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 LunarSol wrote:
There's basically no world in which Turbo Boost works. You have to start the turn in the open which means your opponent had every opportunity to respond a million different ways and even then you're throwing effectively nothing upfield faster. If that was a viable strategy, we'd see a lot more flyers.

Or you can stage behind terrain that leaves you with an open sightline to where you're going to want to go.

Planes suck (in part) due to having a MINIMUM that they can move, basically being visible 100% of the time, and having 0 OC.

Bikers can be hidden fairly easily, have an OC of 2 per biker and don't have to move the full 24".

As I stated, throwing Bikers or Snazzwagons into the open for move blocking/screening is a use for being able to rocket 24" across the board. As is just throwing OC onto an objective or table quarter to steal VP, especially when the Trike can move through terrain while doing so.

Is Turbo going to make Speedwaaagh OP? Probably not, but it has uses that can win you games.

Full rules available:

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_22-04_wh40k_faction-pack_orks-hkgrrrimae-j5rdbqknu5.pdf

Wazzdakka is 175. Expensive, but still more or less a no-brainer if you are running other vehicles.


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Blitz brigade looks great to me:
- Assault ramp stratagem
- mini-Waaagh! for Vehicles and Monster (*laughs in gargantuan squiggoth*)
- disembark-shoot-embark for tank bustas
- tank hunta stratagem for firing decks, nauts, koptas and stompas
- Defensive stratagem is limited to rigs and battlewagons. Meh.
- if someone dares shoot your transport, the ladz just disembark and krump the next best thing
- enhancement for redeploying vehicle units. Yes, that includes koptas. And your stompa.

 Jidmah wrote:
Full rules available:

https://assets.warhammer-community.com/eng_22-04_wh40k_faction-pack_orks-hkgrrrimae-j5rdbqknu5.pdf

Wazzdakka is 175. Expensive, but still more or less a no-brainer if you are running other vehicles.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Blitz brigade looks great to me:
- Assault ramp stratagem
- mini-Waaagh! for Vehicles and Monster (*laughs in gargantuan squiggoth*)
- disembark-shoot-embark for tank bustas
- tank hunta stratagem for firing decks, nauts, koptas and stompas
- Defensive stratagem is limited to rigs and battlewagons. Meh.
- if someone dares shoot your transport, the ladz just disembark and krump the next best thing
- enhancement for redeploying vehicle units. Yes, that includes koptas. And your stompa.

I agree, Blitz Brigade looks really good. And Wazzy is a steal at 175, definitely making room for him.

Speedwaaagh is probably stronger than it appears.

There are a fair number of speed freeks units that don't care about terrain that much (Deffkoptas, Wazdakka, Warbikers with the shokk box enhancement), 24" move with these will be great for scoring (and shooting). Also, even though movement is in a single straight line with no pivoting, it isn't flyer rules movement where you can only move forward - you can drift them sideways if you like.

Dakkamek seems cool. Could generally buff a Trukk full of Tankbustas, or maybe as a one off you could try your luck on a Shokkjump Dragsta - seems like that could jump and shoot now that it gets assault, and could try for the rapid firing/speshul ammo combo for a chance at big dev wounds.

The only problem with Blitz is it has no dice pumping effects. You'll get there, but there's a lot of things that will be a challenge to push through compared to War Horde. It looks super fun though.


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 Jidmah wrote:
Turbo boost might not be a no-brainer to use, but is far from useless.

Even with the stratagem, bikes are neither great fighters, nor great shots, nor are they particularly durable. Just like jump intercessors, their only role is grabbing objectives quickly and then die. None of the other speed freak units want to drive into the enemy as fast as possible either.

Instead, you can easily hide behind a ruin and then zap to another ruin or an objective if you set it up right. It will take some practice to use properly, but 24" is a lot of movement, NML objectives are just 12" from your deployment zone, there is plenty of space to deploy a unit out of range and/or sight and still be able to get there. With a wartrike, you can be as far away as 30" and still threaten an objective,

I see a lot of complaining from people about this across multiple channels, but most of those people clearly haven't actually used ork bikers in a game. Speed freaks haven't been about engaging combat ever since nob bikers were gutted, so not being able to turbo-boost through ruins is a rather minor concern.

The problem is just geometry. The full width of the unit needs an open line to wherever you're going for it to be any use. Even when you set it up, its so heavily telegraphed and really doesn't take a lot for an opponent to stop you beyond turn 1. 11th terrain will probably work better for sure, but its still a nightmare of dual laser lines to pull off.

 LunarSol wrote:
The only problem with Blitz is it has no dice pumping effects. You'll get there, but there's a lot of things that will be a challenge to push through compared to War Horde. It looks super fun though.

I could be totally wrong - but I wouldn't expect either of these detachments to be a 3 pointer in the 11th system (same for the Guard detachments), so you'd potentially be able to blend them with something else.
Doesn't help for the next 2 months I guess.

Tyel wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
The only problem with Blitz is it has no dice pumping effects. You'll get there, but there's a lot of things that will be a challenge to push through compared to War Horde. It looks super fun though.

I could be totally wrong - but I wouldn't expect either of these detachments to be a 3 pointer in the 11th system (same for the Guard detachments), so you'd potentially be able to blend them with something else.
Doesn't help for the next 2 months I guess.

100%. Once we get the 11th edition overhaul we'll be seeing a full reappraisal of everything.

 Insularum wrote:
Speedwaaagh is probably stronger than it appears.

There are a fair number of speed freeks units that don't care about terrain that much (Deffkoptas, Wazdakka, Warbikers with the shokk box enhancement), 24" move with these will be great for scoring (and shooting). Also, even though movement is in a single straight line with no pivoting, it isn't flyer rules movement where you can only move forward - you can drift them sideways if you like.

Fly doesn't let you ignore terrain anymore, so if you need to jump over anything, you can't use the turbo-boost. However, if you place your koptas on top of some terrain, you can turbo-boost down to ground level in a straight line.

Otherwise, agree. In addition, every single model needs to move in a straight line in any direction. It's an extra 0-12" move you can use whenever you need, in every single turn of the game. A full 24" move in turn 1 isn't something you want to do regularly.

Dakkamek seems cool. Could generally buff a Trukk full of Tankbustas, or maybe as a one off you could try your luck on a Shokkjump Dragsta - seems like that could jump and shoot now that it gets assault, and could try for the rapid firing/speshul ammo combo for a chance at big dev wounds.

Scrapjet also is a nice target as you have the extra wing missile. Otherwise, a Morkanaut or quad rokkit/KMB dreads seem like a good options.

 LunarSol wrote:
The only problem with Blitz is it has no dice pumping effects. You'll get there, but there's a lot of things that will be a challenge to push through compared to War Horde. It looks super fun though.

After playing it today, this summarizes the whole experience very well. Blitz brigade is extremely mobile, has lots of neat tricks and the defensive stratagem for the big transports is much better than anticipated. You struggle to kill anything though, especially in close combat I failed to kill a monster of an elite unit multiple times by only a few successful attacks. My nobz, for example, failed to kill a demon prince and lost nine models in return.

If you want to run a blitz brigade successfully, you definitely need at least two units of tank bustas, as they can fire at full power from the wagons by either using the extra damage stratagem or by exiting and re-embarking at the end of the turn. I also got a lot of extra mileage out of my beastsnagga boyz by withdrawing into the kill rig that followed them into combat with a lord of change. Otherwise, they would have been obliterated by shooting.

Koptas and flash gits were ok as always. I failed to use my breaka boyz properly so no judgement on them. I should probably bring more units of gretchin to have more CP.

Next time I'll definitely try burnas and bringing a mek or two. A second kill rig would be dope, but I don't have one.

I haven't played Blitz yet, but at a glance I'd agree with you.

It looks like the strange child of war horde and kult of speed; it looks fairly straightforward to play at a basic level and looks like it can accommodate a lot of different units, but it seems a detachment with a reasonably high skill floor. Lots of precise movement and shenanigans, like if Orks were playing an Eldar detachment.

I have not tried the speed waagh nor blitz brigade, but my early inputs would be these:

Speed waagh Seem like it has good stratagems but the detatchment rule seem super odd. Like, you ONLY get the assault when you use turbo boost, and not just advance normally?

Why? And the rule to only go in a straight line is the weirdest rule i have ever seen. At least it could have simply stated you are not allowed to pivot. But what ever.

Stratagems seem fine in that detatchment, albeit works a bit against your army rule of advance and charge.

Blitz brigade on the other hand seem very mobile and as some of you say, could seem straight forward but also might have high skill ceiling. It invites you to jump back in to a wagon after fighting with your boyz and gitz, but its also basically a fire and fade ability. Thus its a lot better to just use it as: Jump out, shoot, jump back in, instead of actually fighting.

Jidmah says the damage seem lacking and that is exactly what i was afraid of. The detatchment focus seem to be on melee combat, yet we will focus on shooting instead.

Im not sure speed waaagh will be competitive, and im not sure blitz brigade will either, due to lack of real damage. But maybe it can? Maybe it could.

I would have to try but at the very least Blitz brigade seem interesting. I just fear the absolute lack of damage.

Both detatchments seem adapted to 11th edition though, and not to stand alone in 10th. Speed waaaghs rules seem adapted to GWs own terrain setup for 11th, and blitz brigade seem adapted to be mixed with other detatchments.

Exactly. The detachment focus is on getting into combat, not fighting in combat. That's why the beastsnagga boyz did so well, the beastboss was charging monsters with devastating wounds multiple times. The nobz, on the flip side, were in combat before my second turn, but fell flat on their face because the Waaagh! wasn't active yet.

Not sure about breaka boyz. I overcommitted to destroying a defiler, and it imploded from the tankshock alone. They then barely piled into another unit and failed to kill it with just two combatants. I should just have used the stratagem to re-embark them.

So with Speedwaaagh I think you're only using the turbo in 3 scenarios:

1. Move blocking and screening. Likely in turn one or just chucking a speed bump down mid game.

2. Snagging objectives late game. Mostly with Wazdakka and/or Trikes with the enhancement so they can move through terrain. Otherwise gets fiddly trying to sort out clean lanes.

3. Assassinating exposed characters or objectives holders with shorter ranged shooting.


The detachment has some nice damage strats, but I think overall it will have the same issues that Blitz Brigade does.

1. Car park. There's (in theory) a lot of big models involved with these detachments and they're likely to bottleneck one another.

2. Damage. Buggies and bikes are fairly lackluster in terms of damage, and the strats don't look like they add that much in the grand scheme of things. Similarly, kill rigs/wagons/etc don't deal that much damage on their own unless against chaff, and the units inside don't do enough without damage strats or spending a bittload on supporting characters. These detachments look like they'll be good at chunking things, but not necessarily killing things. So you'll have to put extra resources into killing things, which means that there's things not being shot or chopped, which means there's more to punch us back.


Without playing either of them I'll say that these have some potential, however I think the lack of punch compared to other detachments means they'll only be winning tournaments if they're in the hands of a truly skilled player, or they turn into a strong anti-meta list.

When we reach 11th edition i think speed waaagh will make a lot more sense. Not just because of the different terrain (if people run that) but also because of the 15" lone op before you have fired your guns, or what ever the rule was.

It means you can safely put your speed freeks units out in the open, unable to be fired upon, and then just drive in a straight line 24 inches.

You cant do this with 10th edition because that rule isnt here, so you HAVE to hide behind terrain. Thus completely negating their own rule, because you will not even go 10 inches without needing to move the vehicle side ways or pivoting.

Speed waaagh is terrible because we are not in 11th edition.

Also true.

I feel like these are 1-2 points detachments to add some sauce to your overall army, not the whole shebang with something that's just inherently stronger like War Horde or Taktikal Brigade

Beardedragon wrote:
When we reach 11th edition i think speed waaagh will make a lot more sense. Not just because of the different terrain (if people run that) but also because of the 15" lone op before you have fired your guns, or what ever the rule was.

It means you can safely put your speed freeks units out in the open, unable to be fired upon, and then just drive in a straight line 24 inches.

You cant do this with 10th edition because that rule isnt here, so you HAVE to hide behind terrain. Thus completely negating their own rule, because you will not even go 10 inches without needing to move the vehicle side ways or pivoting.

Speed waaagh is terrible because we are not in 11th edition.

Maybe I misunderstood but for having the 15" inch lone op, the squad musn't be in cover?
So a unit in the open Is still visibile.

I'm also fairly sure that they said something about infantry, beasts and swarms.

Ah. So even in 11th edition the speed waagh rule is stupid.

Gotcha.

Vehicles can move over certain terrain in 11, so it still has some use, you do take a penalty.

I'm not aware of any changes in that regard - you are allowed to ignore terrain less than 2" even now.

Got a source?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lxzwueun/new40k-terrain-objectives-make-the-battlefield-your-mission/

Vehicles can also traverse the terrain around objectives more easily, being able to move through lighter features like low walls, scrub, and treelines without slowing (effectively, all the yellow bits on these maps).

If you check map, yellow bits are quite common and green not so much, so vehicles can move kind of easily. I am still waiting on shooting rules, i have some concerns so far.

That just sounds like the 2" rules to me, though "treelines" is confusing. A vehicles can drive through all the yellow bits in 10th, so there is no change here.

GW jargon, may or may not. What we think does not matter much. What does matter though is what GW thinks.

I believe we get a better picture of how things might be by the map layout they showed. Going by it, vehicles will have a lot of free room to move in my opinion. That is what i am basing my opinion and based on what is stated so far. Still its premature to say anything i am waiting on shooting rules first.