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 makeitorky wrote:


I really wish there were more miniatures of women that were like actually realistic. I know the topic is probably a dead horse, but sculpters, please go outside and look at real women! We don't look like sex dolls! Also, the fact that the vast majority of women miniatures are heels is just so frustrating.

Here are a couple of options:

Bad Squiddo

Oathsworn

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 makeitorky wrote:


I really wish there were more miniatures of women that were like actually realistic. I know the topic is probably a dead horse, but sculpters, please go outside and look at real women! We don't look like sex dolls! Also, the fact that the vast majority of women miniatures are heels is just so frustrating.

Here are a couple of options:

Bad Squiddo

Oathsworn

I really appreciate these suggestions, thank you!

It's worth noting at 25/28mm scale, even general details are pretty darn small and exaggeration for visibility is the name of the game. That's why we exaggerate shading and highlighting when painting.

Yeah, 25/28mm minis are exaggerated, both male and female. If they're not exaggerated, they come across as quite androgynous on the tabletop.

Taking the two examples, Bad Squiddo and Oathsworn, take a good look at those ladies close up. Quite curvy, solid C and D-cups across the board, because anything less just looks flat (and therefore masculine or androgynous) at 25/28mm scale.

Of course, there's exaggerating, and then there's just being silly. I'll grant quite a few female sculpts would have a hard time finding bras that fit and develop severe back problems in short order in real life.

 Vulcan wrote:
It's worth noting at 25/28mm scale, even general details are pretty darn small and exaggeration for visibility is the name of the game. That's why we exaggerate shading and highlighting when painting.

Yeah, 25/28mm minis are exaggerated, both male and female. If they're not exaggerated, they come across as quite androgynous on the tabletop.

Taking the two examples, Bad Squiddo and Oathsworn, take a good look at those ladies close up. Quite curvy, solid C and D-cups across the board, because anything less just looks flat (and therefore masculine or androgynous) at 25/28mm scale.

Of course, there's exaggerating, and then there's just being silly. I'll grant quite a few female sculpts would have a hard time finding bras that fit and develop severe back problems in short order in real life.

I agree with your basic point, and acknowledge that regular human proportions at this scale don't really work at arm's length. That said, you'll not find g-strings or bare midriffs in either of these lines, which is at least part of what makeitory (and myself) like about them.

 makeitorky wrote:

The price for plastic minis is pretty high for what they are. I don't understand why some companies (like GW) don't slash their prices and get more sales. This is especially so with the single figures. I really like the Wurrgog minature, but $30 for a single normal sized 28mm mini is ridiculous.

I've seen it speculated that GW production is more or less maxed out, so there'd be only profit loss if they reduced prices.

 Vulcan wrote:
It's worth noting at 25/28mm scale, even general details are pretty darn small and exaggeration for visibility is the name of the game. That's why we exaggerate shading and highlighting when painting.

Yeah, 25/28mm minis are exaggerated, both male and female. If they're not exaggerated, they come across as quite androgynous on the tabletop.

Taking the two examples, Bad Squiddo and Oathsworn, take a good look at those ladies close up. Quite curvy, solid C and D-cups across the board, because anything less just looks flat (and therefore masculine or androgynous) at 25/28mm scale.

Of course, there's exaggerating, and then there's just being silly. I'll grant quite a few female sculpts would have a hard time finding bras that fit and develop severe back problems in short order in real life.

Yeah I'm talking silly. While I don't like the stumpy marines of yesteryear and I think there are Grenadier and Ral Partha models older still in lead that had better proportion I understand there is some limitation. But we're talking silly stuff, doll faced animae looking heads on overtly sexualized adult female bodies which (if dressed) are wearing sexy army that is basically worthless for protection and weapons so large they couldn't possibly be wielded with those tiny wrists.

When I see something like that I don't see miniatures I see porn.

 Adeptekon wrote:
...and weapons so large they couldn't possibly be wielded with those tiny wrists.

That's another fun part of sculpting at 25/28mm. A realistically thin weapon is going to bend or shatter with even careful handling. So weapons have to be beefed up just to survive being removed from the mould, packaging, and assembly.

Now when the wrists in question are even thinner than the weapon, at that point you're getting back into 'silly' again, so I agree with you there. That and Battle Lingerie.

But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

 Vulcan wrote:
But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

The frustrating thing about that market, as a woman, is that it dominates the tiny production of female minis. Scantily clad, or just stark nude, figures seem to be the norm, not the exception. If that was reversed, I'd still be leery of those figures due to their perception of the female body, but I wouldn't be so nearly incensed at their preponderance.

Outside of a few small manufacturers, like Bad Squido (who I think do an amazing job), even the most normal female minis still often have boobplate armor, painfully tiny waists (where are your organs girl?!), and wear heels. I understand things need to be emphasized and such for the heroic scale, and I think Bad Squido does a good job there. They make minis with a larger bust, but don't emphasize it, their hips are normal, don't wear fetish clothing and, possibly most importantly, have faces that look like women.

Sorry for the ramble, I do see your point, I just wish checking mini sites for women wasn't such a wall of bikinis and nipples.

 makeitorky wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

The frustrating thing about that market, as a woman, is that it dominates the tiny production of female minis. Scantily clad, or just stark nude, figures seem to be the norm, not the exception. If that was reversed, I'd still be leery of those figures due to their perception of the female body, but I wouldn't be so nearly incensed at their preponderance.

Outside of a few small manufacturers, like Bad Squido (who I think do an amazing job), even the most normal female minis still often have boobplate armor, painfully tiny waists (where are your organs girl?!), and wear heels. I understand things need to be emphasized and such for the heroic scale, and I think Bad Squido does a good job there. They make minis with a larger bust, but don't emphasize it, their hips are normal, don't wear fetish clothing and, possibly most importantly, have faces that look like women.

Sorry for the ramble, I do see your point, I just wish checking mini sites for women wasn't such a wall of bikinis and nipples.

Well, I play both Dark Elves and Cult of Slaneesh, so a certain amount of fetishwear is inevitable in my collection...

But even there, I've had to do a bit of 'covering up' with paint and sculpting to keep my armies 'public friendly' when I generally like the mini, but think the nudity or near-nudity is going a step too far.


Have you looked at Reaper minis? By and large their female minis seem much better than the 'wall of bikinis and nipples' so common elsewhere.

Cyel wrote:
1.Tiny contact points which are supposed to be glued together (particularly on metal minis)
.

Hehe, i see aomeone who has assembled nyss hunters.... :p

Cyel wrote:


2.Wildly different scale between editions of the same faction (when I mix mk1 Trollbloods with mk3 ones they look like children and bodybuilders)
.

... and kell Bailoch and the black 13th, as well as the Infinity range.

Cyel wrote:


3. Yeah, the mold lines in all the wrong places.

Yup!

 makeitorky wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

The frustrating thing about that market, as a woman, is that it dominates the tiny production of female minis. Scantily clad, or just stark nude, figures seem to be the norm, not the exception. If that was reversed, I'd still be leery of those figures due to their perception of the female body, but I wouldn't be so nearly incensed at their preponderance.

Outside of a few small manufacturers, like Bad Squido (who I think do an amazing job), even the most normal female minis still often have boobplate armor, painfully tiny waists (where are your organs girl?!), and wear heels. I understand things need to be emphasized and such for the heroic scale, and I think Bad Squido does a good job there. They make minis with a larger bust, but don't emphasize it, their hips are normal, don't wear fetish clothing and, possibly most importantly, have faces that look like women.

Sorry for the ramble, I do see your point, I just wish checking mini sites for women wasn't such a wall of bikinis and nipples.

I might be wrong here, but Victoria Miniatures has some fairly big lines of female Guard that to me look naturally proportioned, don't wear heels and use the same uniforms as their male counterparts. Just to maybe give you another source here.

Deadnight wrote:

Cyel wrote:
1.Tiny contact points which are supposed to be glued together (particularly on metal minis)
.

Hehe, i see someone who has assembled nyss hunters.... :p

Actually I tried my best to avoid having to deal with metal Nyss Hunters : https://lormahordes.freeforums.net/thread/9637/idoneth-reavers-warmachine

And in action: http://momentofclarity.eu/nemo2-vs-gaspy2-one-attack-too-far/

My main three gripes:

1. "Prolongation" of details because they actually require an undercut.

Some of GW offenders: ETB Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought, Chaos cultists.

It may not be obviously visible during gameplay... but I hate it during assembling and painting

2. Channels on round surfaces.
By the life of me I can not get them properly removed without "damaging" the surface and there is more than one mini I have set aside frustrated.

3. "Split" details
I hate it when details are simply split in the middle. You can usually see it... and it is very hard to work with any putty to repair it.

 makeitorky wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

The frustrating thing about that market, as a woman, is that it dominates the tiny production of female minis. Scantily clad, or just stark nude, figures seem to be the norm, not the exception. If that was reversed, I'd still be leery of those figures due to their perception of the female body, but I wouldn't be so nearly incensed at their preponderance.

Outside of a few small manufacturers, like Bad Squido (who I think do an amazing job), even the most normal female minis still often have boobplate armor, painfully tiny waists (where are your organs girl?!), and wear heels. I understand things need to be emphasized and such for the heroic scale, and I think Bad Squido does a good job there. They make minis with a larger bust, but don't emphasize it, their hips are normal, don't wear fetish clothing and, possibly most importantly, have faces that look like women.

Sorry for the ramble, I do see your point, I just wish checking mini sites for women wasn't such a wall of bikinis and nipples.

If you're not locked to 40k, Infinity has some really nice female models. There's a mix between soldiers, anime girls, and "anime" girls. Currently, my Nomads list is an even split between men and women, but none of the women are scantily clad, other than maybe Mary Problems, and the ones that are soldiers instead of support are armed and armored in the same ways as the men, and look really nice.
I think women in PacOceania use boob plate, but to a more reasonable degree than a lot I see.
Just don't look at the TAG pilots.

 Vulcan wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
...and weapons so large they couldn't possibly be wielded with those tiny wrists.

That's another fun part of sculpting at 25/28mm. A realistically thin weapon is going to bend or shatter with even careful handling. So weapons have to be beefed up just to survive being removed from the mould, packaging, and assembly.

Now when the wrists in question are even thinner than the weapon, at that point you're getting back into 'silly' again, so I agree with you there. That and Battle Lingerie.

But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

So in the days of lead, those pieces were steel? Obviously a no-no by today's safety standards. My elves have metal lances/spears that came unassembled with the spear heads in lead that had to be glued. These minis were pretty well made for elves. I'll have to post some pictures, of course you'll find some amount of puggishness to a degree.

So I don't know, is 25/28mm the future?

Also in regards to female minis, despite the fetishism were it would apply (i.e. 40k hedonists) even the "sexy" stuff we pointed out earlier is a considerable step up from the BDSM stuff that was put out in catalogs you couldn't show your mother in the days of yore.

I had some of those old lead minis, and thin weapons bending and breaking was a constant problem.

The piano wire spears were vastly more durable, yes. Sadly, I think they got banned somewhere along the line. I haven't seen them on anything in a good couple decades.

If you think the BDSM stuff is bad, you should see some of the custom stuff people make for Slaneesh Demons (shudder)...

1. Tactical Detritus.

2. Sculptor's lack of research/education. What I mean is grossly incorrect anatomy or poses that in no way represent movements that humanoid bodies would make (usually used in conjunction with or as an excuse for #1).

3. Event or Area exclusive miniatures with no alternate method of purchase. Con or Store exclusives are the primary culprits, although Kickstarter exclusives are becoming more prevalent, it seems to me.

 The Power Cosmic wrote:
Human-scale models with arm connections that block them from being kit-bashed onto any other model's torso. Going through this now with the Navy Breachers kit

So much this!

I got into miniatures because of the cross-compatibility of kits. Blending marines with Catachans with Empire with Zombies with WWII kits was my intro and is still my ideal situation. Oathmark/Frost Grave/Star Grave get this right but GW have lost this.

Necromunda kits seem to have different head and arm joint for each gang. I've not even touched my new Cadians yet for fear that what should be a fun exercise in building little army men will instead be a slog where head #63B can ONLY go onto body #294L.

GW's business is build on convincing us to but the same kit again and again to make armies, but when an infantryman has 12 parts that must be assembled correctly where is the fun in that?

The results can be stunning (looking at you BSF cultists) but the work is less and less worth it.

Intricate jigsaw puzzle models with lots of pieces spread across multiple sprues that ultimately lead to model that has no inherent options or posing possibilities, and that are incompatible with other minis from the same line (or even within the same kit).

EZ-Build stuff for starter sets is cool to do that, but nothing else should.

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 makeitorky wrote:


I really wish there were more miniatures of women that were like actually realistic. I know the topic is probably a dead horse, but sculpters, please go outside and look at real women! We don't look like sex dolls! Also, the fact that the vast majority of women miniatures are heels is just so frustrating.

Here are a couple of options:

Bad Squiddo

Oathsworn

Frost/Star Grave's female plastics are also ace. Wide selection, modular and cross compatible. And not a combat bra or tactical high heel among them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 JoshInJapan wrote:

 makeitorky wrote:


I really wish there were more miniatures of women that were like actually realistic. I know the topic is probably a dead horse, but sculpters, please go outside and look at real women! We don't look like sex dolls! Also, the fact that the vast majority of women miniatures are heels is just so frustrating.

Here are a couple of options:

Bad Squiddo

Oathsworn

Frost/Star Grave's female plastics are also ace. Wide selection, modular and cross compatible. And not a combat bra or tactical high heel among them.

Wargames Atlantic's cannon fodder line might also be a place to look, both the men and women are just in very basic jumpsuits and boots. And you can trade many of the parts between the kits.

 Vulcan wrote:
I had some of those old lead minis, and thin weapons bending and breaking was a constant problem.

The piano wire spears were vastly more durable, yes. Sadly, I think they got banned somewhere along the line. I haven't seen them on anything in a good couple decades.

If you think the BDSM stuff is bad, you should see some of the custom stuff people make for Slaneesh Demons (shudder)...

Yeah but Chaos stuff is to be expected, it serves 40k, the stuff I'm referring to was just someone's dark fantasy that creeped into minis at the time. Almost reminds of the original Diablo game where you could find names of baddies wouldn't fly in mainstream games these days.

Now, to your point I just did encounter porn browsing only-games minis website. And no it wasn't the wrong address, and then there's the pin-up stuff you can find on Etsy, and elsewhere. So I guess it's still out there, just more polished.

Werkrobotwerk wrote:

Wargames Atlantic's cannon fodder line might also be a place to look, both the men and women are just in very basic jumpsuits and boots. And you can trade many of the parts between the kits.

I didn't like the guns for Cannon Fodder but they mix well with the 'Grave lines.

> I really wish there were more miniatures of women that were like actually realistic.

Dungeon Saga has an androgynous elf, and I'd be up for more such miniatures. Let the player decide the gender of their character!

Anyway...

1. Mold lines.

2. Single-piece miniatures. I guess that's what they'd be called. (: Too many swords. Multi-piece miniatures where you can choose the weapon loadout means you can have a miniature that's closer to your character. I dislike conversions. Irritating to buy a miniature when it doesn't fit what I want. Eventually, I figure I'll get a 3D printer, but I already have a ton of mini's in the queue. Will seriously look at 3D printing when it can make inexpensive color miniatures...

3. Pre-assembled. Yes, I understand boardgamers are lazy ***** who can't even assemble an arm into socket, but pre-assembleds don't have the mold lines removed and can be a pain to paint.

I dont like multi part.
Very time consuming and for regimented units its pointless. Just realse some really well thought out poses with heads left off so we can change them around a bit.

Apaprently I misinterpeted this thread, I'll redo my thoughts on this..

-I don't like very thin bits that snap off post-paint because paint tends to errode plastic slightly making the thin bits even thinner. That's a serious gripe.
-I don't like AOS eyes, 40K Eyes are a lot more forgiving, AOS eyes are even hard to do when you use a needle (and painting with a needle isn't great to begin with.) under a spotlight-loop. It's almost as if actual Tardigrades sculpted the heads of AOS units their details are so ridiculously miniscule.
-probably said already in this thread but wrongly numbered bits on the sprue, it happens alot.
-the fact that you end up with a bitbox full of arms and heads, weapons and very rarely a leg.. but never any extra bodies to kitbash with. (I guess thats why greenstuff exists though)
-The ends of gunbarrels not being dented, so you either have to drill them or just paint a black dot on them for looking somewhat realistic, would be nicer if they actually had a hole/dent.
-Finecast. Will never ever buy that (again).

Thats it for me.

 TheBestBucketHead wrote:

 makeitorky wrote:

 Vulcan wrote:
But there is a market for it, so if that's what one is into, go ahead and indulge yourself. If it's not... well, there are other options out there as well.

The frustrating thing about that market, as a woman, is that it dominates the tiny production of female minis. Scantily clad, or just stark nude, figures seem to be the norm, not the exception. If that was reversed, I'd still be leery of those figures due to their perception of the female body, but I wouldn't be so nearly incensed at their preponderance.

Outside of a few small manufacturers, like Bad Squido (who I think do an amazing job), even the most normal female minis still often have boobplate armor, painfully tiny waists (where are your organs girl?!), and wear heels. I understand things need to be emphasized and such for the heroic scale, and I think Bad Squido does a good job there. They make minis with a larger bust, but don't emphasize it, their hips are normal, don't wear fetish clothing and, possibly most importantly, have faces that look like women.

Sorry for the ramble, I do see your point, I just wish checking mini sites for women wasn't such a wall of bikinis and nipples.

If you're not locked to 40k, Infinity has some really nice female models. There's a mix between soldiers, anime girls, and "anime" girls. Currently, my Nomads list is an even split between men and women, but none of the women are scantily clad, other than maybe Mary Problems, and the ones that are soldiers instead of support are armed and armored in the same ways as the men, and look really nice.
I think women in PacOceania use boob plate, but to a more reasonable degree than a lot I see.
Just don't look at the TAG pilots.

I would never have thought to consider Mary scantily clad. She's got a fully body suit and hoodie.

Infinity has a few questionable things in the backlog and every once in a while there's a Tech Bee, but they've really got a great selection of diverse characters and proportions across the range. Though I think a lot of companies are doing a better job in general, it has lead to the obvious "people don't notice the sculpt is female" effect at times. Warmachine has been doing this for a while, where there's usually a properly armored female sculpt in their units that people just don't notice.

 Vulcan wrote:
I had some of those old lead minis, and thin weapons bending and breaking was a constant problem.

The piano wire spears were vastly more durable, yes. Sadly, I think they got banned somewhere along the line. I haven't seen them on anything in a good couple decades.

If you think the BDSM stuff is bad, you should see some of the custom stuff people make for Slaneesh Demons (shudder)...

Minor side note, northstar miniatures (distributed in the US by brigade) makes (or at least did a few years ago) metal piano wire spears, and I believe bad squiddo even included them with the shieldmaidens I have.

As for things that bug me,
1 non-compatible arms on plastic sets
2 spindly pvc weapons, especially spears or too thin swords
3 too small metal connection points

Been assembling and painting some Archon miniatures of their Deuslair Sample Pack from the Dungeons and Lasers 5 KS (still going on) so I'm going to revise my annoyances.

1. Miniatures that could be generic but aren't. One of the samples is a wood golem. That's great, except there are four little guys stuck on it. So much for the druid summoning a golem.

2. Boardgame plastic. Archon's hobby miniature hard plastic is easily cut from the sprue, easily trimmed with the hobby knife, and easily filed, bye bye mold lines. Compare that to PITA softer plastic of boardgames.

3. IDK color scheme. Drives me nuts that I might be painting the miniature the wrong colors. But most mini's are shown as renders, so I'm indecisive. First world problems.

Dakka thread on D&L5 KS : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/990/797368.page

Lets see:-

1. Tiny connection points. A pain in the bum in plastic, but an absolute nightmare when working in resin or metal.

2. Hard to reach areas. I like to fully assemble my minis before painting, then you're left with bits of cape you can see but can't get to with a brush.

3. Poorly thought out seams. I'm one of those people who can never really disguise where I've glued two pieces together, so I prefer it when mini makers take this into account and try to place them along "natural" breaks (I'm looking at you Kingdom Death and your two part legs split right down the middle).