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 Lord Damocles wrote:

 F.E.A.R. wrote:

There used to be a small number of Orks who worshiped Khorne and Nurgle in old lore, there were also Chaos Necrons. This was retconed as this honestly doesn't fit the factions. Orks can't be corrupted because they have no souls and they're under the protection of Gork and Mork and Necrons have always been anti-warp spaghetti.

Chaos Androids were not Chaos Necrons. They were their own unique thing which just happened to look similar. Androids were daemonically possessed metal skeletons built by Chaos Squats.

I'm talking about 7th edition Necron lore and not the Chaos Androids.

"The Daemon Prince Shukketh Voidmaw infects the tomb world of Vorketh with the taint of Chaos. Vorketh's regent awakens to find his crypts transformed, and his legions already locked in battle."

There is no clear state of Chaos Necrons, we don't know whether Vorketh found Voidmaw or CSM fighting his army, or Vorketh found Necrons tainted by Chaos fighting untainted Necrons.

Lucius coming back from a Necron is also Chaos magic. But I call that BS writing, one of the poorest writing things in 40K.

 Haighus wrote:


But when was it retconned? 40k lore is generally still valid unless explicitly stated to be different (and even then, can often be reconciled through unreliable narration, differing perspectives, or the vagaries of warp influence and time).

Those Chaos-influenced Orks are no longer mentioned, but I have never come across any newer lore stating that Chaos Orks do not exist.

Almost everything that's forgotten by GW is retconed.

Charax wrote:
people throw around the word "retcon" too freely these days when they actually mean "not mentioned within an arbitrary time period I choose to acknowledge as being valid".

Tell me if Sigmar is still canonically the 2nd lost Primarch and if we can still combine Warhammer and 40K mini armies and then I'll belive your statement that "retcon" is too freely used these days.

...when was Sigmar ever canonically one of the lost Primarchs, boyo?

Right... so not retconned, just old and not updated.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Votann have apparently have 'hardened souls.' Just making them immune off the bat to Chaos strikes me as cheap, and it doesn't make sense that a bunch of dwarf miners should be as Chaos-resistant as warriors personally sculpted by the Emperor.

Really? This is stupid. Should be susceptible to Chaos like normal humans. Just like Chaos Dwards in Fantasy.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
T'au have a small presence in the warp, making them not noticed by Chaos all that much. I really hope that this shifts over time in the lore as the T'au expand outward, as keeping them Chaos-free smacks of Mary Sue writing since they will be coming more and more into contact with the followers of Chaos.

There's actually a few examples of Chaos influence:
- Kais in Firewarrior.
- Firewarriors being overcome by Chaotic rage and charging marines in combat. I think this was from one of the rulebooks? Memory is hazy.
- Farsight and Khorne in his Arcs book.

So not 100% immune, but very resistant.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Orks have the waaagh energy, but that's still tapping into the warp. There have been examples of Chaos Orks, but given the Orks' relatively shallow motives, there should be whole clans at least partially succumbing to Chaos, even if they don't know that they are, given how Chaos abilities would give them many new ways to krump their enemies, as well as the Orks' general shallow nature of the warp. There actually is a story in which some Orks start worshipping an idol of a green creature, thinking that it's Gorkamorka, only for it to be a Nurgle talisman and for all of the Orks to be corrupted. More of this should be happening and Orks should be prime targets of the Chaos gods.

Pretty sure there use to be Chaos Orks in canon, but that's pretty old.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Eldar should have a good number of Chaos followers what with their super-bright souls, high psychic sensitivity and long history with Chaos. Absolutely all of them rejecting Slaanesh doesn't make sense either, and IMO there should be a noticeable number of them who just decide that the various Craftworld paths are too exhausting to maintain and too restrictive, that the effort to follow them isn't worth it, and that just giving in to Slaanesh is the easier choice. For the Harlequins, running from Slaanesh for thousands of years would get tiring, and it would make sense that some would just give up. Drukhari are like addicts who are trying to get sober from crack by smoking meth instead. They are Slaaneshi in absolutely everything they do, and it would be a very small and easy step for them to falter and throw off the few restrictions they hold themselves to. Eldar should also be susceptible to other gods. Tzeentch could appeal to their strong psychic nature, Nurgle might appeal to those who want to dull their strong bodily sensations and just give up entirely, while Khorne, as the enemy of Slaanesh, could appeal to some in that way as well as an attempt to regain their species' martial strength.

I always found this a missed opportunity. You'd think there'd be some kind of Dark Eldar worshiping the other gods for protection from Slaanesh. Even other kinds of Eldar in desperation. Such as having their spirit stones destroyed.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Mark you, the 2nd Ed Ork Codex is still on my buy list, and I’ve never read it before, so there’s a time period of Ork lore I can’t say I’m terribly familiar with.

Much like all the other 2e codices as I recall, Dok; cut out a lot of the 'extra' stuff in favour of a streamlined quick primer but didn't really actually invalidate much of it.

Jarms48 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Eldar should have a good number of Chaos followers what with their super-bright souls, high psychic sensitivity and long history with Chaos. Absolutely all of them rejecting Slaanesh doesn't make sense either, and IMO there should be a noticeable number of them who just decide that the various Craftworld paths are too exhausting to maintain and too restrictive, that the effort to follow them isn't worth it, and that just giving in to Slaanesh is the easier choice. For the Harlequins, running from Slaanesh for thousands of years would get tiring, and it would make sense that some would just give up. Drukhari are like addicts who are trying to get sober from crack by smoking meth instead. They are Slaaneshi in absolutely everything they do, and it would be a very small and easy step for them to falter and throw off the few restrictions they hold themselves to. Eldar should also be susceptible to other gods. Tzeentch could appeal to their strong psychic nature, Nurgle might appeal to those who want to dull their strong bodily sensations and just give up entirely, while Khorne, as the enemy of Slaanesh, could appeal to some in that way as well as an attempt to regain their species' martial strength.

I always found this a missed opportunity. You'd think there'd be some kind of Dark Eldar worshiping the other gods for protection from Slaanesh. Even other kinds of Eldar in desperation. Such as having their spirit stones destroyed.

The implication I always got from the Dark/Craftworld Eldar's relationship with Slaanesh and the warp is that because of the nature of Slaanesh's birth, she essentially has dibs on their souls. Or maybe she just enjoys tormenting them the most while the other Chaos gods are mostly indifferent--Khorne not caring where the blood flows, Eldar tech being advanced enough to even cure death, etc.

But Slaanesh seems to be a jealous chaos god when it comes to the Eldar, and as soon as they're vulnerable, she'll just slurp up their souls. No bargaining, no holding back. If she can take their souls, she will. So Dark Eldar get around it by feeding Slaanesh something in place of their souls, Craftworld Eldar get around it through rigid discipline and soulstones, Harlequins cheat, and so on.

So even if an Eldar were to open themselves up to the warp to worship another chaos god, Slaanesh slithers in there and slurps them up like a capri sun.

That's always been my take. Could be wrong--lord knows there seems to be a broken craftworld floating around whenever a writer thinks they need something spooky and cool, from a craftworld taken over completely by a GSC to a craftworld used to incubate Nurgle's latest shenanigans, but it would explain everything I've seen about their racial interactions with the warp. That and their inherent belief that they are in fact the superior species and turning to the worship of anything but proper Eldar gods is beneath them.

The superiority aspect definitely plays a part. The Drukhari have the usual arrogance of the Aeldari turned up to eleven, having long abandoned the remnants of their Pantheon in favour of self-worship. Even those who do feel spiritual lean towards the Dark Muses or Khaine but this is more a form of respect rather than worship, similar to how many Astartes view the Emperor. The Dark Muses are beings to aspire to, as worship is for weak fools dedicated to the old ways.

Again there’s a maturity to the entire Eldar species lacking in Humanity.

They know dealing with the Chaos Gods is a mugs game. Even if it’s an attempt to thwart Slaanesh, you’re just trading dooms, not avoiding.

Kin and Orks both have the benefit of a form of societal egalitarianism. They just don’t have the power struggles humanity does. Orks are satisfied with fighting, which their Gods endorse and encourage. Kin have tight familial bonds. Everyone is expected to pull their weight and do their bit, and they’re all happy to do so. That relative harmony is itself a shield against the Chaos Gods, as it reduces what they can tempt you with.

Altima wrote:

Jarms48 wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

Eldar should have a good number of Chaos followers what with their super-bright souls, high psychic sensitivity and long history with Chaos. Absolutely all of them rejecting Slaanesh doesn't make sense either, and IMO there should be a noticeable number of them who just decide that the various Craftworld paths are too exhausting to maintain and too restrictive, that the effort to follow them isn't worth it, and that just giving in to Slaanesh is the easier choice. For the Harlequins, running from Slaanesh for thousands of years would get tiring, and it would make sense that some would just give up. Drukhari are like addicts who are trying to get sober from crack by smoking meth instead. They are Slaaneshi in absolutely everything they do, and it would be a very small and easy step for them to falter and throw off the few restrictions they hold themselves to. Eldar should also be susceptible to other gods. Tzeentch could appeal to their strong psychic nature, Nurgle might appeal to those who want to dull their strong bodily sensations and just give up entirely, while Khorne, as the enemy of Slaanesh, could appeal to some in that way as well as an attempt to regain their species' martial strength.

I always found this a missed opportunity. You'd think there'd be some kind of Dark Eldar worshiping the other gods for protection from Slaanesh. Even other kinds of Eldar in desperation. Such as having their spirit stones destroyed.

The implication I always got from the Dark/Craftworld Eldar's relationship with Slaanesh and the warp is that because of the nature of Slaanesh's birth, she essentially has dibs on their souls. Or maybe she just enjoys tormenting them the most while the other Chaos gods are mostly indifferent--Khorne not caring where the blood flows, Eldar tech being advanced enough to even cure death, etc.

But Slaanesh seems to be a jealous chaos god when it comes to the Eldar, and as soon as they're vulnerable, she'll just slurp up their souls. No bargaining, no holding back. If she can take their souls, she will. So Dark Eldar get around it by feeding Slaanesh something in place of their souls, Craftworld Eldar get around it through rigid discipline and soulstones, Harlequins cheat, and so on.

So even if an Eldar were to open themselves up to the warp to worship another chaos god, Slaanesh slithers in there and slurps them up like a capri sun.

That's always been my take. Could be wrong--lord knows there seems to be a broken craftworld floating around whenever a writer thinks they need something spooky and cool, from a craftworld taken over completely by a GSC to a craftworld used to incubate Nurgle's latest shenanigans, but it would explain everything I've seen about their racial interactions with the warp. That and their inherent belief that they are in fact the superior species and turning to the worship of anything but proper Eldar gods is beneath them.

There's at least one story where a craftworld warlock gets possessed by a Lord of Change, and we see several cases of non-Slaaneshi chaos gods possessing/corrupting drukhari in the Path series. So eldar getting marked by other gods seems to be feasible. In the Jain Zar novel, there are also some Slaaneshi eldar that seem to still be alive/have souls using their own take on spirit stones.

So with all that in mind, maybe the trick is to simultaneously have some sort of protection from chaos (stones, living in the webway, being bound to Cegorach like the solitaires) and to also open yourself up to chaos in some way. Basically, have a way to get corrupted without getting fully possessed or eaten by Slaanesh in one go.

Been a while since I read the associated Codex, but aren’t Dark Eldar souls constantly being withered by Slaanesh’s influence, and the torture Fun Times are how they recharge their souls/get Slaanesh to snack on something else?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Been a while since I read the associated Codex, but aren’t Dark Eldar souls constantly being withered by Slaanesh’s influence, and the torture Fun Times are how they recharge their souls/get Slaanesh to snack on something else?

That’s my understanding, they feed the Beast to stop it eating them

Adepta Sororitas have their faith which is effectively some kind of psychic shield against corruption, in the current lore during Indomitus it’s actually quite powerful and reminiscent of the manifestations during the heresy.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Been a while since I read the associated Codex, but aren’t Dark Eldar souls constantly being withered by Slaanesh’s influence, and the torture Fun Times are how they recharge their souls/get Slaanesh to snack on something else?

Yes, basically. The older a Dark Eldar gets, the more they have to feed Slaanesh with either quantity or quality of souls. But all dark eldar get slowly drained.

Of course, there's a minor inconsistency with the Dark Eldar in that the haemonculus covens seem to have developed clinical immortality for the dark eldar--they can regenerate those who are willing to pay from as little as a hand. So even if a dark eldar is 'dead', they can be poof, back good as new. Unless they can't and it's a huge scam, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

No idea how this effects psykers, since the dark eldar hunt them down and murder/exile them almost without exception, and the only exception I'm aware of kind of cheated and has had some after market modifications done to her.

Altima wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Been a while since I read the associated Codex, but aren’t Dark Eldar souls constantly being withered by Slaanesh’s influence, and the torture Fun Times are how they recharge their souls/get Slaanesh to snack on something else?

Yes, basically. The older a Dark Eldar gets, the more they have to feed Slaanesh with either quantity or quality of souls. But all dark eldar get slowly drained.

Of course, there's a minor inconsistency with the Dark Eldar in that the haemonculus covens seem to have developed clinical immortality for the dark eldar--they can regenerate those who are willing to pay from as little as a hand. So even if a dark eldar is 'dead', they can be poof, back good as new. Unless they can't and it's a huge scam, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

No idea how this effects psykers, since the dark eldar hunt them down and murder/exile them almost without exception, and the only exception I'm aware of kind of cheated and has had some after market modifications done to her.

It also raises the question of clones and souls. Ok they can bring you back but slaneesh would have already eaten your soul wouldn’t they?

I believe that's part of their little tragedy. It doesn't really matter if they get transplanted into new bodies or if they sacrifice a million souls in place of theirs, eventually, She Who Thirsts gets their due and there's nothing the Drukhari can do about it.