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 Crablezworth wrote:

They're covered in gmg's review, flamers actually do get templates and the laser/valdor gets shock pulse, so sorta upstages the dire wolf a bit.

I'm asking about the kits, not the rules.

SU-152 wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
Support Boxes come with Unit Profiles:



https://www.chaosbunker.de/de/2024/02/17/review-legions-imperialis-solar-auxilia-support-box/?fbclid=IwAR1rCmHY9oKAfOqYN5CNc0PY_4XPbNYyQEh9BUUB3lOKT-I7ZzxjRV3Zl2w&cn-reloaded=1

Yet another example of bad rules design. Can the Cyclops attack if there are no Commanders within 12"? it does not say it can't...

How could it? It's weapon doesn't have a range so clearly nothing can ever be in range for it to fire at and detonation requires a commander nearby.

Book and cards were out of stock in the my two 'local' stores as soon as pre-orders went live. There was no chance to order them at all.

I really don't understand how GW don't make more stock for these, as surely the more people that get their hands on the rules the more people will buy minis. I don't buy the 'they can't ship from china right now', these books would have been printed up months ago and they were able to print enough stock to replace the LI rulebooks quickly. Or perhaps they should stop printing in china and print locally.

I honestly expect a lot of people to flock to the new mantic version after this, and I'm sure in years to come we'll hear youtubers telling us GW canned LI as it wasn't popular enough. As much as the warpath KS has grabbed my attention, I've had less than great experiences with them in the past and the fact we've not seen any proper miniatures for the game at all yet (3d renders never look the same as the actual plastic sprues) puts me off enough to stay clear. Shame, as otherwise it sounds like it might be a good game.

I'm going to spend the cash I would have done on LI today, on redoing my entire Epic scale space-Skaven army from scratch.

SU-152 wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
Support Boxes come with Unit Profiles:



https://www.chaosbunker.de/de/2024/02/17/review-legions-imperialis-solar-auxilia-support-box/?fbclid=IwAR1rCmHY9oKAfOqYN5CNc0PY_4XPbNYyQEh9BUUB3lOKT-I7ZzxjRV3Zl2w&cn-reloaded=1

Yet another example of bad rules design. Can the Cyclops attack if there are no Commanders within 12"? it does not say it can't...

I'd argue it makes it so explicit that it can only choose to detonate WHEN it ends its movement in the movement phase, but each model is limited also by its movement still ending within 12 of a commander. A less strict reading would assume it can still choose to detonate in another phase assuming the commander is within 12.

 RexHavoc wrote:
Book and cards were out of stock in the my two 'local' stores as soon as pre-orders went live. There was no chance to order them at all.

I really don't understand how GW don't make more stock for these, as surely the more people that get their hands on the rules the more people will buy minis. I don't buy the 'they can't ship from china right now', these books would have been printed up months ago and they were able to print enough stock to replace the LI rulebooks quickly. Or perhaps they should stop printing in china and print locally.

I honestly expect a lot of people to flock to the new mantic version after this, and I'm sure in years to come we'll hear youtubers telling us GW canned LI as it wasn't popular enough. As much as the warpath KS has grabbed my attention, I've had less than great experiences with them in the past and the fact we've not seen any proper miniatures for the game at all yet (3d renders never look the same as the actual plastic sprues) puts me off enough to stay clear. Shame, as otherwise it sounds like it might be a good game.

I'm going to spend the cash I would have done on LI today, on redoing my entire Epic scale space-Skaven army from scratch.

I think an argument can be made that GW should have sat on LI for another 6 months, let them build more inventory, then do a proper launch where people actually have the chance to buy the stuff.

So cards and the rulebook out of stock from GW online US in less than 5 minutes after 12 PM US CST, but did get my order in according to GW.

Minis still available.

Still this stock situation I think is going to strangle this game to death. Almost nobody in my immediate area is playing currently because of the availability.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So cards and the rulebook out of stock from GW online US in less than 5 minutes after 12 PM US CST, but did get my order in according to GW.

Minis still available.

Still this stock situation I think is going to strangle this game to death. Almost nobody in my immediate area is playing currently because of the availability.

Book out of stock on gw canada online, cards too I think, some minis still there.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So cards and the rulebook out of stock from GW online US in less than 5 minutes after 12 PM US CST, but did get my order in according to GW.

Minis still available.

Still this stock situation I think is going to strangle this game to death. Almost nobody in my immediate area is playing currently because of the availability.

^^^ this

it may well be wonderful for GW to sell 100% of what they release but its going to be short lived if by the time people can get hold of it the moment has passed and its just "that game that looked good but you could never get the stuff to play"


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 Crablezworth wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
So cards and the rulebook out of stock from GW online US in less than 5 minutes after 12 PM US CST, but did get my order in according to GW.

Minis still available.

Still this stock situation I think is going to strangle this game to death. Almost nobody in my immediate area is playing currently because of the availability.

Book out of stock on gw canada online, cards too I think, some minis still there.

not much point buying the models if you can't get the rules and formations to use them

leopard wrote:

not much point buying the models if you can't get the rules and formations to use them

Admittedly the new website doesn't make this easy to find

https://www.warhammerdigital.com/all-products/legions-imperialis-the-great-slaughter-epub-2024.html

It's not out of stock... yet

its good there is an "e" version, but despite being in Yorkshire its not much use to me, don't have a suitable tablet to view it on and my desktop PC isn't exactly mobile

could print a few pages (presumably they haven't tried to block printing?)

but from the GMG review, short of unit profiles & formations I'm not sure there is anything else in the book I actually want

leopard wrote:
its good there is an "e" version, but despite being in Yorkshire its not much use to me, don't have a suitable tablet to view it on and my desktop PC isn't exactly mobile

could print a few pages (presumably they haven't tried to block printing?)

but from the GMG review, short of unit profiles & formations I'm not sure there is anything else in the book I actually want

It combined with not even being able to order it has just saved me 60 dollars. I'm with you, there really is just seemingly 10 pages of rules I actually want.

 skeleton wrote:
If you like crap vehicles then warpath is for you, the infantery is nice. The rules ?? your better play epic armagedon.

That and having a 2k points army for the price of a LI box too ^^

I've read some folks on here have already invested "over a grand" into LI, so I doubt GW will consider LI a failure anytime soon. Heck, the game is less than 6 months old. All the stock stores get are sold out. That doesn't tell me the game is dying, I'd say it has had quite a strong start for an entirely new product in an entirely different scale. GW estimated sales projections were off by quite a bit it seems, which is also telling me the game is doing better than anticipated.. 10th edition's pisspoor state of affairs no doubt plays into this as well..

Mantic might get a couple grognards on board their game, but I doubt it's going to surpass LI in popularity. Anyways, competition is good, and hopefully it'll keep GW from getting even more complacent with how things currently stand.

Still, having said that, rules DLC drip feed and a relatively slow release cycle for models feels kind of meh. How many years and books will it take to get Astartes fully fleshed out,d for example? And that's just one of the factions of HH (although admittedly the largest one)

Issue is?

Let’s say I and a friend head to our local FLGS with our painted Legions Imperialis forces. We play a game, and some heads are turned.

This is how games are best promoted of course, folk seeing other folk having fun whilst playing it.

Those turned heads decide to drop some dosh on it. Except not only does the FLGS not have any stock? But…neither does GW.

A game can be fantastic. The best game ever made. But attention spans are finite, especially in a market as niche as Wargaming. If you can’t buy-in straight off the bat, there’s no guarantee you’ll be back any time soon.

As I’ve said before, GW selling out is a nice enough problem to have, but it is still a problem, and one that needs solving sooner rather than later. Because not selling because you’ve no stock to sell really isn’t all that different to it simply not selling. Either way, you’re getting no return on your production investment.

Warpath is of no interest to me, because I don’t just want to play Epic Scale Games. I want to play Epic Scale Games in a universe that’s been part of my life for the past..erm….34 years.

this is basically it, I doubt there are many who play GW games for the tightly written and well edited rules, they play them for the background, the nostalgia

its why for example "Gates of Antares", a game which is objectively considerably better than 40k basically died. no one had any investment is a very synthetic "safe" background that read like the inlay from a ZX Spectrum game and was only there because some sort of background was considered to be required

its also why I think LI has all the flavour and weapons loadouts etc in, so players who want to run say a Leman Russ tank company can do so, and not a generic "Medium tank" company

the appeal was always for me at least the ability to run an army you wanted to have in 28mm, but knew you never would have and couldn't find a suitable table to play it on anyway

its why I loved 1st edition so much, it was, more or less, 40k 1st edition played at 6mm with cm in place of inches and the "to wound" roll taken out

I think the only thing holding LI back is definitely the stock issue. Warpath holds no interest for me, I don't like the look or quality of Mantic stuff. I've looked at it at a few wargame shows and always walked away without buying.
I want to play epic in this fully fluffed out universe. I was lucky enough to order what I thought except the cards but once I get the rules I can make my own cards up. If they could get the stock in sorted out by having more available and release new models quicker it'll remove a lot of the complaints, it wont stop the complaints as this version of the hobby is full of people for whom it seems to be their main thing to do.
GW is far from perfect but the quality of miniatures has nearly always been much better than their competitors.
I'm sticking with LI as it's a lot of fun to play, I just want more toys to play with.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I think an argument can be made that GW should have sat on LI for another 6 months, let them build more inventory, then do a proper launch where people actually have the chance to buy the stuff.

They actually did sit on it for months...




On another note, does anyone else feel like the SA Super-Heavy company should have been available in the Core Rule Book instead of the Armored Company? It's an actual formation that players could have bought with the models that were available at release outside of the Core Box. Spend enough money (and with a little luck in finding figures available to buy), and you could even build up full-size detachments for the unit.

Eumerin wrote:

They actually did sit on it for months...

I wonder if that helped or made it worse in the end. On one hand they could have used that time to produce more (Which I don't think they did looking at the stock levels), on the other hand it might have moved the production time into collision with other planned stuff since they wouldn't want to produce stuff months earlier that just sits in the warehouses afterwards. Of course that wouldn't affect the launch releases since the delay was too close to the original launch to not have everything produced already but for example they might have originally set aside a time period to manufacture the stuff on preorder now but since they are releasing later than originally planned and they didn't want them to sit in the warehouses that long they instead produced them closer to release where they might have to split the manufacturing time between them and other stuff that was planned for that time period which results in lower number of boxes produced.

Eumerin wrote:

On another note, does anyone else feel like the SA Super-Heavy company should have been available in the Core Rule Book instead of the Armored Company? It's an actual formation that players could have bought with the models that were available at release outside of the Core Box. Spend enough money (and with a little luck in finding figures available to buy), and you could even build up full-size detachments for the unit.

Instead of the Armoured Company? No. In addition? Probably yes

Eumerin wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I think an argument can be made that GW should have sat on LI for another 6 months, let them build more inventory, then do a proper launch where people actually have the chance to buy the stuff.

They actually did sit on it for months...

I wouldn't really describe it as sitting on it, they had a date, something screwed up so that date slipped, but when they launched they didn't have much stock and in the weeks after launch some stuff restocked. The product that was part of the restock would have already been in late stage manufacture if not in the process of being shipped at launch.

So basically the hallmark of a rushed launch. If they'd waited for that product to be ready to ship then there would have been more available on launch day and less people put off by not being able to buy it.

So I just noticed something about the Orbital Assault special rule in the core book. It says that models that have both this rule and the Drop Pod rule can fire all their weapons after deploying.
Since it only works with drop pods, no other model should get this rule but none of the drop pod variants in the new book has this rule, not even the Deathstorm?
So unless that rule will only be on the Dreadclaw or Kharybdis (Do they have a rule like this in HH which the normal Drop Pods don't have?) they just forgot about this rule from the core book when writing the expansion book.

Wouldn't be the first thing that feels like different teams designed the two, for example in the core book many detachments get cheaper if you take more models in a single slot instead of multiple, meanwhile none of the expansion book units have that. They are all just multiples of the base cost points.
Or another one would be how in the core book in the dedicated transport rule it talks about taking Spartans as dedicated transports which isn't possible with any formation and there is nothing in the expansion book to change that. (Though that could change in the form of an errata for the Demi-Company formation)

 Matrindur wrote:

I wonder if that helped or made it worse in the end. On one hand they could have used that time to produce more (Which I don't think they did looking at the stock levels), on the other hand it might have moved the production time into collision with other planned stuff since they wouldn't want to produce stuff months earlier that just sits in the warehouses afterwards. Of course that wouldn't affect the launch releases since the delay was too close to the original launch to not have everything produced already but for example they might have originally set aside a time period to manufacture the stuff on preorder now but since they are releasing later than originally planned and they didn't want them to sit in the warehouses that long they instead produced them closer to release where they might have to split the manufacturing time between them and other stuff that was planned for that time period which results in lower number of boxes produced.

The consistency so far of "four combat boxes per wave" (not including the Rhino transports) leads me to believe that this is the release schedule that they've had planned since the start. The fact that the SA support box includes units from both books solidifies that suspicion on my part. I can't say that I'm happy about it. I'm a bit reluctant to try and recruit a group to play at my FLGS when most of the very basic stuff simply isn't available from GW (yes... 3D printing... but you don't support your FLGS by buying that). This isn't like AT, where you only need to buy a few kits to have a powerful force. I hope that the release schedule picks up, because otherwise we're going to be waiting over a year just to get the figures that we've got rules for so far.

I was out of the house doing some work at 10 and wasn't able to get to my computer till 11.

And of course both book and cards are no longer available.

Kind of hard to get enthused about something I won't be able to get till its reprinted, or in the case of the cards, not at all.

the superheavy company should certainly been in the main book, and the normal tank company should have had the superheavy slot as optional not mandatory, so as to make that a formation you could actually use with what was in the starter set, plus avoiding what feels like a 100 point "tax" on a leman russ formation

TBH i'm considering this a very slow grow, i'll ignore the rules until 2nd ed comes out in a few years and use it as a hobby project till then. Paint some nice models as and when they come into stock to buy, no drama then

I'm starting to wonder if the availability of a digital version is not going to be an excuse going forward to absolutely botching the launch of physical editions. And in reverse, if the unavailability of physical books is not a try to make paying (a lot!) for digital rules palatable.

The book will be reprinted, on account it’s showing as temporarily out of stock.

Wondering if we might get a further wave announced this evening. Would be nice, as I need more Predators and Sicarans.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Wondering if we might get a further wave announced this evening. Would be nice, as I need more Predators and Sicarans.

They usually leave at least a month between releases for the same range, so sadly I'm not expecting anything more at Epic scale until at least the end of March.

With AOS and then 40k in the last two releases, tonight is most likely TOW or HH.

It's neither really mostly DA with one HH character. Oh well there's always next week to look forward to.

meanwhile the Whirlwinds and Vindicators I have cry

Billicus wrote:
I'm cutting my losses with legions imperialis, I had the new support units and tanks in my cart and just thought, why am I even doing this? Probably going to sell what I've got and wait for Warpath

I'm heading in that direction. It's unfortunate.