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so with the things coming out and the costs now being around it has killed a lot of interest in my local area, people are saying they cost of entry is too high for how little you get, not sure I agree but this was always going to be an easy sell to me.
chaos0xomega wrote: Just be glad it contains statlines in it at all. You didn't get any of that in the AoD HH book, nor in the 40k or AoS core rulebooks.
Pretty close to a false equivalency. It's 2 armies, not 20+ armies, AoS has like 28 armies.
HH is a dump truck full of special units and characters on top the regular units and there's been no indication, beyond paint schemes, there will be Units like; Tyrant Siegebreakers, Deathwing Companions, Golden Keshig, Dawnbreakers, etc...
This is literally Marines vs. Solar Auxilla.
Seeing how thick the book is, there's no room for a couple pages for basic units like the Land Raider or Drop Pods?
chaos0xomega wrote: Just be glad it contains statlines in it at all. You didn't get any of that in the AoD HH book, nor in the 40k or AoS core rulebooks.
Pretty close to a false equivalency. It's 2 armies, not 20+ armies, AoS has like 28 armies.
HH is a dump truck full of special units and characters on top the regular units and there's been no indication, beyond paint schemes, there will be Units like; Tyrant Siegebreakers, Deathwing Companions, Golden Keshig, Dawnbreakers, etc...
This is literally Marines vs. Solar Auxilla.
Seeing how thick the book is, there's no room for a couple pages for basic units like the Land Raider or Drop Pods?
Yeah, because GW will NEVER release LI rules for Mechanicum, Sisters of Silences, Adeptus Custodes, Ruinstorm Daemons, Imperial Militia, etc. Nope, no chance. The game will forever just be two factions - Space Marine Legions and Solar Auxilia, and their Knight Household and Titan Legion allies. Nothing more, nothing less.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SamusDrake wrote: How much is the core book on its own? Is it direct only?
60 USD, direct only.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/14 00:02:53
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Formosa wrote: so with the things coming out and the costs now being around it has killed a lot of interest in my local area, people are saying they cost of entry is too high for how little you get, not sure I agree but this was always going to be an easy sell to me.
2 Things I'd say
a) The last half of this year or so has been honestly full of "that's too expensive for what it is" on almost everything I see. Food, fuel, models, even digital goods like PC video games are creeping up. This is all the "cost of living" impacting everything and raising prices faster than normal.
b) I good few people said the same about the AT game and yet it did darned well with an even more expensive starter box.
Personally I think sticker shock might hit a little heavier because
1) We just had the battleforces for Christmas so a lot of the most loyal are likely burned out from buying those.
2) We are in the Christmas run-up so people are also starting to budget for gifts which eats into money
3) We have had a prolonged lack of sale of the game and no real impression of models. Plus GW are releasing a LOT all at once to compensate.
My gut feeling is that the larger than old Epic scale models and 10+ years of tech improvement mean that once people start seeing, handling and playing or seeing games played with the models; it should pick up in popularity. Bolstered by any AT/AN fans jumping into the game to get more from the models they already own.
My view is the greatest issue is it being 30K not 40K, but otherwise I'm hopeful it will be a solid game with a decent fanbase.
.. now does anyone want to buy £200ish worth of skaven new in boxes off me so I can grab some LI? !
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/14 00:12:42
Annnddd now you're going the complete opposite direction, lmao
You're really not good at this and are missing the point, but whatever.
A large amount of what you posted has been released as PDFs for one.
Currently, and for the known future, it's Marines vs. Solar so everything should be in the main book. There aren't so many units that they couldn't have done this. You know this is true. Stop acting ignorant.
If you're going to toss in everything but the kitchen sink, then you should go whole hog and throw in all Xenos also.
In ThE MaGiCaL FuTuRe that you come from, when all armies have been released, I'll buy a book for each one.
There is *ZERO* reason that all Marine and Solar Units aren't in this book.
My gut feeling is that the larger than old Epic scale models and 10+ years of tech improvement mean that once people start seeing, handling and playing or seeing games played with the models; it should pick up in popularity. Bolstered by any AT/AN fans jumping into the game to get more from the models they already own.
100% agreed. People seeing the models in person drove a lot of interest in AT, and I definitely think it will do so again.
It's easy to think of the tiny old Epic models and think these new kits are just less of the same, however the tanks aren't that tiny anymore:
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, because GW will NEVER release LI rules for Mechanicum, Sisters of Silences, Adeptus Custodes, Ruinstorm Daemons, Imperial Militia, etc. Nope, no chance. The game will forever just be two factions - Space Marine Legions and Solar Auxilia, and their Knight Household and Titan Legion allies. Nothing more, nothing less.
That's not quite the rebuttal you think it is. The latter inclusion of Mechanicum, Custodes and the rest doesn't change the fact that basic units like Drop Pods probably should be in the core book for the armies that currently are in the game.
There is *ZERO* reason that all Marine and Solar Units aren't in this book.
The reason is obvious and has been discussed here before at length.
MajorWesJanson wrote: Given the Epic community's large variety of 3rd party and printable files for various units, it seems like GW is holding back rules until plastic kits are ready to release in the hopes that people will get the new rules and the new kits when they release instead of getting all the rules up front, printer goes brr, and not bother to buy the kits when they come out.
This is the main reason. The aim here isn't specifically to sell supplement books, if that was true then there wouldn't be any free digital downloads for games like KT, or no unit rules included in boxes for AT & Aeronautica kits.
With very few exceptions, GW's entire marketing approach since the Chapterhouse drama is to only reveal details if they have products ready to sell. Their goal here is to obfuscate the release schedule until a time that GW are ready to start unveiling each new Epic kit. If units such as Land Raiders or Stormbirds aren't due until say Summer 2024, there's very little incentive for GW to publish those rules now and encourage players to spend 9 months arranging their own proxies. The same applies to drop pods, which may have originally been intended to land(!) 3-6 months after the main game launch in August.
Eumerin wrote: I just realized - the price list that's circulating doesn't have any of the medium tanks like the Leman Russ. That's odd...
Can't release all at once, wallets can only take that much.
There's not really that much new stuff in the initial release. The titans, knights, terrain, and aircraft have all existed at this scale before now. If you ignore them and the direct-only stuff (which can be convenient, but is very much optional), you're looking at:
1 Combined Forces box (the starter)
3 Marine kits (infantry, transports, super-heavy tank)
2 Solar Auxilia kits (infantry, super-heavy tank)
It actually seems rather thin. Here's hoping they get the first wave of releases out nice and quick to bulk up the two core armies very quickly.
It would also suggest that buying 3000 points of troops (since iirc, that's being thrown around as the recommended point total) right at the start might not be such a good idea since both armies are *very* much missing key elements at this point.
That's not a valid argument, and makes literally no sense....lmao
Fine, you can run a 10 man squad of Terms instead of 20.
Guess what, they still cost 40% less in points in LI which still means you need more units to fill the 3k list which means you still need to buy more.
We've seen items that suggest that there are ways to modify the troops that are available in detachments. There are things that suggest that it might be possible to attach other kinds of troops - terminators, for instance - to detachments.
In short, your understanding of the way that units are built in LI might be flawed.
That's not a valid argument, and makes literally no sense....lmao
Fine, you can run a 10 man squad of Terms instead of 20.
Guess what, they still cost 40% less in points in LI which still means you need more units to fill the 3k list which means you still need to buy more.
We've seen items that suggest that there are ways to modify the troops that are available in detachments. There are things that suggest that it might be possible to attach other kinds of troops - terminators, for instance - to detachments.
In short, your understanding of the way that units are built in LI might be flawed.
Yet, that doesn't matter.
5 Thunderhawk Detatchments (10 Thunderhawks) in LI cost 1400 points
7 Thunderhawks in NetEA cost 1400 points
6 Thunderhawks in EpicAU cost 1500 points
You will need *more* units, of any type, in LI than you would in NetEA (or comparable) and therefore you will need to buy more to fill out slots in LI.
If the goal is 3000 points for an army, you will need to BUY MORE to fill out an LI list.
In short, your understanding of math might be flawed.
Now LI us firmly on the way I have a question about flyers.
If I wanted to focus on aircraft what is the best way to do it?
I understand for Space Marine Legions there is a formation called 'Legion Aerial Assault' which allows for more aircraft than a normal/balanced formation like a Demi-Company. This was mentioned in a previous WHC article earlier in the year.
What about the Solar Auxilia? The only way I have seen aircraft included was as a single optional addition to a Solar Auxilia Sub Cohort, or Armoured Company. Again from a WHC article.
Any news or information on other detachments or formations?
I'm looking at LI as I got into AI when it was around so I have some flyers, more Aircraft suitable for use with the Solar Auxilia than the Legions. Thought a few flyers might give me a jump start on a force but I'm still unsure. Tried to keep any excitement levels in check until I knew LI was about to be launched and also until I knew the price structure.
If I wanted to focus on aircraft what is the best way to do it?
I understand for Space Marine Legions there is a formation called 'Legion Aerial Assault' which allows for more aircraft than a normal/balanced formation like a Demi-Company. This was mentioned in a previous WHC article earlier in the year.
What about the Solar Auxilia? The only way I have seen aircraft included was as a single optional addition to a Solar Auxilia Sub Cohort, or Armoured Company. Again from a WHC article.
Any news or information on other detachments or formations?
I'm looking at LI as I got into AI when it was around so I have some flyers, more Aircraft suitable for use with the Solar Auxilia than the Legions. Thought a few flyers might give me a jump start on a force but I'm still unsure. Tried to keep any excitement levels in check until I knew LI was about to be launched and also until I knew the price structure.
From leaks:
Spoiler:
As far as we know there isn't a aircraft specialized formation for SA. There have been leaks for the SA parts of the rulebook before and while those might have changed or could have been incomplete they showed three SA formation. You can find the leaks here The Solar Auxilia Sub Cohort and Armoured Company both only have a single air-support slot as you said but there is one more formation that has two slots for aircraft in the Pioneer Company.
But that one has two bastions as compulsory detachments and as the Tarantulas and Rapiers aren't available yet you won't actually have any bastion units so not really helpful in your case
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/14 04:10:58
If I wanted to focus on aircraft what is the best way to do it?
I understand for Space Marine Legions there is a formation called 'Legion Aerial Assault' which allows for more aircraft than a normal/balanced formation like a Demi-Company. This was mentioned in a previous WHC article earlier in the year.
What about the Solar Auxilia? The only way I have seen aircraft included was as a single optional addition to a Solar Auxilia Sub Cohort, or Armoured Company. Again from a WHC article.
Any news or information on other detachments or formations?
I'm looking at LI as I got into AI when it was around so I have some flyers, more Aircraft suitable for use with the Solar Auxilia than the Legions. Thought a few flyers might give me a jump start on a force but I'm still unsure. Tried to keep any excitement levels in check until I knew LI was about to be launched and also until I knew the price structure.
From leaks:
Spoiler:
As far as we know there isn't a aircraft specialized formation for SA. There have been leaks for the SA parts of the rulebook before and while those might have changed or could have been incomplete they showed three SA formation. You can find the leaks here The Solar Auxilia Sub Cohort and Armoured Company both only have a single air-support slot as you said but there is one more formation that has two slots for aircraft in the Pioneer Company.
But that one has two bastions as compulsory detachments and as the Tarantulas and Rapiers aren't available yet you won't actually have any bastion units so not really helpful in your case
Thank you very much for the info! I have some things to think about now.
I like the look of the Pioneer Company.
If the size of that Cohort composition is 1500pts then 2 of those would be the standard 3000pt game. Means I could have 4 Aircraft slots which is nice as I have 4 different types of SA flyers, but yes you're right I'd have to wait until the rapiers and tarantulas are available.
Optional detachment slots not used: 2x Support slots, 1x Core slot, 2x Transports slots assuming the 3x Arvus Lighters are a single detachment
Total - 489pts
Armoured Company:
Compulsory Detachments - 755pts
Super Heavy Tanks (Baneblades) - 100pts -- +1 Baneblade - 90pts, Tank Commander - 10pts
Leman Russ Squadron - 175pts -- +2 Tanks - 85pts
Malcador Squadron - 165pts -- +2 Tanks - 130pts
Optional Detachments - 160pts
Thunderbolt - 80pts -- +1 Thunderbolt - 80pts
Optional detachment slots not used: 1x Heavy Armour slots, 2x Battle Tank slots
Total - 915pts
There is also one more bit I found interesting, there actually are paid weapon upgrades. If the Thunderbolt swaps its quad autocannon for an avenger bolt cannon it costs +3pts. So they are actually fine with weapon options costing points they just choose not to use that on anything else we have seen until now
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/11/14 06:33:33
The Baneblade price does seem a bit high, I think if a retailer does 20% off that might bring it down but the problem for GW here is that even if you don't have a 3D printer you can get them from Etsy for £6-7 each or a proxy from Vanguard for a similar price. £20 for 2 tanks would have felt a lot more reasonable.
You’ll be able to get it off eBay for cheap, many peeps will be buying 2+ boxes
Yes right - this happened with AoD too, I would be surprised if you have to pay more than £10 for a rulebook within a couple of weeks of release as the 2nd hand market will be flooded with them.
