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Even if KT, the game itself, was on life support, the boxes are still selling like hotcakes. With a few exceptions, they've mostly been knocking it out the park since Moroch.

Well, here in Poland KT is thriving. It's big WH40K, not to mention AoS that are struggling.


As for the new set, I think putting 10 Scorpions in the box, when you will never use more than 8 (and even this is going to be a cornercase scenario) and not providing any other Aspects at the same time is a pretty gakky practice as far as being consumer friendly is concerned.

Aspect mini-stratagem seem fine. I guess ot will require some tedious bookkeeping/heavy token use, but the range of options and choices with every activation seems cool. I just hope this wealth of options won't result in extra analysis paralysis amongst Eldar players 😉

Cyel wrote:
As for the new set, I think putting 10 Scorpions in the box, when you will never use more than 8 (and even this is going to be a cornercase scenario) and not providing any other Aspects at the same time is a pretty gakky practice as far as being consumer friendly is concerned.

Aspect mini-stratagem seem fine. I guess ot will require some tedious bookkeeping/heavy token use, but the range of options and choices with every activation seems cool. I just hope this wealth of options won't result in extra analysis paralysis amongst Eldar players 😉

Oh come on. Would you rather they came in a box of 8? Would you rather they charged you the same price for including the existing older aspects? Would you still end up with spare minis anyway?

Talk about a complaint for the sakes of a complaint.

I'd rather they offered, for example, 3 of each aspect + 1 Exarch instead of making me pay for models I'm never going to need and not providing models I'm actually going to need. I fail to see how this is not a valid complaint.

Cyel wrote:
I'd rather they offered, for example, 3 of each aspect.

That would completely kill off any purchases from 40k players though

Cyel wrote:
I'd rather they offered, for example, 3 of each aspect + 1 Exarch instead of making me pay for models I'm never going to need and not providing models I'm actually going to need. I fail to see how this is not a valid complaint.

Because they'd need to not only recut sprues for the other aspects or produce new sculpts that they can't sell for 40k, but then produce an additional unit for scorpions on top of that.

Well, my perspective is of a KT player. These 2 extra Scorpions are totally unnecessary. Somehow GW managed not to sell unusable models in other KT boxes.

Cyel wrote:
Well, my perspective is of a KT player. These 2 extra Scorpions are totally unnecessary. Somehow GW managed not to sell unusable models in other KT boxes.

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

Cyel wrote:
Well, my perspective is of a KT player. These 2 extra Scorpions are totally unnecessary. Somehow GW managed not to sell unusable models in other KT boxes.

They come in sprues of 5, so it was either 5 or 10. There is no 8.

These are 40k model kits being used by a side game. It is completely unreasonable to want them to recut existing sprues - especially of new releases - for this.

Dudeface wrote:
]

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

How is it extra value? It's nothing but extra waste.

As I said, I'd rather have a team like older KT teams with options available to this team than surplus useless stuff at the cost of actually useful options being absent. Hell, even if you insist on me, a KT player , caring about what 40k players get, putting in 5 models from 2 different aspects would make more sense as all these models would be usable in different combinations.

Cyel wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
]

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

How is it extra value? It's nothing but extra waste.

As I said, I'd rather have a team like older KT teams with options available to this team than surplus useless stuff at the cost of actually useful options being absent. Hell, even if you insist on me, a KT player , caring about what 40k players get, putting in 5 models from 2 different aspects would make more sense as all these models would be usable in different combinations.

You get 2 free models, why is this something to complain about? If they put 2 sets of 5 different aspects in, I assume you still won't squeeze in all 10, so same problem.

Things you can do with your extra models that are indicative of extra value:
- gift them to someone to show you're a nice human
- try different paint schemes
- use them for conversions
- use them to create spare exarch to swap in with a different load out
- sell them to people who want to add 2 scorpions to their kill teams

Dudeface wrote:

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

If he only plays Kill Team it's a valid complaint, he's subsidizing the production of what is clearly a 40k sprue designed for the needs of 40k players, not Kill Team players, but shoehorned into a Kill Team box.

Now personally I always thought it was a little bit insane how GW was throwing massive resources at very temporary Kill Team product (and Warcry even more so) while some factions in the main systems languish with ancient models. So this is a good move in my eyes. But I get why someone who isn't interested in the wider GW ecosystem would hate it.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

If he only plays Kill Team it's a valid complaint, he's subsidizing the production of what is clearly a 40k sprue designed for the needs of 40k players, not Kill Team players, but shoehorned into a Kill Team box.

Now personally I always thought it was a little bit insane how GW was throwing massive resources at very temporary Kill Team product (and Warcry even more so) while some factions in the main systems languish with ancient models. So this is a good move in my eyes. But I get why someone who isn't interested in the wider GW ecosystem would hate it.

Is it though? The rules are there to support a kill team made from the minis in this box. It honestly sounds like if there were only 8 scorpions in the box it wouldn't be a complaint for some reason. The fact there isn't an aspect host kill team with bespoke new minis maybe sucks, the fact it's not 5 dire avengers and 5 scorpions might be a disappointment, but the point stands that GW is selling a box themed around a striking scorpion kill team, with rules for them, with more than enough models to make the team... but this is a problem because it has 2 too many minis.

I take you back to:

I think putting 10 Scorpions in the box, when you will never use more than 8 (and even this is going to be a cornercase scenario) and not providing any other Aspects at the same time is a pretty gakky practice as far as being consumer friendly is concerned

- the complaint is they put too much in and not the things they wanted it to be being consumer-unfriendly.

Cyel wrote:
I'd rather they offered, for example, 3 of each aspect + 1 Exarch instead of making me pay for models I'm never going to need and not providing models I'm actually going to need. I fail to see how this is not a valid complaint.

None of the sprues are formatted that way. Even if it's a nice idea, it's a non-starter, so it's a choice between this and simply not having Aspect Warrior kill teams at all.

Greenfield wrote:

Cyel wrote:
I'd rather they offered, for example, 3 of each aspect + 1 Exarch instead of making me pay for models I'm never going to need and not providing models I'm actually going to need. I fail to see how this is not a valid complaint.

None of the sprues are formatted that way. Even if it's a nice idea, it's a non-starter, so it's a choice between this and simply not having Aspect Warrior kill teams at all.

But it's a choice GW makes entirely arbitrarily. They could make a bespoke Aspect Kill Team sprue with 2 of each Aspect or whatever if they wanted to. Would it be a rational use of resources? I dunno, probably not worse than the more than a dozen different sprues of Warcry terrain that have all gone out of print within months of release.

Yup, the product is not tailored to what an Aspect Warrior KT player needs. In the past KT teams were better tailored to this. I don't "hate" it, it's just a product. I just wish it it got as much attention as older bespoke teams instead of being a wh40k product thrown randomly into a KT box

Is an apl3 for aspects new? I thought only marines and Harlequins got that.

Dudeface wrote:

Cyel wrote:
Well, my perspective is of a KT player. These 2 extra Scorpions are totally unnecessary. Somehow GW managed not to sell unusable models in other KT boxes.

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

Your point is very good( I'll probably put in an order ), but Cyel is also making one from the perspective of the game itself; team variety.

What they should have done is 5 Scorpions and 5 Warp Spiders, or Banshees or Avengers. While one still would have had two left over models, they would have all been unique model sculpts instead of doubles( not to mention two Exarchs to choose from as a leader ). And it would actually serve the game itself by not having only one aspect warrior to field, better illustrating the mix'n'match feature.

If the Scouts still have their options from the old kit then they'll be varied enough for 8-10 models.

Personal niggle is that GW could have done a Banshee & Storm Guardian team in the meantime. Shouldn't have had to wait two years just to put the banshees on the table.

SamusDrake wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Cyel wrote:
Well, my perspective is of a KT player. These 2 extra Scorpions are totally unnecessary. Somehow GW managed not to sell unusable models in other KT boxes.

Take a step back. You're complaining that, for the same price, you're getting more than you need you're complaining that you have too much additional value. They're releasing a striking scorpions themed box, they included enough to accomplish a striking scorpions kill team, with extra stuff, and you're complaining, they gave you too many models?

Your point is very good( I'll probably put in an order ), but Cyel is also making one from the perspective of the game itself; team variety.

What they should have done is 5 Scorpions and 5 Warp Spiders, or Banshees or Avengers. While one still would have had two left over models, they would have all been unique model sculpts instead of doubles( not to mention two Exarchs to choose from as a leader ). And it would actually serve the game itself by not having only one aspect warrior to field, better illustrating the mix'n'match feature.

If the Scouts still have their options from the old kit then they'll be varied enough for 8-10 models.

Personal niggle is that GW could have done a Banshee & Storm Guardian team in the meantime. Shouldn't have had to wait two years just to put the banshees on the table.

My qualm was saying that having too many scorpions I'm the box made it so it wasn't customer friendly, it's maybe a little dull it being 2x5 scorpions, I can agree to that, but they were never going to get this right. There will always be too many models if they use 40k sprues. If they included 2 aspects, that still doesn't cover all options for the kill team. If they created a new kill team box with 3-4 of each aspect in, that's not customer friendly to anyone who wanted to only use 1 or 2 aspects.

GW could put any combination of stuff in here, the only one that wouldn't end in a complaint is if it was a box of 8 scorpions with specific gubbins, in a team that can only take scorpions.

But it's still the only time I've known a GW release criticised for including too many minis.

Dudeface wrote:


My qualm was saying that having too many scorpions I'm the box made it so it wasn't customer friendly, it's maybe a little dull it being 2x5 scorpions, I can agree to that, but they were never going to get this right. There will always be too many models if they use 40k sprues. If they included 2 aspects, that still doesn't cover all options for the kill team. If they created a new kill team box with 3-4 of each aspect in, that's not customer friendly to anyone who wanted to only use 1 or 2 aspects.

GW could put any combination of stuff in here, the only one that wouldn't end in a complaint is if it was a box of 8 scorpions with specific gubbins, in a team that can only take scorpions.

But it's still the only time I've known a GW release criticised for including too many minis.

Of course and thats why I made it clear that you had a very good point before elaborating; the Warcry Starter is an example of going the other way - you only get half teams, so this is clearly better. Also, one could feel free to convert those last two scorpion models so one could at least see a slightly different team between games; or maybe represent a specialist if the game has such Scorpion characters.

Personally I'm a big fan of the 40k squad plus Kill Team specialist bits sprue approach.

Yup, thats another thing they could have done so its not like they didn't have options to improve the variety of the team members.

Other previous Kill Teams havce had more members in the box than they can have on the board, so it's nothing new with the Aspect Warriors.

And it'll very likely be a case of the Scorpions being the best Eldar unit in Kill Team, as was the case in the last edition. So its not a bad thing for Eldar players.

 Hellebore wrote:
Is an apl3 for aspects new? I thought only marines and Harlequins got that.

Yeah, it's new. The Dire Avengers in the Compendium only had APL 2.

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Is an apl3 for aspects new? I thought only marines and Harlequins got that.

Yeah, it's new. The Dire Avengers in the Compendium only had APL 2.

Do we think avengers will stay apl2 but the banshees and scorpions will be apl3?

I'd like to think the aspects will be elite like they should be.

 Hellebore wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Is an apl3 for aspects new? I thought only marines and Harlequins got that.

Yeah, it's new. The Dire Avengers in the Compendium only had APL 2.

Do we think avengers will stay apl2 but the banshees and scorpions will be apl3?

I'd like to think the aspects will be elite like they should be.

Dire Avengers ARE an aspect, aren't they? You mean Guardians?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 Pariah Press wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:
Is an apl3 for aspects new? I thought only marines and Harlequins got that.

Yeah, it's new. The Dire Avengers in the Compendium only had APL 2.

Do we think avengers will stay apl2 but the banshees and scorpions will be apl3?

I'd like to think the aspects will be elite like they should be.

Dire Avengers ARE an aspect, aren't they? You mean Guardians?

No they only showed banshee and scorpion stats. The apl isnt a group stat, and they may not republish the avenger profile with a new apl, just say take them from the craftworld list.

 Shakalooloo wrote:
Other previous Kill Teams havce had more members in the box than they can have on the board, so it's nothing new with the Aspect Warriors.

Sort of. I think the difference here is that in previous boxes you could still build the excess models differently and have them in your list. So for tournament or campaign play you could swap them in or out.
My understanding with this is the variety in this team comes from different aspects, but the individuals models don't have builds that are any different (in Kill Team) - so there's literally no point to building those last three models, because they do the exact same thing in game as the other five.

So it's a bit weird. Hardly unforgivable, but yeah it does seem it'd make more sense to design the in-box team around those models then publish the combined aspects team in White Dwarf instead. Or as some have said, do a new sprue with three of each. *That* wouldn't be anything new as you've always been restricted with what you could build.

I think the real question is how well a five Scorpion team plays. Not in power level, just in fun. It feels like it basically locks you out of the most interesting element of this team, but I could be wrong be there.

All this is further proof of the game's dwindling status in terms of resource allocation from GW. Salvation box is prioritizing 40K players' thirst for models over KT21 players enjoyment. You can bet the box being hard to find for KT21 players due to 40K players buying it just for the models. Not a fan, but it is what it is.. at least we get something rather than nothing for a year until 2nd edition

I recommend all you KT21 players sell off your extra Scorpions sprue for added savings, you'll be able to sell it easily