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leopard wrote: if they have the first expansion done and printed it will be out soon simply to clear the space its taking, mid-late Jan makes sense
There's still a fairly substantial wave required to release the remaining units from AT/AI and the core rulebook, such as predators and support boxes. Plus there's further terrain and two discount boxes confirmed.
I think Feb/March is more likely for the expansion book.
Two discount boxes? Care to elaborate?
I'm committed to starting LI already, but am not too keen on the starter box as I dont like the idea of having to deal with dumping SA & those Warhounds and the physical rulebook, since the secondhand markets will be flooded with them soon enough. If there was a more affordable way to just getting core Marine units at significant discounts, I'd be all over such a thing. I want to go with the digital books and 3rd party lasercut tokens, so don't really see anything in the box I couldn't live without. Aren't those Blast markers the same that ship with Age Of Darkness box? If they are, I already have one set still on sprue
The old titan and knight discount boxes will come back as limited once and done release. That we know but not wgen.
So I have been looking through the weapon keywords and special rules and there are a few interesting ones who aren't currently used on any model:
Neutron Flux: No model currently that uses a neutron weapon (Except the Dire Wolf but that one doesn't have this rule), looking at 28mm HH Neutron weapon are used by the Sabre tank, Predator and Sicaran versions, Falchion and the Cerberus Tank, all of which we don't have in LI yet. The first thought would be the Sabre/Falchion/Cerberus as those are completely new but the Neutron Flux is actually also used in HH and only for a single weapon, the Neutron-flux warheads of the Sicaran Arcus. That makes me think we will get that Sicaran version in the future which means they are open to make new versions of already existing models. Which opens up endless possibilities for further model options, for example different Predators/Support Squads/Heavy Weapon Squads
Loyalist/Traitor: The Loyalist keyword is used by the Warlord Sinister Psi Titan but the Traitor keyword isn't actually used for anything yet. And the only thing that would really make sense with that would be characters and Primarchs. As they already kinda teased Primarchs those should be pretty locked in.
Same for the Unique keyword, only really makes sense on characters and Primarchs
Battlesmith is also not used currently, not even for the Iron Hands special rules where I would have expected it. In HH in appears on Techmarines, two Consuls and Iron Hands specific characters/Ferrus Manus. Could be further confirmation for Primarchs with Ferrus Manus, could be a 5 man base of Techmarines or could be a sign that we will get individual models like Consuls or characters.
Other weapon keywords I have no idea where they could be used are Power Capacitor (double dice with first fire order) and Ripple Fire (reroll hits of 1 if order is first fire) For special rules there is Phosphex which is used by the Leviathan in HH but he doesn't have that weapon in LI. There are other Phospex weapons for SM not yet in LI like on Destroyers or on the Arquitor but then again its not a weapon keyword but a unit special rule (Models engaged with unit with this rule gain no positive modifiers on their CAF for being garrisoned) Sounds like something we could see with Mechanicum?
Then there is stuff you can already guess like Attached Deployment which should be the SA Cyclops
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/11/19 14:41:45
Matrindur wrote: Am I the only one who is surprised at the lack of battlereports? I can only find thesetwo and GMGs how to play video.
Would have expected more to show the new game
I suspect the supplied previews only contained the starter (Or that they are only allowed to show the stuff that came with the starter) Which makes playing a game hard.
"I'll tell you right now: this is an expensive game. I will talk more about it in the review, but this is more expensive than 40k. If you think that you're getting into this as a cheaper alternative to 40k, you're wrong, it's the opposite, and that SHOCKS us. I think that holds the game back by a tremendous amount."
And this is coming from someone that seems pretty positive about it.
Than 40k? I'm fairly sure this at least is wrong.
Depending on your 40k army though.
Apple fox wrote: Honestly I glad I decided to skip, game doesn’t look particularly worth it for the investment and the minis don’t wow much at all.
The tanks are amazingly done.
I know it's the nature of the internet, and dakka especially, to grouse about the things that suck until they eclipse all other things, but the tanks are very very good.
Goonhammer review is definitely something. The phrase "It’s not great, and may not even be good, but it’s certainly not bad" is going into my quotes collection.
Batreps will come as more people get access to more stuff... which will take time since it all sold out in the US in about 10 minutes.
Either way, we will likely have to get through the holidays before we start seeing any sniffs of the next wave of LI stuff. It'll be impressive if they just bring more stuff back into stock over the next month or so.
I'm not necessarily surprised. GW were likely banking on the game being a flop due to the delays and such, and it still could be if the number 1 buyer of the new stuff were scalpers instead of actual players.
Titanicus had good slow-burn success, but Aeronautica flopped hard (due to covid primarily, but GW don't consider outside effects on their business based on what I've seen, so they just see 'a flop is a flop' and move on). You can also see that many titans and planes are still in stock, which could imply that a lot of the clientele that's buying already had a bunch of titans and planes, so if GW is going for the same demographic, and they have the data to support that, they'll likely make as much of this as they did of Titanicus.
Ergo, long periods of time of resin models being out of stock and intermittent availability of everything else, with a relatively slow release schedule.
Get ready for the long haul, and we still gotta wait 2 weeks before this stuff is in our hands.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 16:30:49
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I know we are all into doing things to the highest order, as hobbyists... but I never get the assertion that switching to a new scale adds monumental terrain costs. Sure it isn't glorious, but when starting out, a set of that Dropzone cardstock terrain is like $30 and completely covers a 6'x4' table.
I'm not necessarily surprised. GW were likely banking on the game being a flop due to the delays and such, and it still could be if the number 1 buyer of the new stuff were scalpers instead of actual players.
.
Ummm what? Gw wouldn't even greenlight project if they didn't expect to sell.
They are in for PROFIT. Not releasing games to flop just for fun of it and just because unexpected delay happened they don't go "oh I want game to flop". If anytthing they want it succeed even better to sort out added expense...
Seeing that the main box set is sold out already… maybe I missed this but is it coming back or was this a limited box set and like now you can only get the rules and models separately going forward?
Necros wrote: Seeing that the main box set is sold out already… maybe I missed this but is it coming back or was this a limited box set and like now you can only get the rules and models separately going forward?
They confirmed the starter box is a permanent product and will be restocked again in time. Might be a few months though.
SgtBANZAI wrote: Goonhammer review is definitely something. The phrase "It’s not great, and may not even be good, but it’s certainly not bad" is going into my quotes collection.
This is pretty much the tagline of all warhammer products though really.
SgtBANZAI wrote: Goonhammer review is definitely something. The phrase "It’s not great, and may not even be good, but it’s certainly not bad" is going into my quotes collection.
This is pretty much the tagline of all warhammer products though really.
At least in so far as rules are concerned!
Models they tend to be very much in the upper end of ratings; but yeah for rules GW's rules have always been "so so" with glaring issues that could be easily fixed but never are. Either because GW are deaf to them or because they don't so much as fix/change them as just change all the rules every X number of years anyway.
I think the Warhounds are really what damages the value proposition of it all
On the one hand, I agree. Players who played AT likely already have more Warhounds than they're likely to want. So they're an unneeded addition to the box for AT players. Further, given that there's two of them, they're a big, clunky addition points-wise, since you're restricted in how you can use them when putting your army together.
On the other, I can see the logic behind putting them in the box. Big stompy war machines sell, and so putting them in the box will likely drive sales for some who were borderline about it. And they put two in since it's designed as a vs. box. Each side gets one of them.
It occurs to me that a better choice might have been to swap out one of the Warhounds for some aircraft. AI was a much less popular game, so fewer players will already have them. The aircraft would be a basic boost to the points of one of the armies (since they're linked to a specific faction), and get around the issue of having two pricy models that can only be taken as an ally. And keeping one Warhound would retain the "big stompy war machine" appeal.
But they didn't. So there's not much point debating it now.
Crablezworth wrote: Has anyone seen a review that goes in depth on the terrain rules? There would seem to be far more pages of rules than the 1 page titanicus had.
Yeah the GMG rules review posted here earlier covers terrain in detail, and with a lot of enthusiasm.
I bet stores and LGS's will have stock of the box come release day, so wouldn't worry about it too much
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tneva82 wrote:Both marines and sa have their own aircraft to use.
Ordered myself thunderhawk while waiting for more marine flyers. For now most are for sa. Marine ones waiting re-release
I was finally able to get on the GW site w/o being kicked into the queue. I was thinking about getting a Thunderhawk just to sit on my desk, but Fifty Bucks!?!?? For ONE!!! Hard pass.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 18:51:00
F - is the Fire that rains from the skies.
U - for Uranium Bomb!
N - is for No Survivors...
Conclusion - GW deliberately understocked and is hurting the market through FOMO
GW product does not sell out on prelaunch
Conclusion - GW has failed again to predict sales and has overstocked on a failing product line that is clearly not selling well and will likely be dead within 6 months
In the end this is just a pre-order wave and chances are GW and many shops have set aside stock for physical release as well as the online. In general it seems like its sold out rather well; most people seem to have managed to get hold of product and since its all going to be long term, any who have missed out can expect to be able to buy it again in the future.
The only exception are the cards, which are always an exception because it seems that GW only ever makes 1 or 2 bulk orders and never treats them as a product to continually restock.
Even then you can oft find cards in physical stores, though that can take some hunting.
I think the Warhounds are really what damages the value proposition of it all
On the one hand, I agree. Players who played AT likely already have more Warhounds than they're likely to want. So they're an unneeded addition to the box for AT players. Further, given that there's two of them, they're a big, clunky addition points-wise, since you're restricted in how you can use them when putting your army together.
Fundamentally a starter box is always going to be a better deal for some players than others. I've seen a few people talk about how the HH AOD box didn't work well for their particular legion, while other players were happy to pick up more than one copy.
In time we'll see LI discount boxes, and possibly a new starter set in a few years once the range has grown a bit. Those will help to pick up new customers with different requirements.
Eumerin wrote: It occurs to me that a better choice might have been to swap out one of the Warhounds for some aircraft.
Unfortunately that's not possible due to the way the sprues are laid out. You either get 4 sprues that build two models, or 3 sprues that build one with tons of spare bits.
I'm not necessarily surprised. GW were likely banking on the game being a flop due to the delays and such, and it still could be if the number 1 buyer of the new stuff were scalpers instead of actual players.
.
Ummm what? Gw wouldn't even greenlight project if they didn't expect to sell.
They are in for PROFIT. Not releasing games to flop just for fun of it and just because unexpected delay happened they don't go "oh I want game to flop". If anytthing they want it succeed even better to sort out added expense...
Repeat. GW is in for PROFIT.
I'm sure it was a very profitable launch for them. The business plan wouldn't be structured such that a quick sellout would be unprofitable, lol.
In some other industries/businesses, you wouldn't want to sell out so quite so quickly because you're effectively turning away sales to customers who may not come back. But LI is just a niche game even for GW. They have to balance LI production against production of kits for their core games. So they're really only going to make so much of it. And they don't want to have to warehouse a gak ton of it anyway, because again it'll be slower-moving product compared to core stuff. So it's going to be like this with stops and starts in terms of kit availability, just like it was for AT.
Conclusion - GW deliberately understocked and is hurting the market through FOMO
GW product does not sell out on prelaunch
Conclusion - GW has failed again to predict sales and has overstocked on a failing product line that is clearly not selling well and will likely be dead within 6 months
The only correct solution for a perfect launch is for GW to have exactly one copy left on a shelf somewhere! /s
But yeah this launch did seem to hit a healthier balance than normal between stock and popularity. LI was still available in many places for several hours on Saturday rather than completely selling out within 2 minutes. I'm also sure other copies will appear as allocations get fine-tuned.
People believed GW didn't think LI will profit must have missed the gazillion of plastic kits revealed, that's several years worth of other Specialist games releases combined.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/19 19:51:15
Chopstick wrote: People believed GW didn't think LI will profit must have missed the gazillion of plastic kits revealed, that's several years worth of other Specialist games releases combined.
It's an interesting example of what they can do when they want to. Meanwhile for Necromunda the same division struggles and in fact might fail to push out a one-sprue vehicle for all the 6 core gangs before the Ash Wastes theme concludes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/19 20:21:24
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Chopstick wrote: People believed GW didn't think LI will profit must have missed the gazillion of plastic kits revealed, that's several years worth of other Specialist games releases combined.
It's an interesting example of what they can do when they want to. Meanwhile for Necromunda the same division struggles and in fact might fail to push out a one-sprue vehicle for all the 6 core gangs before the Ash Wastes theme concludes.
One could suspect that Aeronautica and Titanicus have paved the way for a big investment in Legions. We're likely looking at 30+ plastic releases in the games first year and GW is not known to gamble.
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted) 
