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I have a question regarding the Age of Technology and that question is, where did the British predominance have it's beginning?

Now I already realize the short answer is Games Workshop.

But that answer is rather unsatisfying from a lore perspective so I'm curious if there are any bits that support a British ascendancy. Personally I'm glad it turned out that way or 40K might just be another Judge Dred or something. I'm also not the best versed in British accents I understand some differences, but couldn't hope to name them all.

Now in regards to how your typical battlebro speaks, it seems people enjoy giving them that King James vibe, which is certainly suitable for a patriarchal epic. Still accents get a little more nuanced when you've got a multitude of audiobooks, shows, and fan made voice overs, which do feature more than British accents.

So what drew the Emperor to this neck of the woods? What happened to the present UK prior to AOT? Did it break up and reforge? did it outcompete its allies to become the top tier global superpower?

Do I have this all wrong?

What do you mean by "British predominance"?

If you're referring to the choice of British English options over American English options when subjects of the Imperium converse, I believe the material is following the Tolkien style "The language spoken by the subjects has been translated into a language the reader can understand, with approximately analogous cultural references." In other words, it sounds like British English due to being "translated" by British English speakers.

Neither High Gothic or Low Gothic are anything at all resembling modern English as spoken by anyone currently living.

What solkan said. Accents in 40k are probably doing the Tolkien thing. When we get an example of an accent sounding similar to a real-world accent, it's probably being used to convey a motif to us the audience. So Space Wolves sound scandinavian/russian because they're supposed to be viking themed. Nostromans are (I think) meant to sound Walachian because Dracula reference. Orks sound like british football hooligans to convey the idea that they're rowdy.

In cases where a faction comes across as british, it's likely because:
A.) GW is based out of Nottingham, so British accents are likely the "default" for the creators.
B.) Hollywood does that thing where when you want to make someone sound upper-crust or old-timey, you give them an english accent. And 40k is fully of factions that are meant to come across as upper crust and/or old-timey.

yhea, the British accents are being used as a cultural convention. they imply certain additional details, for example, a "posh" accent implies wealth and status, a "cockney" accent implies low social status, etc. it also draws on historical epics, and particularly Victorian era works and settings, and shakespear, to help invoke the proper gothic feels and tell us that this work is supposed to be seen though that "historical epic" lens, and the characters don't have modern sensibilities and we shouldn't hold them to our own moral standards

In comparison to the British range of accents, the other major accents in English don't carry the same set of social connotations. im not saying that (for example), a Tennessee accent doesn't have meaning in a fictional work, or a brooklyn accent, but the sterotypes associated with them dont help convey "character" in the same way, in the context of a historical epic/wannabe historical epic. their isn't a American accent strongly associated with heredity privilege and nobility, for example.

Many people sound British in GW audio dramas and games because GW is a company based in Britain.

Orks/Orcs sound like that because their culture is based crudely on British football hooligans.

The Emperor was born in Anatolia and lived most of his life in the Middle East and Asia. He is categorically not British.

 Gert wrote:
Many people sound British in GW audio dramas and games because GW is a company based in Britain.

Orks/Orcs sound like that because their culture is based crudely on British football hooligans.

The Emperor was born in Anatolia and lived most of his life in the Middle East and Asia. He is categorically not British.

Yeah, to add to that, the Imperial Palace is in the Himalaya mountains, with the Astronomicon sitting in what is strongly hinted at being hollowed-out Mount Everest.

Britain exists in the DAoT as 'Albia' and is noted for using fighting machines that resemble early-stage proto-dreadnoughts, and was so costly to defeat that the Emperor opted for a -succesful- diplomatic alternative instead, but it was by no means the most powerful or even domineering force during the wars of unity.

It's important to remember that in terms of culture, essentially nothing of Old Earth survived the collapse of humanity's interstellar empire and the subsequent Age of Strife. Tidbits of things remained albeit in massively warped ways that are only recognisable from an out-of-universe perspective. The works of Shakespeare are often misquoted and attributed to the poet Shakespire, for example.

 Gert wrote:
It's important to remember that in terms of culture, essentially nothing of Old Earth survived the collapse of humanity's interstellar empire and the subsequent Age of Strife. Tidbits of things remained albeit in massively warped ways that are only recognisable from an out-of-universe perspective. The works of Shakespeare are often misquoted and attributed to the poet Shakespire, for example.

Also, Malcador boasts that he has collected all of Shakespire's three plays

In one of the more poignant HH short story Malcador also explains that working against that sort of cultural loss of what makes humanity human is a task that is at least as important as beating the traitors, because these things work as a sort of metaphysical anchor that prevents entropy and Chaos just washing humanity away.

Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

I heard Malcador also has a Catholic Bible? and then I should consider all the primarchs come from different places.

 Adeptekon wrote:
Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

I heard Malcador also has a Catholic Bible? and then I should consider all the primarchs come from different places.

Malcador has a lot of stuff, the order he came from was gathering it as their primary mission. He owns the Rosetta stone too, and lots and lots of significant artefacts beside that.

One thing i'd like to see is a collection of short stories or even a novel about Malcadors secret police and agents during and immediately after the Heresy, especially after his death. The Astartes side of it and the Inquisition side will eventually get covered or is covered already, i'm longing to hear about the fate of his strictly mortal agents.

 Adeptekon wrote:
Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

Out of curiosity, why is that disappointing?

 Adeptekon wrote:
[snip]
But that answer is rather unsatisfying from a lore perspective so I'm curious if there are any bits that support a British ascendancy. Personally I'm glad it turned out that way or 40K might just be another Judge Dred or something. I'm also not the best versed in British accents I understand some differences, but couldn't hope to name them all.

[snip]

The other posters have covered everything else really well, but this bit jumped out at me. Dredd is a product of the UK comic industry but MC1 was deliberately set in the US. What did you mean?

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

I heard Malcador also has a Catholic Bible? and then I should consider all the primarchs come from different places.

Malcador has a lot of stuff, the order he came from was gathering it as their primary mission. He owns the Rosetta stone too, and lots and lots of significant artefacts beside that.

One thing i'd like to see is a collection of short stories or even a novel about Malcadors secret police and agents during and immediately after the Heresy, especially after his death. The Astartes side of it and the Inquisition side will eventually get covered or is covered already, i'm longing to hear about the fate of his strictly mortal agents.

That sounds like a perfect book or movie in the making.

Gert wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

Out of curiosity, why is that disappointing?

I kinda picture it as the future of Britain just as Tolkien was giving it the mythological past he thought had been stolen from it.

Flinty wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
[snip]
But that answer is rather unsatisfying from a lore perspective so I'm curious if there are any bits that support a British ascendancy. Personally I'm glad it turned out that way or 40K might just be another Judge Dred or something. I'm also not the best versed in British accents I understand some differences, but couldn't hope to name them all.

[snip]

The other posters have covered everything else really well, but this bit jumped out at me. Dredd is a product of the UK comic industry but MC1 was deliberately set in the US. What did you mean?

That's how much I follow JD (maybe I should edit that out of the OP for a better example) I just know I wasn't a big fan of Stallone's character or the more recent adaption.

 Adeptekon wrote:
I kinda picture it as the future of Britain just as Tolkien was giving it the mythological past he thought had been stolen from it.

Interesting. Could you elaborate further perhaps?

Eh.

40K is British. As is Warhammer. And going right back to its roots, the creators could’ve little suspected just how successful it would become. Because we’re talking 1980’s Britain.

I was a kid then. And barring a very select few Things (Dr Who, 2000AD and yes, Warhammer) All The Best Things seemed to come from over the pond. That Warhammer and 40K would assume it’s place amongst “well regard British Geek Media” seemed a real outlier

Finding it’s feet properly as it did in 2nd Ed (where more than just rules, but the background was properly rationalised and refined from the Rogue Trader era) set it on its current course, and by then, it’s British Idioms and Identity had become a core part of it.

This is of course all part and parcel of why I love the background, and indeed reading older books in the setting. It reminds me of how the U.K. was when I was a nipper. Dirty, falling apart and pretty damned Punk Rock. The same with why I love my 2000AD Ultimate Collection (140 hardbacks and growing!)

Gert wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
I kinda picture it as the future of Britain just as Tolkien was giving it the mythological past he thought had been stolen from it.

Interesting. Could you elaborate further perhaps?

It's all my association with Warhammer and British accents that were reinforced with me in games like Dawn of War, so no special insights other than media and knowing something about GW.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Eh.

40K is British. As is Warhammer. And going right back to its roots, the creators could’ve little suspected just how successful it would become. Because we’re talking 1980’s Britain.

I was a kid then. And barring a very select few Things (Dr Who, 2000AD and yes, Warhammer) All The Best Things seemed to come from over the pond. That Warhammer and 40K would assume it’s place amongst “well regard British Geek Media” seemed a real outlier

Finding it’s feet properly as it did in 2nd Ed (where more than just rules, but the background was properly rationalised and refined from the Rogue Trader era) set it on its current course, and by then, it’s British Idioms and Identity had become a core part of it.

This is of course all part and parcel of why I love the background, and indeed reading older books in the setting. It reminds me of how the U.K. was when I was a nipper. Dirty, falling apart and pretty damned Punk Rock. The same with why I love my 2000AD Ultimate Collection (140 hardbacks and growing!)

I think it did pretty good early on, Fantasy made a dent in my friend's pockets with miniatures, and the 1st edition RPG. I wasn't that big on Sci-Fi at the time though, at best I'd see stuff at the game shop or in catalogs, but that was about it. I held out quite a while on the background part beyond my initial trial run of the rpg, and later the Dawn of War game series in the mid '00s. I made an initial attempt to learn more about a decade ago, but kept on the backburner until I was starting to click on those youtube recs for 40k lore and after shadowing Dakka for ages from time to time figured what the hell.

*it also should be noted there was always someone I knew at work who either loved 40k or was trying to get me into it. And wow the stores that took over the old gameshops, it was basically like at point there were gameshops now there's just Warhammer shops.

They mention warlocks in the article. I'm hoping that this means warlock psychic powers will go back to being always-on squad buffs like they were in the past.

I'm also hoping that we see more leader abilities like the lieutenant's shoot/charge after falling back rule. I'd love to see more rules like that and fewer rerolls/kill-stuff-better rules. Although the lieutenant *Does* have a kill-stuff-better rule as well...

The way it's written, it sounds like characters won't be able to break off and/or attach to other squads mid-game like they could in the past. Should I be worried about this favoring some armies over others? There's a big difference between being able to hide a captain behind a bunch of intercessors versus hiding a farseer behind some dire avengers or guardians.

That also (seems to) mean that you can't have beatstick characters hide among non-melee units and then break off to go kill things on their own. My archon, for instance, often hangs out in a raider with some kabalite warriors, then hops out to go charge something. Under the new system, I guess I'd have to leave her unattached to the kabalites during deployment, but then she'd be exposed to shooting if the raider gets blown up (rather than hiding behind warriors)? I could always stick her with some incubi, but presently that would be overkill. Maybe the archon will get reworked to be more desirable in a supporting role with warriors?

I like the sound of the Lone Operative rule. We've seen a few similar rules in 9th, and it always struck me as a good way to represent sneaky characters. I could even see a similar rule making its way to non-character units. Let something like genestealers be untargetable outside of, say, 15".

Erm….think you got the wrong thread?

So now that the predominance of British culture and English language has been ruled out as the lingua franca in the 41st millennium, would people accept a 30 or 40k movie or series without predominantly British starring cast members?

No. Absolutely not

My thoughts exactly. It would have be an incredibly serious theatrical performance like we've not seen in this era to convince me that 40k isn't really British at this point.

It depends.
A Gaunt's Ghosts series without any Welsh or Scottish actors playing the Tanith Ghosts would be a mistake but a show about Catachans absolutely should be American casting.
The important thing for a 40k show/movie would be a requirement for the sort of acting caliber from HBO or evening BBC drama productions. The sort of experience that a lot of the main cast Star Trek actors have would be ideal.

Which I would hope happens.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Erm….think you got the wrong thread?

Wow. I'm not even in the right sub-section. How did I even manage that?

 Adeptekon wrote:
My thoughts exactly. It would have be an incredibly serious theatrical performance like we've not seen in this era to convince me that 40k isn't really British at this point.

Really? I can't imagine a serious British actor chewing through 40k dialogue.
Saturday morning cartoon VAs swearing by the power of Greyskull (by the Emperah!) or making weird snake-based puns and hissing seems much more in line with the quality I'd expect.

"Commissar Holt!"

Voss wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
My thoughts exactly. It would have be an incredibly serious theatrical performance like we've not seen in this era to convince me that 40k isn't really British at this point.

Really? I can't imagine a serious British actor chewing through 40k dialogue.
Saturday morning cartoon VAs swearing by the power of Greyskull (by the Emperah!) or making weird snake-based puns and hissing seems much more in line with the quality I'd expect.

"Commissar Holt!"

The Ultramarines movie had the likes of John Hurt and Terrance Stamp.

Voss wrote:
Really? I can't imagine a serious British actor chewing through 40k dialogue.
Saturday morning cartoon VAs swearing by the power of Greyskull (by the Emperah!) or making weird snake-based puns and hissing seems much more in line with the quality I'd expect.

"Commissar Holt!"

No more different from doing any other SciFi or Fantasy property.

The Fire Warrior game included voice acting from Brian Blessed, Jon Pertwee, Burt a wok, Peter Serafinowitz amd Sean Pertwee.

I think that famous british actors are more than happy to get stuck into 40k style lines


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:

Voss wrote:
Really? I can't imagine a serious British actor chewing through 40k dialogue.
Saturday morning cartoon VAs swearing by the power of Greyskull (by the Emperah!) or making weird snake-based puns and hissing seems much more in line with the quality I'd expect.

"Commissar Holt!"

No more different from doing any other SciFi or Fantasy property.

Indeed. Patrick Stewart and Sir Ian McKellan are two of our most famous Shakespearean actors, darling, downtcherknow.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Adeptekon wrote:
Thanks all for the input, that clears this up for me quite a bit. Although I'm so used to the Britishness of 40k, it's kind of disappointing to hear this.

It also gives me some pause about who might be cast for the movie/series.

It should definitely feel diverse in regards to the cultures represented, but without the "Shakespire" heh, I'm having a hard time reimagining this now.

I heard Malcador also has a Catholic Bible? and then I should consider all the primarchs come from different places.

Malcador has a lot of stuff, the order he came from was gathering it as their primary mission. He owns the Rosetta stone too, and lots and lots of significant artefacts beside that.

One thing i'd like to see is a collection of short stories or even a novel about Malcadors secret police and agents during and immediately after the Heresy, especially after his death. The Astartes side of it and the Inquisition side will eventually get covered or is covered already, i'm longing to hear about the fate of his strictly mortal agents.

Ok everyone... call me a neophyte, but I'm totally blown away by the following performance and admissions by Malcador:

(SPOILER ALERT):

 Flinty wrote:
The Fire Warrior game included voice acting from Brian Blessed, Jon Pertwee, Burt a wok, Peter Serafinowitz amd Sean Pertwee.

Uh ... not Jon Pertwee (he'd been dead a while before they started that game.) - but the actor whom followed him on Dr Who. Tom "googly eyes" Baker. Sean sounds enough like his dad on a good day, though.