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artific3r wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

Charax wrote:
The video is literally called "Battle on a new scale"

The units are represented by rectangles and squares the same proportion as Epic bases

We've had rumours of HH-themed Epic for a while now, and those rumours have been accurate about other things so far

At this point if you don't think it's Epic then nothing short of them screaming "It's Epic!" while physically pointing to an Epic model is going to change your mind. GW ain't subtle.

Battle on a new scale... that could mean a lot of things. The Horus Heresy Board game getting a modern version.

Square (used in Epic 1st and 2nd edition) and Rectangles (used in Epic 3rd and 4th edition) doesn't necessarily mean Epic. Again, Horus Heresy the boardgame had square cardboard chits for units. So, not a given that it is Epic.

Rumours, we'll rumours can be wrong as they are rumours.

Edit to add.

Epic Horus Heresy will also mean 3 games in the Horus Heresy setting, one of which will be stepping all over the toes of one.

Would Horus Heresy Board Game players be interested in "battling in a new scale"? Seems like a strange thing to highlight in a teaser.

The square bases, the long stick bases, the fact that they're specifically calling out Lords of War and Titan legions... literally every single detail points to Epic 30k.

What do you mean Horus Heresy Board gamers? That game had been out of print for decades!

If this alludes to a modern version of the old game it will have huge appeal to both miniature gamers who play GW games, and Boardgamers who play wargames. Look at how well the FFG games with the GW IP sold. They are a great way to expand the reach of the GW hobby. A lot of people who like the setting can't always play the various miniatures games for many reasons. A boardgame (which has a lower time and monetary investment) could be the thing that gets them. GW are always looking at ways to sell their very attractive IP, hence the sheer glut of none miniatures related paraphernalia we see.

Seeing as the original game has been unobtainable for such long time and the only table top games for Horus Heresy is with large models, using cardboard chits or something similar will be a whole new scale, also slthe 'whole new scale' could reference the scope of the game/engagement. The old Horus Heresy boardgame was about the war of Terra, so was very much about commanding legions and such.

Calling out things that are part of the Horus Heresy setting doesn't immediately say, Epic.

Your points all seem very speculative drawn from little evidence.

What we know is that GW are releasing something to do with the Horus Heresy and you can command Legion's.

If I am wrong and it is Epic Horus Heresy, I'll be very happy.

Care to make a bet?

It's epic:hh so obviously i consider bet as print money

Gw isn't subtle. They are firing it with 152mm howizer

Fun thing with new Epic?

Keeping it within that era?

Ullanor.

The very fightiest fight that ever fighted in the history of being fighty ever. With the very fightiest Orks.

tneva82 wrote:
Care to make a bet?

It's epic:hh so obviously i consider bet as print money

Gw isn't subtle. They are firing it with 152mm howizer

Care to show concrete evidence that it is Epic?

So far all we have is speculation about a very short video posted by GW.

Look, I know there is a massive love for Epic (which includes me), but hope can lead to disappointment. There is no point racing off with jubilant calls that Epic is back, when we have nothing to go on. Let us wait and see what it is. Because, right now as it stands it could be a lot of things.

 stonehorse wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Care to make a bet?

It's epic:hh so obviously i consider bet as print money

Gw isn't subtle. They are firing it with 152mm howizer

Care to show concrete evidence that it is Epic?

So far all we have is speculation about a very short video posted by GW.

Look, I know there is a massive love for Epic (which includes me), but hope can lead to disappointment. There is no point racingnoff with jubilant calls that Epic is back, when have nothing to go on. Let us wait and see what it is. Because, right now as it stands it could be a lot of things.

It’s….it’s no good….I feel the change coming on again…..nnrnrrrrrryyaaaaarrrrgh



Not only are we promised “War on a New Scale”, but look at the video. Then, if like me you have the privilege of owning old books or WD which featured 2nd Ed Space Marine and Titan Legions?

Regard the layout.



It’s….it’s Epic. All signs point to Epic. And I for one am super hype.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Care to make a bet?

It's epic:hh so obviously i consider bet as print money

Gw isn't subtle. They are firing it with 152mm howizer

Care to show concrete evidence that it is Epic?

So far all we have is speculation about a very short video posted by GW.

Look, I know there is a massive love for Epic (which includes me), but hope can lead to disappointment. There is no point racingnoff with jubilant calls that Epic is back, when have nothing to go on. Let us wait and see what it is. Because, right now as it stands it could be a lot of things.

It’s….it’s no good….I feel the change coming on again…..nnrnrrrrrryyaaaaarrrrgh



Not only are we promised “War on a New Scale”, but look at the video. Then, if like me you have the privilege of owning old books or WD which featured 2nd Ed Space Marine and Titan Legions?

Regard the layout.



It’s….it’s Epic. All signs point to Epic. And I for one am super hype.

I played Epic back in those days (fellow old git here), GW used pretty much the same square/Rectangle for a lot of their battle reports back then. Also note all the Circles used... which are absent from the video. Of people are using those shapes as proof, then the omission of the circles could also point to something else.

I want it to be Epic, I'm just not seeing anything that says Epic other than speculation from those who (like myself) want to see Epic return.

It’s clearly Epic.

Set during Heresy. ‘New Scale’. Command Legions.

Now. It may not be Epic quite as we know it, especially if they keep the Adeptus Titanicus models as the base scale (and I can’t see why they wouldn’t). But all of that positively screams Epic is making a return.

Well true 6mm scale works in epic just fine

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s clearly Epic.

Set during Heresy. ‘New Scale’. Command Legions.

Now. It may not be Epic quite as we know it, especially if they keep the Adeptus Titanicus models as the base scale (and I can’t see why they wouldn’t). But all of that positively screams Epic is making a return.

Between HH Epic being alongside other rumours that came true, and the recently censored WarCom AT article, I'm not sure what anyone else thinks this teaser could possibly be.

We're quite a way beyond 'speculation' at this point.

 xttz wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s clearly Epic.

Set during Heresy. ‘New Scale’. Command Legions.

Now. It may not be Epic quite as we know it, especially if they keep the Adeptus Titanicus models as the base scale (and I can’t see why they wouldn’t). But all of that positively screams Epic is making a return.

Between HH Epic being alongside other rumours that came true, and the recently censored WarCom AT article, I'm not sure what anyone else thinks this teaser could possibly be.

We're quite a way beyond 'speculation' at this point.

Yeah, we have literally everything but a official, word-for-word confirmation, but the mountain of circumstancial evidence is really hard to ignore. It contains teasers, unintentional stuff like the Titan bases, word from reliable rumourmongers... if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and so on.

Epic has been on everyone's mind since Aeronautica. It would be a bait and switch of incredible proportions for this not to be Epic.

Honestly, as a marketing device, this teaser absolutely nailed it. We're all talking about Epic now, but there is just enough ambiguity for it to be something else, which draws out the conversation. Keeps everyone talking.

If it isn't Epic, they screwed up, badly.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s clearly Epic.

Set during Heresy. ‘New Scale’. Command Legions.

Now. It may not be Epic quite as we know it, especially if they keep the Adeptus Titanicus models as the base scale (and I can’t see why they wouldn’t). But all of that positively screams Epic is making a return.

People clearly want it to be Epic, as it is now we have very little to go on

The current Horus Heresy game is scheduled to get assault Marines 2 years after initial release. Yet people are insisting that GW are going to launch a whole new game with a whole new scale of miniatures (6-8mm). They are already stretched as it, and very little of their product range sits outside of 28mm heroic scale.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a game format for Apocalypse scale games in the Horus Heresy setting.

There's no point discussing it. We should just WaIt AnD SeE if it's Epic when it comes out.

Well when I’m right?

You’ll all owe me £5 each.

Probably.

It’s not like I’ll remember, or even be able to legally enforce that debt I just invented.

But I’m gonna be super hype when it does come back, because I’ve got most of the existing rules lurking under my bed, just waiting for their time in the sun.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well when I’m right?

You’ll all owe me £5 each.

Probably.

It’s not like I’ll remember, or even be able to legally enforce that debt I just invented.

But I’m gonna be super hype when it does come back, because I’ve got most of the existing rules lurking under my bed, just waiting for their time in the sun.

Haha, I like your style.

If it is Epic, I think it is safe to say that all previous material will be not be compatible with it. Look at what happened to Aeronautica Imperialis,and more recently the news that WFB will go from 20mm to 25mm bases.

Also, all those old rules(you better have Epic 40,000 the best version of Epic) are still usable, so they can have their moment in the sun right now.

artific3r wrote:
Epic has been on everyone's mind since Aeronautica. It would be a bait and switch of incredible proportions for this not to be Epic.

Honestly, as a marketing device, this teaser absolutely nailed it. We're all talking about Epic now, but there is just enough ambiguity for it to be something else, which draws out the conversation. Keeps everyone talking.

If it isn't Epic, they screwed up, badly.

I think this is the way to look at it. How dumb would GW's marketing people have to be to set such expectations if it wasn't meant to be about Epic?

 Geifer wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Epic has been on everyone's mind since Aeronautica. It would be a bait and switch of incredible proportions for this not to be Epic.

Honestly, as a marketing device, this teaser absolutely nailed it. We're all talking about Epic now, but there is just enough ambiguity for it to be something else, which draws out the conversation. Keeps everyone talking.

If it isn't Epic, they screwed up, badly.

I think this is the way to look at it. How dumb would GW's marketing people have to be to set such expectations if it wasn't meant to be about Epic?

Chances are it wouldn't be marketing but mangers
And as for a scale about as dumb as the Diablo 3 team before the mobile game reveal or the managers in charge of the change over from Old World to Age of Sigmar

 stonehorse wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well when I’m right?

You’ll all owe me £5 each.

Probably.

It’s not like I’ll remember, or even be able to legally enforce that debt I just invented.

But I’m gonna be super hype when it does come back, because I’ve got most of the existing rules lurking under my bed, just waiting for their time in the sun.

Haha, I like your style.

If it is Epic, I think it is safe to say that all previous material will be not be compatible with it. Look at what happened to Aeronautica Imperialis,and more recently the news that WFB will go from 20mm to 25mm bases.

Also, all those old rules(you better have Epic 40,000 the best version of Epic) are still usable, so they can have their moment in the sun right now.

Ahhh, see…you say that. But.

Provided both sides are using the Current Models on the Current Base, but organised into Historical Units? The scale really doesn’t matter that much, as it grants neither side an advantage,

 Geifer wrote:

artific3r wrote:
Epic has been on everyone's mind since Aeronautica. It would be a bait and switch of incredible proportions for this not to be Epic.

Honestly, as a marketing device, this teaser absolutely nailed it. We're all talking about Epic now, but there is just enough ambiguity for it to be something else, which draws out the conversation. Keeps everyone talking.

If it isn't Epic, they screwed up, badly.

I think this is the way to look at it. How dumb would GW's marketing people have to be to set such expectations if it wasn't meant to be about Epic?

So the question of whether or not it's Epic boils down to, just how incompetent do you believe them to be?

 stonehorse wrote:
What do you mean Horus Heresy Board gamers? That game had been out of print for decades!

FFG had a version published back in 2010. But yeah, it ain't gonna be the big reveal from GW.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well when I’m right?

You’ll all owe me £5 each.

Probably.

It’s not like I’ll remember, or even be able to legally enforce that debt I just invented.

But I’m gonna be super hype when it does come back, because I’ve got most of the existing rules lurking under my bed, just waiting for their time in the sun.

Haha, I like your style.

If it is Epic, I think it is safe to say that all previous material will be not be compatible with it. Look at what happened to Aeronautica Imperialis,and more recently the news that WFB will go from 20mm to 25mm bases.

Also, all those old rules(you better have Epic 40,000 the best version of Epic) are still usable, so they can have their moment in the sun right now.

Ahhh, see…you say that. But.

Provided both sides are using the Current Models on the Current Base, but organised into Historical Units? The scale really doesn’t matter that much, as it grants neither side an advantage,

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, but rather how GW will deliberately change enough to try and invalidate older collections. Which makes sense from a business point of view. So you old rules won't be cross compatible... any new Epic models may also be so different that they are unusable with old Epic rules.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
What do you mean Horus Heresy Board gamers? That game had been out of print for decades!

FFG had a version published back in 2010. But yeah, it ain't gonna be the big reveal from GW.

Which has been out of print as well. It was a huge Coffin boxed game, managed to play it once, and it is good... but one that requires a few free hours to complete and a lot of space!

GW do now make their own Boardgames, Wargammer Quest, Betrayal at Calth, Warhammer Underworlds, etc. So if they were making a Horus Heresy boardgame, it would most certainly be a big reveal.

I think we’re both failing to communicate effectively

My point is that so long as Epic Models return? Provided both players use the same era models, any incarnation of the rules can be used for the game.

So a rescaling won’t matter that much.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I think we’re both failing to communicate effectively

My point is that so long as Epic Models return? Provided both players use the same era models, any incarnation of the rules can be used for the game.

So a rescaling won’t matter that much.

What if the new models are so radically different that it makes it virtually impossible to use them with old rules?

Could be entire Legions worth of models that come attached to a base?

What I am trying to say is that we have no idea of what is coming other than it being Horus Heresy, so it could figuratively be anything.

In that case? All in the painting. Or the basing.

Think original Boxed Bloodbowl, where for the contained teams, positions were denoted by base colour.

Ways and means my dude, ways and means!

Asking players to rescale old bases is ultimately a very "soft" way to pressure them to buy new models. Most players won't bother. It's not like the game's going to suddenly attract a massive tournament scene overnight, where strict standardization matters for balance purposes.

The better incentive will be to simply release better models. Who wouldn't want new and improved Epic-scale minis?

Mate. If you have the old models? You can get the old rules.

I happened to buy mine, but let’s face it, in the modern age, and as much as I don’t endorse it, there are other paths open.

The models are the thing most will be missing. Infantry in those days were super fragile, thanks to teensy tiny ankles.

 stonehorse wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s clearly Epic.

Set during Heresy. ‘New Scale’. Command Legions.

Now. It may not be Epic quite as we know it, especially if they keep the Adeptus Titanicus models as the base scale (and I can’t see why they wouldn’t). But all of that positively screams Epic is making a return.

People clearly want it to be Epic, as it is now we have very little to go on

The current Horus Heresy game is scheduled to get assault Marines 2 years after initial release. Yet people are insisting that GW are going to launch a whole new game with a whole new scale of miniatures (6-8mm). They are already stretched as it, and very little of their product range sits outside of 28mm heroic scale.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a game format for Apocalypse scale games in the Horus Heresy setting.

The most intensive part model wise for epic is probably the titans. Good news there, they’re all already out!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
In that case? All in the painting. Or the basing.

Think original Boxed Bloodbowl, where for the contained teams, positions were denoted by base colour.

Ways and means my dude, ways and means!

Ah no I think they mean a full warp spawned madness fight, where new epic is something like 3mm, with a large titanicus sized base representing a combined marine detachment with armour support - vs 5 giants on a stand.

Heresy is one of the few games that I think could get me into 3mm, but nah it's epic. More than that, current rumours even have it as being basically Epic Armageddon with different detachments.

It’s not over yet. Kill Team preview in 37 minutes.

And it’s looking a bit Inquisitorial.

Inquisition here we come.

Maybe the forces at the studio that think the Inquisition shouldn't be represented on the battlefield are finally losing/relenting.

 stonehorse wrote:
I want it to be Epic, I'm just not seeing anything that says Epic other than speculation from those who (like myself) want to see Epic return.

Seriously dude?

Using old style batrep cards, the "Command Legions" tagline, and the teaser video is called "Battle on a New Scale"?

The subtext has ceased being "sub" with this one.