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 Grot 6 wrote:
Didn't they learn the hard way from Cursed City? .

learned what? That people play their games no matter what and that a mistake that would bankrupt any other company leads to record profits for GW?

They learned the hard way that their sales models work and the goodwill of the community will compensate any negativity

 flaherty wrote:

 tauist wrote:
It's been over 10 hours since the latest Warcry box went on preorder, still not sold out.. Either Warcry is a lot less popular than KT21, or something is off with GW's production capacity..?

You can still get 4 of the 6 AoS Christmas bundles on 3rd party sites, not to mention the 3rd edition launch box for nearly 50% off!

I like AoS, think the models are some of the best GW produces, but it seems like it's 1/10th as popular as 40K. It must be meeting their targets given they're reviving the old world and seem to be investing in big refreshes, but it's striking how the product just sits. I think the comment about the KT teams being pretty close to 40K units while AoS has oddball chaff makes sense, but it's not like Arbites or Beastmen or even the Votann specialists would be usable in 40K.

From anedcdotical evidence this checks out, for example the 40k stream at Warhammerfest had over 300.000 live viewers, while the AoS stream had less than 25k, and the Underworlds/WarCry stream had about 7500 at the time i checked it. That's of course not exactly hard data, and 40k was the 'main event' this year, which surely boosted viewership, but i suppose the true factor lies at least in the ballpark of one order of magnitude.

If KT21 is selling 10 times as much as Warcry, GW should be making 10 times as many boxes as well.. But GW Finland getting 1 Gallowfall box and all the local FLGS getting zero boxes does not indicate this would be the case

 tauist wrote:
If KT21 is selling 10 times as much as Warcry, GW should be making 10 times as many boxes as well.. But GW Finland getting 1 Gallowfall box and all the local FLGS getting zero boxes does not indicate this would be the case

Realistically, we have no idea what's happening in their internal production slot allocation. They said that they're producing extreme amounts of Leviathan; that this impairs their production of other stuff is a reasonable assumption to make, but it already isn't a fact. There are just too many possibilities beyond that: popularity of the games, unrelated problems with third-party suppliers for e.g. printed products or parts of products, and so on.

All we know is that KillTeam demand goes unmet, and WarCry demand apparently does not. If we're hyper-optimistic we could even conclude that we're now moving out of the releases that were hampered by dedicating so much machine time to Leviathan, but then again this would be pure speculation.

I do recall the overwhelming sentiment when the second box this season was released was "what's the point in getting more of the same scenery?" as you only ever needed one set for KT and two for boarding actions.
"I'll just wait for the individual team releases instead" was a common refrain.
I dunno, maybe GW *did* listen. I do wonder if the demand for boxes is primarily being driven by people wanting the stuff now, or because they may aswell as its essentially the same price as getting the two teams/unique terrain/book separate, but will more free Gallowdark hulls.
No one is really missing out on much. The only people who really need this box are folk who want to get into this season of KT and didn't grab any of the previous boxes.

There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.

 Geifer wrote:

40k is bigger than AoS, but it also has more history. It's easy to sell Kill Team boxes just like Blackstone Fortress on the strength of oddball units that haven't had models or dedicated rules since the Nineties, but that are prominent enough in the fluff that people have spent years or even decades wanting to see them in miniature form (again).

AoS doesn't have that. I reckon the closest you'll come is if a Warcry box was the first release of Malerion elves. That might be a comparatively big seller since people have basically been waiting for that since day one. Sigmarines and Flesheater Courts aren't bad for what they can provide to their respective armies, but old heroes in new armor and a handful of extra models for an army starved for new models doesn't seem like it has wider appeal.

Pretty much what I wanted to say, I just want to add that you can also get some of the oddball 'units' from Underworlds for AoS, which means AoS has one additional, reliable avenue for unique/flavorful sculpts for factions than 40k.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.

That assumes they actually pay artists. This is anecdotal evidence only, but a Magic player I used to game with is a freelance artist, and since he was not one of the big names, would periodically get shafted by his employers. These were usually smaller game companies, many of whom were trying to produce the next Magic: The Gathering in the late 90's/early 00's.

Now as GW is big, they probably do pay their artists. Just not that much as many artists would want to work for them, even if only to boost their resume and portfolio for the long-term. So the market situation favors GW and they can lowball their hires.

As for Warcry ... While I'm not keeping up with the current edition, I bought the prior edition because I liked the oddball, one-off figures. I liked that the first mortal Chaos gangs were often multi-species, united by their understanding of a given facet of Chaos. Now that does not necessarily work for Kill Team, as certain factions should be uniform, but groups like the Inquisitorial Agents and Rogue Traders should be motley and eclectic. So I'd like to see more individualized sculpts for KT. They could be used as character models in 40k.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are products other than Kill Team being significantly underprinted. Some weird assumption about diminishing demand also doesn't explain why even go to the trouble of spending resources to design a product if you're going to print less than 1 box per store. At that point you're probably making a loss on just commissioning the box art.

That assumes they actually pay artists. This is anecdotal evidence only, but a Magic player I used to game with is a freelance artist, and since he was not one of the big names, would periodically get shafted by his employers. These were usually smaller game companies, many of whom were trying to produce the next Magic: The Gathering in the late 90's/early 00's.

Now as GW is big, they probably do pay their artists. Just not that much as many artists would want to work for them, even if only to boost their resume and portfolio for the long-term. So the market situation favors GW and they can lowball their hires.

As for Warcry ... While I'm not keeping up with the current edition, I bought the prior edition because I liked the oddball, one-off figures. I liked that the first mortal Chaos gangs were often multi-species, united by their understanding of a given facet of Chaos. Now that does not necessarily work for Kill Team, as certain factions should be uniform, but groups like the Inquisitorial Agents and Rogue Traders should be motley and eclectic. So I'd like to see more individualized sculpts for KT. They could be used as character models in 40k.

That's the upside of professionalism: GW wants to have an ironclad paper-trail documenting that they acquired all relevant rights to use certain artwork in perpetuity (which they often failed to do in the past, when they were more hobby-like in their dealings, with bad consequences) so they do everything by the book and document it, but for the artist that means that you also have everything in writing and triplicate, which makes being stiffed on your payments or even royalities a very remote possibility. You'll only get what's in the black and white, but that you can be sure of.

Ashes of Faith preorders next week

How much unburned faith does a GW fan have left?

Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?

I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!

So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish

 tauist wrote:
Ashes of Faith preorders next week

How much unburned faith does a GW fan have left?

Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?

If we cant know how few copies will exist for this box, seeing the numbers will at least give us some "pain factor" to look forward to..

Easily, it's a box of Accursed Cultists + a Dark Commune + Chaos Cultists + a SoS squad + a Tempestus Scions squad + whatever the Inquisition KT retails at.

So 42.50€ + 42.50€ + 40€ + 45€ + 35€ + 50€ (most typical) = 285€ just for the miniatures.

Christ, wasn't the other box like two weeks ago?

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Christ, wasn't the other box like two weeks ago?

Yes, but there's no evidence that the Gallowfall release actually happened (outside of ebay "scammers" LOL)

I feel like there's an untapped market for "GW preorder shortcuts! Guaranteed!" guidebooks...

Also feels like Ashes of Faith was meant to come out sooner.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I feel like there's an untapped market for "GW preorder shortcuts! Guaranteed!" guidebooks...

Also feels like Ashes of Faith was meant to come out sooner.

It's a release that does not feel like it really fit in anywhere, agree. Other people mused that it might have been meant as a box for BSF or a BSF sequel originally, but i doubt that.

Probably plenty of stock on this one to go around...

 tauist wrote:
Ashes of Faith preorders next week

How much unburned faith does a GW fan have left?

Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?

I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!

So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish

If the box was all new content, I think I wouldn't mind paying the €140 something. But with only three new sprues (whooping six sculpts), a kit that's been on two boxed sets lately (the chaos cultists on Boarding Patrol and on the one with the Dark Angels), and two old kits (Sisters are still good, I think, but the Tempestus are showing their age)... I mean it might seem like it's a good deal, but that's assuming they're worth what GW is selling them for when (for me at least) they're really not.

I wonder how many seconds will this last on the webstore

What's on that transfer sheet in the Ashes box? The red shapes almost look like Space Wolf heads.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
What's on that transfer sheet in the Ashes box? The red shapes almost look like Space Wolf heads.

Yeah, that's a weird one.. From what I read, this set of transfers is the only one GW has made which has SoS stuff on it. It's from some old box.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
What's on that transfer sheet in the Ashes box? The red shapes almost look like Space Wolf heads.

They are Space Wolf heads...

It says "Horus Heresy Transfer Sheet 2". There's also Thousand Sons transfers up top.
Guess it's Burning of Prospero's transfer sheet?

 Kanluwen wrote:

They are Space Wolf heads...

It says "Horus Heresy Transfer Sheet 2". There's also Thousand Sons transfers up top.
Guess it's Burning of Prospero's transfer sheet?

Oh, wow. Guess I'll have to wait a little longer for some Inquisition transfers.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Guess it's Burning of Prospero's transfer sheet?

Yep - it's the one the SoS box comes with - "This kit comprises 67 components, and is supplied with 5 Citadel 32mm Round bases and a Burning of Prospero transfer sheet."

Space Wolf transfers? LOL.

I do wonder how much this box will actually cost.

 Destrado wrote:

 tauist wrote:
Ashes of Faith preorders next week

How much unburned faith does a GW fan have left?

Also, as a fun arithmetic, can we calculate prices for the content when buying individually? Would be nice to have concrete figures of the savings of this box compared to evetual retail.. If we assume that the entire contents of the cultist side + books + accessories is needed to play?

I'd wager the campaign book will be around 35€? Cards & Accessories 20€? 3 Cultists kits (Accursed 42,50€, Dark Commune 42,50€, Cultists 40€ = 125€.. so we're looking at a minimum pay-to-play at around 180€ in individual purchases if we miss out on the box.. which jumps to 35€ + 45€ + 50€ = 130€ .. 130 + 180 = 310€!

So, if this box happened to be priced around 140-150€, it will cost close to 300€ to buy the items individually.. Yeah, not into spending 300€ just to get the stuff in this box, I'm either going with the box or just the bare essentials later @ 180€ish

If the box was all new content, I think I wouldn't mind paying the €140 something. But with only three new sprues (whooping six sculpts), a kit that's been on two boxed sets lately (the chaos cultists on Boarding Patrol and on the one with the Dark Angels), and two old kits (Sisters are still good, I think, but the Tempestus are showing their age)... I mean it might seem like it's a good deal, but that's assuming they're worth what GW is selling them for when (for me at least) they're really not.

Only KT21 Season launch boxes have 100% new stuff, most other boxes are always recycling kits.

As for the Scions, agreed, the models have those outdated proportions. I was thinking of kitbashing them with either NuCad or Kasrkin torsos, just using the heads, arms and wargear, should be a considerable improvement.

As for "might seem like a good deal", that's a term I associate with GW rarely tbh. Age Of Darkness was a good deal, Indomitus was a good deal, most other boxes notsomuch. All in all, when it comes to GW, the prices always seem a bit expensive to me, but not so expensive as to price me out from the hobby

The intersection of people who love the Inquisition, want but do not yet own the new Cultist models, and who also need exactly 5 Scions and 5 Sisters of Silence might be small (though not as small as I first thought), but I think that as a proof of concept for narrative boxes that it works well and is of a lower risk than going the whole hog with a full suite a new miniatures.

I've put down with one of the stores I use for a box. Finger's crossed GW allocates more than 1 and a half sets to Australia.

I would like one, but I expect not to get it.
Not worth the effort honestly I think to go to other stores.

I would normally be well up for the new KT box - KT has been crying out for some INQ content.

I just can't get excited for a box there's absolutely no chance of me getting hold of. I've missed out on the last 3 killteam boxes and I'm still waiting on a box of Kasrkin I ordered months ago.

not being able to get online until 11 am due to working a saturday morning basically rules out killteam for me.....

Ashes of Faith is €125 £95 $160

Compared to individual kit prices, that's not bad at all.