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Would primarchs be appropriate for a game this scale? I struggle to see their relevance translating to a battle this size without a lot of special rules.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Good to see it on a smaller scale...that it can be played.
Very reminiscent of 2nd Edition...which is aboslutely spot on in my books.
There did seem quite a few special rules been thrown around...like 'this tank has hit the titan and it has XX special rule'.
Also tokens...the Tokens in old Second edition were very clear. they were colour coded and had the order written on. Why do they do it like this modern way...all grey, just with a different symbol on it (something else you have to try remember when you are learning the game)
VAYASEN wrote: Well I did really enjoy the W+ Battle Report.
Good to see it on a smaller scale...that it can be played.
Very reminiscent of 2nd Edition...which is aboslutely spot on in my books.
There did seem quite a few special rules been thrown around...like 'this tank has hit the titan and it has XX special rule'.
Also tokens...the Tokens in old Second edition were very clear. they were colour coded and had the order written on. Why do they do it like this modern way...all grey, just with a different symbol on it (something else you have to try remember when you are learning the game)
A lot of the special rules on weapons were 'anti-light, therefore you get no bonus against tanks' or 'anti-tank, therefore you suffer the full AP of the weapon' which isn't too bad once you get it.
The tokens look not too impressive. Flat card tokens. I'm looking forward to getting some nice acrylic tokens of different symbols and colors.
chaos0xomega wrote: Would primarchs be appropriate for a game this scale? I struggle to see their relevance translating to a battle this size without a lot of special rules.
、
Way more than 32mm scale where they shouldn't appear at all logically.
does not compute. Primarchs fought on front lines often and regularly (even though they probably shouldn't and would be of greater utility in the rear at a command post). The full scale game is appropriate to represent that, as it is best to represent the zoomed in action occurring at key focal points in a battle, the type of place where an individual warrior and battlefield leader as important as a primarch would be most likely to be found.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
Oh yea. One of a kind that can alone turn battles is more likely involved in tiny skirmish over guard post than in big battles that have bigger impact in war...
It's the same as how jet aircraft, artillery and titans also don't perfectly "fit" into 32mm scaling. Yes they look freaking cool, yes they balance into the game; but they do mess with the visualisation when your 10 man tactical squad can run the full range of artillery in a turn or two to get into close combat. Those are marines that are sprinting like crazy to do that
Again for those elements formats like LI give a slightly more faithful representation, though even then its still messing with things when you consider most aircraft would still only appear for a turn and then vanish; and most long ranged artillery should still just be a called-in-strike instead of a model on the table.
With how GW is packaging units together, I could totally see them making resin epic-scale Primarchs coupled with the legion-specific squads that would escort them. Angron and the Red Butchers. Ferrus Manus and the Gorgon Terminators. Fulgrim and the Phoenix Terminators. Corvus Corax and the Dark Furies.
Would be a neat way to have a centerpiece unit, add that legion flavor, but then still need the regular guys that you'd logically have to fill out the rest of your force.
Overread wrote: It's the same as how jet aircraft, artillery and titans also don't perfectly "fit" into 32mm scaling. Yes they look freaking cool, yes they balance into the game; but they do mess with the visualisation when your 10 man tactical squad can run the full range of artillery in a turn or two to get into close combat. Those are marines that are sprinting like crazy to do that
Again for those elements formats like LI give a slightly more faithful representation, though even then its still messing with things when you consider most aircraft would still only appear for a turn and then vanish; and most long ranged artillery should still just be a called-in-strike instead of a model on the table.
amusing bit is when you have an anti-tank weapon with an effective range shorter than the length of the tanks its meant to be used against
tneva82 wrote: Oh yea. One of a kind that can alone turn battles is more likely involved in tiny skirmish over guard post than in big battles that have bigger impact in war...
Riiiiiiiiight.
Stop being a gakker. The fluff is clear the Primarchs fought on the front lines, not just rarely but pretty much daily. Not every battle they participated in is going to be a big battle that has a bigger impact on the war, and just because your game appears relatively small and unimportant to you doesn't mean that it actually isn't big or important (or did you think that the battle is confined to an area analogous to a 6x4 table and that absolutely nothing is happening beyond the borders of the game you're playing? Because thats a you problem more than anything else). You can field almost a couple hundred marines in a typical HH game which is (depending on the legion) a few companies worth. Thats larger than many of the battles that are featured in the HH novel series (including many of the ones in which Primarchs took to the field), which often only feature a handful of squads of marines. When I'm putting a primarch on the table, its because I'm imagining my game as the focal point of a big battle, and thats why my primarch is there. Even moreso if my opponent puts his primarch on the field. Again, if you think your game is "a tiny skirmish over a guard post" thats a failure of your imagination and nothing else.
Deal with it.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
leopard wrote: 40k writers have never really had a sense of scale or the ability to rationalise numbers
its just one of those things
a marine chapter is 1,000 marines eh?
so the actual Germans made more actual Tiger tanks than there are marines in a chapter?
*cough*
its part of the insanity, embrace it as you run over that cliff edge into the blackness and stop worrying about such things
pity the guys who were the primarch's security details
I'd say making a space marine is a little more complicated than making a WW2 tank.
But yes, that's the point. Space Marines are exceptionally rare. In lore, they're mythological, and seeing one is either a good or bad omen depending on who and where you are. Compared to that, the Imperium of mankind churns out millions of tanks and sends billions of lives out to battlefields all over the place to defend their holdings, because the space marines cannot be everywhere.
Author shortcomings aside, yes, that is how it is meant to be in the 41st millenium.
Eumerin wrote: On a galactic scale, even a billion lives should be a drop in the bucket.
But eh .. whatever. It's one of the quirks of the setting.
To be fair once you get beyond a certain number it loses relative meaning to most people. 1 Billion is a vast number to most people so trying to say there were "only 1billion" is hard to put into context for them. Truely the Imperium is mindbogglingly vast to our minds - so much so its hard to fathom just how bit it really is.
The other element is that numbers going beyond trillions always sound odd to most people because they are words and concepts they never encounter. So again it can confuse them or just not be something they can easily envision in their minds eye.
And 40K isn't alone; a lot of sci-fi and fantasy gets the "hard numbers wrong" in stories. There are plenty of fantasy tales where horses can run for vast distances that a real horse could never do; or how in DnD most adventurers are likely wandering around quite literally as rich as kings after one or two quests and being paid in gold and gemstones (and heck the shopkeepers are positively rolling in vast riches).
So the 8 Auxilia Regiments are probably the ones circled in green and Legion Transfers are circled in red. And rest are for the Titans? Must be a dedicated marine-sheet in the marine boxes.
That seems to be correct, the ones to the right of the legion transfers might be numbers to use with everyone and the one to the right of that is titans with the smaller one in the top right being for banners maybe?
Battlereport is also up now but as I don't have a subscription I will need to wait for somebody else here to tell us how it went
The starter set transfer sheet has:
Top row L-R: 8 Solar Auxilia cohorts, Astartes vehicle markings (certainly Death Guard and Iron Hands, probably Imperial Fists and Sons of Horus too)
Bottom row L-R: 4 Legions, numerals, generic Titan markings
leopard wrote: 40k writers have never really had a sense of scale or the ability to rationalise numbers
I've always assumed it's some sort of joke or maybe trying to hearken back to the olden days when decisive major battles were a lot smaller. Because a lot of the silly numbers go right back to the early days of GW, and several of the blokes who were involved with GW in those early days were history buffs. They would have been well aware the scale of battles fought through history.
There's also the 'Light Armor' slot that we haven't seen really anything for. Obvious solutions would be the Sabre for Space Marines and the Carnodon for Solar Auxilia. The Carnodon actually has a model from FW, so here's hoping it gets representation in LI.
I love tanks.
Sabre's are a safe bet give they're the symbol for light armour I believe.
I believe they even coyly suggested we might see this eventually in one of the earlier preview articles.
...and what a fun hobby project those would be!
Oh goody!
I must say that I'm rather pumped at the thought of owning a tiny transfigured Fulgrim. Hoping that his release in HH will mean that he's not too far behind in Legions.
leopard wrote: 40k writers have never really had a sense of scale or the ability to rationalise numbers
I've always assumed it's some sort of joke or maybe trying to hearken back to the olden days when decisive major battles were a lot smaller. Because a lot of the silly numbers go right back to the early days of GW, and several of the blokes who were involved with GW in those early days were history buffs. They would have been well aware the scale of battles fought through history.
perhaps, though now perpetuated by writers who have no idea where such came from
though initially Marines were just Marines, and there were a heck of a lot of them, each chapter little more than a regiment, and I always took the "1,000" figure to be 1,000 front line marines, not including the officers, support staff, drivers, gunners, cooks, medics, tailors, etc
Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/17 10:35:27
SamusDrake wrote: Is anyone looking forward to tiny Primarchs? I might give thought to an Emperor's Children / Devine collection...
Oh absolutely! I know they will be resin but it would have been super fun with a plastic hero-box with like 6 Primarchs and some other VIPs and command models.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Going to have to wait 23 hours for the full video, but Stahly has a video looking at the LI models and the thumbnail has them side by side with the old Epic plastics...
Ah yes those are definitely 8mm and 6mm
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
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