detachment and army building rules sound like 4th edition
- Weapon rules sound like 4th (Anti-Infantry, Anti-Tank, Macro Weapons)

Seems like a pretty good mix of systems, though I'd be happier with a stronger lean towards 2nd and all of those nice Titan Weapons!

Hidden orders and alternate activation sounds great though!

Charax wrote:

Titans getting taken out by a single turn of strafing aircraft is hopefully either hyperbole or only applies to smaller titans or a LOT of aircraft

Clearly it is a hint that the Tau are going to be showing up

I am not huge into the HH setting but I do adore the Solar Auxilia aesthetic (in particular the little combat fax machine on the command base) so can definitely see myself picking up some kits to go along with my existing Vraks Renegades as pseudo-stormtroopers. I am curious about the rules: seems like a lot of what I like best about Epic Armageddon will still be there and the hidden order tokens remind me a bit of the new Aeronatuica.

 tauist wrote:

Toofast wrote:
Is anyone else surprised at how quickly this is being launched after release of 10th edition? I was really expecting the rumored October release to be true. I won't even have time to get all my new additions to my 40k army painted before that game goes on the shelf so I can learn new Epic.

Not really no. I think Epic Imperialis is not targeted to 40K players per se, its targeted towards HH fans and diehard Epic affectionados. I bet the volume of this launch box will be quite modest compared to something like Leviathan anyway.

I didn't have to spend a dime for getting into 10th edition, thanks to the rules being free, so I have plenty of hobby budget left for this box as well as for the KT21S3 launch box which will follow it in autumn. Until multipart plastic kit version of the Indomi termies is out, main 40K line will only get second hand sales from me

Seeing that Leviathan seems to be their most-produced box by almost an order of magnitude (at least going by what the rumour mill and their marketing says) that is a pretty safe bet

Epic may be a slow burn thing.

The feel of an Epic game is like nothing else I’ve played (not that I for one have a wide frame of reference). But it’s a visually spectacular one. Easy to paint too.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Epic may be a slow burn thing.

The feel of an Epic game is like nothing else I’ve played (not that I for one have a wide frame of reference). But it’s a visually spectacular one. Easy to paint too.

My favourite thing about epic is the scale, a 6 x 4 board size feels awesome in epic, whereas in 40K, it can feel like a parking lot in larger battles. Heck I even prefer playing KT21 on a 4 x 4, guess I'm a sucker for (relatively) big boards

The psychology of pricing is so fascinating, and clearly isn't rational, rather highly subjective.

Just thinking about it personally, I love the look of this box (minus the frightful lack of transports), and as an Epic Armageddon fan, the "size" in volume of the box looks like a good army...

... but price will be a weird factor. At say $170-ish, I know I will buy two of these and give away the extra book...

... at $200 I would buy one...

... at $250-300, I won't buy any.

Just a funny observation that our brains create pretty arbitrary break points where a thing can go from "awesome" to "crap" quite suddenly.

Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

 tauist wrote:
Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

Probably look good but an extreme sport to apply as if your brush shakes by a tiny bit you bury a guy up to his knees. Since every model is on a tactical rock, and I assume the bases still have recesses, maybe do a thin texture paint on the base before plugging in the models, they might sit a little higher but it's fine becaouse of the tactical rocks. Also 2mm grass tufts!

Scatter dice

 tauist wrote:
Now that we are getting Epic scale minis back, I've been thinking how to solve a problem I used to have with the og epic - how to base these models in a way which looks cool and in-scale. Back in the day, everyone used flock, but to me eye it always looked off.. I'm thinking texture pastes or citadel technicals might be a great solution, it would kinda look like what using sand + gravel looks like in 28mil scale..

Thoughts?

Technical or paste should work fine.