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So it looks as though the plastic releases will be:
- Vindicator
- Knight Lancer
- probably another Spartan variant (unless ‘kings of war’ means a Fellblade)
- revised MkIII Marines, which look very Nurgle-y (damn - there goes my WiP SoH MkIII army)
- Deredo Dreadnought (because it’s in the artwork showing the new Marines)
- MkVI assault Marines (is it just me or do the designs look a bit…off?)
- a new army - no idea what that is
- Command Squad (sounds promising)
- separate melee weapons
And that takes us through to early next year.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
It won't be a Spartan chassis cos there aren't any left. It'll be The Fellblade chassis or something like a Thunderhawk. Maybe even more Knights because they are LoW.
I don't think the "Mystery army release" is a whole new army. There isn't really anything but Imperial Army left of the top of my head. It'll be something for a current army, maybe plastic Thallax or some other Mechanicum stuff.
The rescaled Mk III look to have longer legs and better proportions from the image.
I have 18 unbuilt, 2 testers painted, was just to start a IW squad, might just do support squads with these and wait for the bigger ones for my main squads then.
I don't think they look "Nurgle-y" at all. The SoH ones on the cover have DG/German ww1 style spikes on their helmets but without those they are standard Mk IIIs.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/30 17:58:53
The assault marine preview did look a bit unfinished, and I wonder whether that's accidental because GW needed to show something *now* to stem the questions about assault marines. Or whether they're wiser to the world of 3d prints and decided to put up a WIP that couldn't just directly be translated into third party prints?
The only other part of the preview I'm excited for is the deredo, I hope they do all the weapon options even if it's just as upgrade sprues.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/04/30 18:29:31
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
Lords of War are 100% the other Cearstus variants, if GW has done anything with HH it's maxing out on vehicle variants with the lowest possible investment in new sprues. Why tool 8 sprues for a Fellblade when they can tool 1 or maybe 2 and sell a Cerastus Castigator box.
Redone Mk3 is good news but everything is coming so late I'm gonna have it printed before then - I still prefer plastics, but GW has chosen to make building a legit HH army an excruciating experience.
Assault Squad, 3 seasons away, even worse, and looks off to boot. There's a great digital kit floating around already with the same style jump pack and sensible chests.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/04/30 20:29:06
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Outer Circle was one of the first Youtubers I watched when I got into HH. Despite some good content, his sneering and nerd-raging got too much for me (there is more than enough of that out there). I think everyone agrees the lack of plastic assault infantry has been a blunder; I don’t need this guy to tell me (and to hear him endlessly mispronounce ‘Horus’ as ‘Horace’).
Upgrading the Mk III models is a bit of an odd choice. They are better than the Mk IV (who are almost comically dumpy looking) and have been very popular. Maybe it was always part of the plan to re-do one of the most iconic Heresy armour types. I think I’ll still finish my existing Mk III SoH, having invested so much time in them, but I bet Mk III sales tank now they’ve shown their replacement.
Another variant of the Cerastus Knight does seem the most likely candidate for the new lords of war.
I must admit, the 2 new resin character models look very good. I may re-think my plastic-only approach, as the SoH have a couple of excellent models now.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
I hope that they've done the legs posable on the Knight Lancer otherwise it's a big step backwards model wise. Yeah the "Lords of War" releases will be the other Knight variants
Rolsheen wrote: I hope that they've done the legs posable on the Knight Lancer otherwise it's a big step backwards model wise. Yeah the "Lords of War" releases will be the other Knight variants
FWIW the Contemptor kept its posability when moved to plastic. Overall FW does a good job with these HH plastics, they're full of bits and things like older 40K models.
Snord wrote: Outer Circle was one of the first Youtubers I watched when I got into HH. Despite some good content, his sneering and nerd-raging got too much for me (there is more than enough of that out there). I think everyone agrees the lack of plastic assault infantry has been a blunder; I don’t need this guy to tell me (and to hear him endlessly mispronounce ‘Horus’ as ‘Horace’).
Upgrading the Mk III models is a bit of an odd choice. They are better than the Mk IV (who are almost comically dumpy looking) and have been very popular. Maybe it was always part of the plan to re-do one of the most iconic Heresy armour types. I think I’ll still finish my existing Mk III SoH, having invested so much time in them, but I bet Mk III sales tank now they’ve shown their replacement.
Another variant of the Cerastus Knight does seem the most likely candidate for the new lords of war.
I must admit, the 2 new resin character models look very good. I may re-think my plastic-only approach, as the SoH have a couple of excellent models now.
1. Don't make fun of peoples accent. That puts you in hot water faster than you can imagine.
2. He may be a saltmine (actually that is fairly inaccurate, he is quite balanced overall in regards to the hobby, probably more devoted to it than many of us), but one that actually worked with the plastic industry and as such is valuable or would be a valuable critical voice if gw would listen and the consumers. And instead of just putting him on a pile with other "grognards" unfairly putting your head in the sand and letting Gw get away with nonsense once again, as many do in the hobby, maybee just take it as a critical take from a person you may not like. That however doesn't change the fact that he is right in this case.
3. MK III was entirly not necessary, respectivly would be better recieved if we'd get them and the assault squads at the same time and not stretched out. The community doesn't need more tacticals, the community needs the core of the armies in plastic and that includes command squads, terminator weapons and of course assault marines and even breachers / recons, which would skyrocket immediatly availability and by extention would actually lower the barrier to entry for most people so significantly that we'd not be stagnating as we do right now.
Edit: MK III marines seem to have their reddot / Sensor/ Scope lower than the frontsight of the boltgun... so basically the reddot/ sensor/Scope is not usefull at all... unless you cut away either the frontsight or the reddot...
4. The knight (and especially the lancer) is probably the worst thing they could release in the close future in regards to relevancy. It only makes sense if the designers want to bamboozle the accountants by producing a product that will get cross sales for a fringe faction in order to get more projects greenlit. But even then there would've been far better choices for units to do so, f.e. moirax, biger bots of the 30k admech, admech tanks, etc. Which would take advantage of far larger player populations to boost sales.
5. YMMV but the new resin charachters being once again IF and SoH and only the later really being a main acteur in the HH compared to IF which basically sit on the palace and do nothing really yet again getting prefered treatment over a whole slew of legions is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/05/01 08:02:44
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
1. Don't make fun of peoples accent. That puts you in hot water faster than you can imagine.
Perhaps, but I have the same accent as he does, more or less. It’s a mispronunciation.
2. He may be a saltmine (actually that is fairly inaccurate, he is quite balanced overall in regards to the hobby, probably more devoted to it than many of us), but one that actually worked with the plastic industry and as such is valuable or would be a valuable critical voice if gw would listen and the consumers. And instead of just putting him on a pile with other "grognards" unfairly putting your head in the sand and letting Gw get away with nonsense once again, as many do in the hobby, maybee just take it as a critical take from a person you may not like. That however doesn't change the fact that he is right in this case.
‘Salt’ is a euphemism for sneering, and I don’t find him balanced. He’s certainly passionate about HH (provided it’s ‘his’ version of the game), and certainly he’s made many valid criticisms. But he routinely overstates his case. And states (strongly-held) opinions as facts. And derides decisions he doesn’t agree with as the product of incompetence or bad faith. Which is really just nerd-raging, of which there is way too much on the internet. Unfortunately, it’s ultimately a negative experience listening to his vids.
3. MK III was entirly not necessary, respectivly would be better recieved if we'd get them and the assault squads at the same time and not stretched out. The community doesn't need more tacticals, the community needs the core of the armies in plastic and that includes command squads, terminator weapons and of course assault marines and even breachers / recons, which would skyrocket immediatly availability and by extention would actually lower the barrier to entry for most people so significantly that we'd not be stagnating as we do right now.
Agreed. I think something went wrong somewhere. The fact that assault infantry are still at such an early design stage is really puzzling. And new Mk IIIs will invalidate a lot of people’s models (if they care about having them rendered obsolete).
4. The knight (and especially the lancer) is probably the worst thing they could release in the close future in regards to relevancy. It only makes sense if the designers want to bamboozle the accountants by producing a product that will get cross sales for a fringe faction in order to get more projects greenlit. But even then there would've been far better choices for units to do so, f.e. moirax, biger bots of the 30k admech, admech tanks, etc. Which would take advantage of far larger player populations to boost sales.
I dunno if it’s a poor choice - I have no interest in knights, but plenty of others do. And it looks like a nice model. I’d have preferred AdMech too; hopefully that’s the mystery army.
5. YMMV but the new resin charachters being once again IF and SoH and only the later really being a main acteur in the HH compared to IF which basically sit on the palace and do nothing really yet again getting prefered treatment over a whole slew of legions is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.
Sure. I want customisable plastic kits, not chapter-specific resin. I just liked these 2.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/01 08:16:38
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Agreed. I think something went wrong somewhere. The fact that assault infantry are still at such an early design stage is really puzzling. And new Mk IIIs will invalidate a lot of people’s models (if they care about having them rendered obsolete).
I agree, but the question is if they could have rectified that any sooner, provided the original mistake was done and recognized shortly afterwards. It may well be that their production plans are so inflexible once they committed to them that damage mitigation by rushing the Assault Squad to the earliest possible spot and revealing that they're coming to stop speculation and fan rage is the maximum of what is possible for them, under their technical, managerial and contractual constraints, that we're only dimly aware of if at all, and we're seeing the fastest reaction they could make. We just don't know, and neither do angry youtubers.
Just a couple of weeks ago, people on this very forum argued, with 100% ironclad, rock-hard conviction that the game is dead, will get no more support, will die this year, will be cancelled in favor of TOW and other such things, and now look at the roadmap...
• "More Lords Of War" = Knight & Spartan chassis variants
• "New Army" = Plastic AdMech
• "New Armour Mark" = redesigned MKVII or just the MKIII shown in the stream
DISCLAIMER: SPECULATION!YMMV
I'm most interested to see what the "Assault Weapons" and "Command Squad" will turn out to be. Assault Weapons could point to a upgrade kit for the upcoming Assault squad kit. Command Squad might also just be an upgrade kit for kitting out tac squad models into a Command squad, as HH sprue designs like to be stingy like that.
If I think about long term, GW's play might be to try to maximize the compatibility of upgrade kit bits across the various armour marks in HH. Otherwise their commitment to creating a bunch of special & heavy weapon kits doesn't line up with the overall stingyness of HH sprue allocations. The new MKIII shown suggest compatibility with the weapons upgrades. So this means the Assault weapons & Command squad kits might end up being intended for several armour marks as well.
Deredeos coming to plastic is great! I think I need to sell my resins now while they are still the only option. If the superb posability of plastic Contemptors sets a precedent, the new Deredeo plastics will be a significant step up for modellers (And my autocannon barrels will not bend hehehe)
Lastly, speaking of the Assault Squad kit, I hope those renders were early stage WIP's. Not only did they ditch the RT era jump pack look (boo!), the chestpieces look ridiculous. Thankfully, neither will be a showstopper for me even if they end up on the final models, as long as FW still sells resin MKV Jump Packs and the chest pieces remain easily convertible (as is the case with 2022 MKVI tacs)
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2023/05/01 08:57:48
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Just a couple of weeks ago, people on this very forum argued, with 100% ironclad, rock-hard conviction that the game is dead, will get no more support, will die this year, will be cancelled in favor of TOW and other such things, and now look at the roadmap...
Well I argued that we won't see any more HH plastics until fall and I was right on that (we already knew about the Vindicator and I insist the Cerastus is a 40k release)
Thankfully looks like TOW is a lot further out than I expected, so we get to squeeze in a few more kits in the following half year, but we might be sharing production lines with Epic by that point. You have to agree the roadmap for the next 12 months is a lot sparser than the previous 12.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/01 08:53:00
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Just a couple of weeks ago, people on this very forum argued, with 100% ironclad, rock-hard conviction that the game is dead, will get no more support, will die this year, will be cancelled in favor of TOW and other such things, and now look at the roadmap...
Well I argued that we won't see any more HH plastics until fall and I was right on that (we already knew about the Vindicator and I insist the Cerastus is a 40k release)
Thankfully looks like TOW is a lot further out than I expected, so we get to squeeze in a few more kits in the following half year, but we might be sharing production lines with Epic by that point. You have to agree the roadmap for the next 12 months is a lot sparser than the previous 12.
Depends on how many kits we're talking about for the 'mystery army release' and 'more Lords of war', that could (theoretically) each be half a dozen kits. Unlikely, but possible. If the 'new army' has a vehicle, an infantry kit and something heavy like Thallax or Castellax that's quite sizeable, and if the LoWs contain both the Knight variants and the Fellblade+ variants that's a lot of stuff as well.
That's a lot of if-s. Why are we even still mentioning the Fellblades? Fellblades were heavily speculated because they were removed from the store. Now they're back with retooled resin hulls, why would they go to the effort of doing that if they were going to replace them again within half a year? No sir, zero chance of Fellblades. Based on previous releases you're looking at the minimum investment possible to claim a new Lord of War release - and that would be Cerastus variants. Or if they invent a new gun for the Spartan hull.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/01 09:01:30
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Yeah, okay, i give up, a reasonably full roadmap for the next year, including a whole new army and sizeable plastic kits for both infantry and vehicles clearly means the game is dying and we're just witnessing the final deathtroes before it all comes crashing down. That's very sane and logical, and not at all motivated reasoning driven by some sort of pet peeve. Cheerio, have a nice day.
I don't think salty and sneering are remotly the same in quality one is argoance incarnate and one is desilusion and disapointment. I also think you are giving him way too little credit considering that his youtube is only one of his social media.
Also if you are in search of an "experience" ehh.. fair enough.
Anyways i think they didn't think HH would sell at all, underestimating completly that an oldschool well worked over ruleset would have a draw from a lot of people and not just those desilusioned with modern 40k (8th onwards.) but rather a lot of people that dropped out by 6th and 7th.
Frankly as you stated something must have gone wrong in their planning, or alternativly someone made a gamble if it would sell or not. And won the bet by such a margin that now GW struggles to propperly incorporate it within its release schedules. Respectivly they decided that it wouldn't do so well anyways and skimped on the design time by avoiding making plastic infantry since the vehicles are easy sells regardless for 40k so even if HH doesn't take off the kits would get sold.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/01 10:00:48
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
The heavy investment in plastic tanks doesn’t support the theory that they didn’t expect HH 2.0 to succeed. The Kratos, for example, is not the kind of kit that would be produced for a system that was likely to fail. But maybe it exceeded expectations - and perhaps they underestimated the number of players looking to escape from 9th Edition 40k. They also seem to be struggling with production capacity - perhaps there’s a design bottleneck as well.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
This is a good move by FW/GWimo.
I much prefer some advance warning on what i need to have available by when.
Got to boggle for a bit on why the feth they decided to do a plastic CIK.
I actually want a plastic storm eagle assault gunship kit.
Those things are a Tzeechian torture device in resin.
Australian complainer has a point about what a player can use should drive the release schedule.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
I don't think salty and sneering are remotly the same in quality one is argoance incarnate and one is desilusion and disapointment. I also think you are giving him way too little credit considering that his youtube is only one of his social media.
Also if you are in search of an "experience" ehh.. fair enough.
Anyways i think they didn't think HH would sell at all, underestimating completly that an oldschool well worked over ruleset would have a draw from a lot of people and not just those desilusioned with modern 40k (8th onwards.) but rather a lot of people that dropped out by 6th and 7th.
Frankly as you stated something must have gone wrong in their planning, or alternativly someone made a gamble if it would sell or not. And won the bet by such a margin that now GW struggles to propperly incorporate it within its release schedules. Respectivly they decided that it wouldn't do so well anyways and skimped on the design time by avoiding making plastic infantry since the vehicles are easy sells regardless for 40k so even if HH doesn't take off the kits would get sold.
I'd say the assault Marines are a similar case like Plastic SOB with GW simply not knowing what people would like to see specifically, even when they do invest in a product line. And just like in the SOB case they need 1,5years until they have a finished product.
FW tanks were the obvious thing for them since they could double dip with 40K and had quality problems that even damaged the FW brand.
In the same way I'm sure a Plastic thunderhawk is on some flipchart somewhere in GWHQ, but it's just too damn large of a kit
I have been unironicly waiting for Inquisitorial Henchmen to go back on sale since the release of 'Tempest'
All i need is 8 grende launcher special weapons but i'm not paying an ebayer £36 per model for recasts of them...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Not Online!!! wrote: Anyways i think they didn't think HH would sell at all, underestimating completly that an oldschool well worked over ruleset would have a draw from a lot of people and not just those desilusioned with modern 40k (8th onwards.) but rather a lot of people that dropped out by 6th and 7th.
I'd argue the opposite considering how many products regularly go out of stock on the GW webstore. Heresy social media groups are still picking up and the place I game at has seen a fair few people ask questions or express interest about the game when I'm there with friends.
Obviously, I have no sort of hard data to say how many people are playing the game or buying what kits because that would be silly. But GW isn't going to redo a system with the level of investment we've seen with HH and expect it to fail, the company just doesn't do well when a system exceeds expectations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/01 11:40:15
(we already knew about the Vindicator and I insist the Cerastus is a 