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 dreadblade wrote:
Any suggestions on how to effectively use a DP (without wings)? So far, because a DP can't lead a unit, I'm finding it gets blown off the board before it can ever get into melee or anywhere useful.

I got a tournament (1500P) coming up and i'am bringing the following:

Magnus
Daemon Prince (Um. crystal)
Daemon prince with wings (lore)
Daemon prince with wings
Daemon prince with wings

Changeling
3 horrors
3 horrors

I teleport the walking daemon prince mid field and move magnus 28 inch (temporal surge) within 6 inch so that he got stealth. Winged daemon prince all go up in the air after the oppponent's turn and also drop within 6 inch or go for the objectives. The winged daemon prince with lore could fly forward and make sure it's within 18 inch from magnus so that magnus could do another weaver of fate reroll.

This is not a tournament winning list but it looks like fun. At 1500 points I hope that magnus is to much to handle with stealth, ignore damage stratagem and twist of fate. Or magnus got shot down first turn and I can pack it in.

In this setup, stealth is really nice. against Eldar shooting it can really make a difference. But in any other list I don't really see a use for the walking daemon prince.

Taking the crystal on the DP would be cool, except that I already use it on an Infernal Master who leads my flamer Rubric brick. I think that's a lot more useful to teleport into the objectives on turn 1 than the DP.

shogun wrote:

 dreadblade wrote:
Any suggestions on how to effectively use a DP (without wings)? So far, because a DP can't lead a unit, I'm finding it gets blown off the board before it can ever get into melee or anywhere useful.

I got a tournament (1500P) coming up and i'am bringing the following:

Magnus
Daemon Prince (Um. crystal)
Daemon prince with wings (lore)
Daemon prince with wings
Daemon prince with wings

Changeling
3 horrors
3 horrors

I teleport the walking daemon prince mid field and move magnus 28 inch (temporal surge) within 6 inch so that he got stealth. Winged daemon prince all go up in the air after the oppponent's turn and also drop within 6 inch or go for the objectives. The winged daemon prince with lore could fly forward and make sure it's within 18 inch from magnus so that magnus could do another weaver of fate reroll.

This is not a tournament winning list but it looks like fun. At 1500 points I hope that magnus is to much to handle with stealth, ignore damage stratagem and twist of fate. Or magnus got shot down first turn and I can pack it in.

In this setup, stealth is really nice. against Eldar shooting it can really make a difference. But in any other list I don't really see a use for the walking daemon prince.

I like that list just for the sheer zaniness of it. Kind of like Thousand Sons Knights with the DPs as wardogs and Magunus as your big one. LOL

As to the original question, the best way to use a daemon prince with wings I have found is to definitely hide turn 1. Then use the teleport to put him on a flank, hopefully behind some LOS blocking terrain, and then bully the flank and back field units on objectives. He is not a main line damage dealer and should not engage anything that can fight back in CC well. Also the teleport really lets you get a good base to use doombolt if you opponent doesn't screen well, really good for putting down those annonying lone opps (doombolt is not a shooting attack so can target at 18"). Hopefully you will find this useful.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
The list I'd been running went up about 250pts, so I've got two new ones. Anyone have any thoughts about these?

No Termies

Spoiler:

Magnus – 440
Ahriman – 130
Sorcerer in Termie Armour (Enhance: LoFL) – 140
Infernal Master (Enhance: UC) – 110
Sorcerer – 95
10 Rubrics with flamers – 210
10 Rubrics with bolters – 210
5 Rubrics with flamers – 105
5 Rubrics with flamers – 105
3 Tzaangor Enlightened – 45
Mutalith – 165
Rhino – 75
Changeling – 90
3 Flamers – 80
= 2000
16 sorcery points

This list eschews the typical Terminator death block for a Rubric block that, while it doesn't have quite as much firepower or durability, is literally half the points. Stick an Infernal Master with Crystal to lead these guys, and they can deploy waaay back to gain some safety and then teleport forward T1 to get the drop on a scary target. If you have the armor turned off your target, then maybe select Lethal Hits for this round, otherwise stay in DevWounds as usual.
Since we can't double-dip into the ignore damage strat anymore, maybe we spend those sorcery points on the reroll everything strat instead so that both Magnus and this unit get it!
Stand next to Magnus, buff the bolters, and you're getting 20 shots hitting on 2s (from Magnus), Sustained 1 (from Master), Lethal (from Army). That's roughly 22 hits (get three 1s and convert two of them with the reroll and also get three 6s), +1 to wound means we're wounding T6-9 on 4s and T10+ on 5s. Add in the Master's 2d6 S7 shots, for another roughly 5 and I'd say that's a solid 18 wounds into a tough target from this unit. If you did the average (5) from Doombolt at the start, then you've done 23 wounds on a Knight. If you're below average, finish it with the Terminator Sorcerer, Magnus, or the Mutalith, maybe.

Still Termies

Spoiler:

Magnus – 440
Ahriman – 130
Sorcerer in Termie Armour (Enhance: UC) – 135
Infernal Master (Enhance: LoFL) – 115
10 Rubrics with flamers – 210
5 Rubrics with flamers – 105
5 Rubrics with flamers – 105
10 Termies with cannons and missiles – 430
Mutalith – 165
Rhino – 75
Changeling – 90
= 2000
15 sorcery points

This one has fewer units, but still counts on the Occult Block to smash face. It's very similar to the list I had been running, so I want to try out the first one and see if Rubrics are decent performers. The combi-bolters as opposed to inferno bolters are just so much better, with over twice as many shots (but for twice the points). 10 Terminators with cannons/missiles and a leader, in RF range, will get 36 bolter shots, 12 cannon shots, and 4 missile shots. Next to Magnus, buffed, that's a lot of hits on 2s and wounds on 5s, as well as lethal and sustained and even some damage 3.
If we do the same setup as the above Rubrics... 35 bolter hits, 27 wounds. Then 8 hits and 1-2 DWs from the cannons, then 3 hits and 1-2 wounds from the missiles, THEN 3 hits and 6 MWs from the Termie Sorcerer's smite. YIKES!

Hi Elric, i am starting TS and really appreciate your posts. Any new feedback about the terminator list ? and the full Rubric one ?

thanks !

The Rubrics are a lot harder to maneuver over the course of a whole game, bc once they drop in, even if they kill their target, they have very few shots at anything outside their 17" range (move+rapid fire). I just like the Terminators.

I've adapted again and I'm currently using Ahriman with 10x Flamer Rubrics in Rhino, Master with Crystal and 5x Flamer Rubrics, Sorcerer with Scrolls and 5x bolter Rubrics, Termie Sorcerer with Vortex and 10x Termies, Magnus, and 3x Enlightened.

So I am back to using TS, and I had a game against CSM yesterday. My list was as follows:

Ahriman
10x Flamer Rubrics with Soul reaper
Rhino
Exalted Sor
10 x Rubrics with Soul reaper
Daemon Prince
Termie Sor with crystal
3 5 x SoT units with Soul reaper and missile
Forgefiend
3 x Tgor bow guys
Predator Annihilate

We played on this table that was preset and filled with ruins so he had the advantage as his army was more melee focused. He got some long charges off turn two and put down some of my vehicles, but I ended up weathering the hit and then began to hit him back with with my physic close combat and just wore him down to end up winning by 2 points. Thoughts on Units:

Ahriman w/10x Flamer Rubrics with Soul reaper in Rhino- So yea they toasted some CSM. However I did not use the remove armor cabal, and with only an ap -1 they did less damage then I was expected to CSM legionaries. I think you really need to plan to use the remove armor cabal each time the shoot to maximize their efficiency. They also did some overwatch damage, but then got promptly killed when attacked by a bunch of units as it always the case. I am not sold on the rhino. If there was indirect maybe could be good, but with the move again cabal the unit can move basically as far anyway, and as infantry can move though ruins. Also if they start in the Rhino, you don't generate the 4 cabal points they are worth.

Exalted Sor w.10 x Rubrics with Soul reaper- yea I know another squad of flamers would probably be better, but I don't own more than 9. They actually did pretty good, and since I don't have a 10 block of termies, I used the re-roll physic attacks/physic bolters on them and they did some ok damage. I also resurrected 4 rubrics which is really helpful. I think I like the Exalted better with a 10 man, and the normal Sor better with a 5 man.

Daemon Prince- my first time taking the walking one and he did pretty well. I actually forgot the -1 hit aura two turns, so did not get that much of a feeling for him, and never got the use the precision thing. (I am going to put a dice with -1 near him so I remember next time). Also our daemon princes are better than the CSM ones in combat because of the [Devastating Wounds]. He did a lot of damage that with that killing a maulerfiend, and oblits (both wounded prior). He also tanked a bit of fire with the 4++ and the ability to re-roll from cabal, and the 0 damage strat. I do like him if you are not bring Magnus (which if you are going to a competitive event, you most certianly are)


Termie Sor with crystal w/ 5 x SoT units with Soul reaper and missile- turn one teleport to put pressure on a mid-field objective as usual. Our terminators are really tough (actually terminators in general finally feel right), but their damage out put is not the best in my opinion without the strat/cabal use. I know 10 with the strat/cabal is the hotness, but I just don't want to use that in a friendly game. Also these guys did not need a points increase. They were fine where they were, as where the Rubrics which now feel overpriced, what needed to be changed is really the strat/cabal (although losing that would really hurt) and increasing the points for the characters was really what was needed. I felt as if I had one too few units in this game against the CSM.

5 x SoT units with Soul reaper and missile- see above.

3 x Tgor bow guys- They were really helpful for quick secondary support. They are really fast and with the small unit and other issues, my opponent basically ignored them. A more shooting focused army might find the extra shots to put into them, so they may not be best in every situation. But helpful and basically won me the game by doing a Investigate Signals secondary. I think people are using the lone operative blue scribes for this, which is probably better, but these guys work too. I would use them again.

Forgefiend- So, no where near as good as the CSM one, but that is because [Devastating Wounds] is still so bonkers broken. However, he is still pretty good, 3d3 blast S10 ap -3 3D is a pretty good profile. I only got to shoot him once (he killed the unit he shot) so did not get to use the -1 to the opponent thing. He got hit turn two with a long bomb charge from advancing and charging possessed so that was that (again [Devastating Wounds] is still too good).

Predator Annihilate- Finally this tank, which will include my rant on Chaos vehicles in general. He did ok, this was not a good battlefield for him due to the heavy ruins preventing any real long ranged shooting (it was basically a city fight). However in typical fashion he wiffed with his laser cannons on turn 3, and was bogged down by warptalons who made a deep strike charge on him (those things are really good now by the way). I am going to trade him out next game for something else, but GW really needs to look at the points for all the chaos vehicles in our army other than the forgefiend who feels right (and is like 45 points cheaper than the CSM ones). None of the vehicles benefit from our detachment abilities, don't generate cabal, can't cast cabal, and only really benefit from the remove armor, move again (probably being used on infantry) and re-roll save (if in range of a Sor and not being used on something more important). Also we don't have a single character, enhancement, or stratagem that helps our vehicles in any way. The point is due to this they are all really overcosted in our army by like 15 or 20 points (maybe not Rhino as that is just a transport). The CSM ones get so much more with the dark pacts. The most egregious one is the hellbrute. The CSM one is awesome with its ability. The WE and DG ones also have much better abilities then ours, and I think the -1 cabal in 6 inches is super niche and rarely matters (how many times do you end up having one or two cabal dice remaining anyway.) And ours is 5 points more than the other ones! They could make it 100 points and I don't think I would field it. Sorry rant over.

Just a note on [Devastating Wounds] with the physic attacks. I know a lot of people like the [Sustained Hits] but I think the [Devastating Wounds] is better unless you bring Magus who wants more attacks. I know the unit Sor already have [Devastating Wounds], but really how much value are you getting out of [Sustained Hits] anyway with a 1d attack with only 2 or 3 shots. I think it is better to have [Devastating Wounds] active for getting though enemy army, which really makes our physic attacks punch up, especially in close combat. Maybe if you are playing Orks, or GSC that don't really have good armor, [Sustained Hits] might be better, but I think against any vehicle heavy or SM equivalent armies, the [Devastating Wounds] is better. Also I would never take [Lethal Hits] as I think the auto wound is only good if you already have good ap, but low to middle strength which most of the physic attacks are only -1 or -2. Many times you can get [Lethal Hits] with a Sor leading a unit anyway.

Anyway hope this is helpful.

Got a question regarding temporal surge: anything preventing a double temporal surge on Magnus with the lord of the lore enhancement? I got a game coming up against genestealer cult and I need alle the mobility that I can get..

shogun wrote:
Got a question regarding temporal surge: anything preventing a double temporal surge on Magnus with the lord of the lore enhancement? I got a game coming up against genestealer cult and I need alle the mobility that I can get..

I don't see anything that would prevent that as the only limitation is you can only use the cabal power 1 time, but the enhancement breaks that. Although I don't know why you would want to double on Magnus as with his move I believe only using it once lets him go 32" so pretty much anywhere on the board already

Not to mention without chargeshas to be pretty darn specific use. Could see more use for double surge for ahrimann&flamer squad.

Surely Magnus can't be given an enhancement because he's an epic hero?

Doesn't have to. Extra move is cabal done by psyker that grants other unit to move.

So that exalted sorcerer does ritual moving magnus, then does again.

tneva82 wrote:
Doesn't have to. Extra move is cabal done by psyker that grants other unit to move.

So that exalted sorcerer does ritual moving magnus, then does again.

 xeen wrote:

shogun wrote:
Got a question regarding temporal surge: anything preventing a double temporal surge on Magnus with the lord of the lore enhancement? I got a game coming up against genestealer cult and I need alle the mobility that I can get..

I don't see anything that would prevent that as the only limitation is you can only use the cabal power 1 time, but the enhancement breaks that. Although I don't know why you would want to double on Magnus as with his move I believe only using it once lets him go 32" so pretty much anywhere on the board already

Thanks. I did a small 3-round tournament with my list:



Game 1: I lost to a mean Genestealer cult army. Actually moved Magnus twice to get behind enemy cover and blast away a ridgerunner and get 'behind enemy lines' mission objective. Enemy put everything in reserves and when the dropped down the actually killed 3 flying daemon princes in one go. After that I killed a lot of enemy units but the GSC kept scoring to many mission points.

Game 2: played against my buddies Aeldari-army. I really feared this army because it got 8 bright lances (2 warwalkers and two wraithlords) and 3 fire prims. I need to get first turn to get my defences up and take out a few enemy shots. I actually got first turn and teleported the walking daemon prince mid field and moved magnus twice to get within 6 inch (stealth) took out a warwalker and damaged another one. Only problem is that my buddy actually took down 6 wounds on the walking daemon prince with overwatch + 6 to hit fate dice. But next turn my buddy didn't roll so well and I actually managed to save all the shots. I needed 'weaver of fate' twice and the ignore damage stratagem but I survived. End of his turn I put 3 flying daemon princes in reserves. After that i dropped in and kept him in the ropes. Lot of stuffed died on both sides bot I controled the mid field and primary objectives. I won. If my opponent got first turn It would probably be over in 20 minutes.

Game 3: Against chaos knights. One big one with laser destructor. I got first turn again and dropped the big knight with psychic shooting from magnus and the shots from the daemon princes. From that point on it was a garanteed win. I did underestimate the close combat attacks from the small knights (stalkers?) and the actually killed magnus. I still claimed the mid field and won on points. Normally the daemon princes can do a decent amount of wounds in close combat but S8 against knights really sucks.

In the end I got 5th place (26 players). The winner got a perfect score with aeldari (10 wraithguard and Yncarne)

I really like this list. It's fun. Daemon prince with stealth really helps against shooting and when I got my defence up it can be difficult to deal with this armylist. A lot of armylist got a decent amount of D3 weapons to take out terminators and stuff, but with -1 damage on magnus It is not that efficient.

I would really want to play this in a 2000p setup but i know this would not work. At 1500 points the enemy player can have difficulty taking down magnus but at 2000 points the amount of shooting or objective grabbing tips the balance to much.

shogun wrote:

 xeen wrote:

shogun wrote:
Got a question regarding temporal surge: anything preventing a double temporal surge on Magnus with the lord of the lore enhancement? I got a game coming up against genestealer cult and I need alle the mobility that I can get..

I don't see anything that would prevent that as the only limitation is you can only use the cabal power 1 time, but the enhancement breaks that. Although I don't know why you would want to double on Magnus as with his move I believe only using it once lets him go 32" so pretty much anywhere on the board already

Thanks. I did a small 3-round tournament with my list:

Spoiler:

Magnus
Daemon Prince (Um. crystal)
Daemon prince with wings (lore)
Daemon prince with wings
Daemon prince with wings

Changeling
3 flamers of tzeentch
3 3 flamers of tzeentch

Game 1: I lost to a mean Genestealer cult army. Actually moved Magnus twice to get behind enemy cover and blast away a ridgerunner and get 'behind enemy lines' mission objective. Enemy put everything in reserves and when the dropped down the actually killed 3 flying daemon princes in one go. After that I killed a lot of enemy units but the GSC kept scoring to many mission points.

Game 2: played against my buddies Aeldari-army. I really feared this army because it got 8 bright lances (2 warwalkers and two wraithlords) and 3 fire prims. I need to get first turn to get my defences up and take out a few enemy shots. I actually got first turn and teleported the walking daemon prince mid field and moved magnus twice to get within 6 inch (stealth) took out a warwalker and damaged another one. Only problem is that my buddy actually took down 6 wounds on the walking daemon prince with overwatch + 6 to hit fate dice. But next turn my buddy didn't roll so well and I actually managed to save all the shots. I needed 'weaver of fate' twice and the ignore damage stratagem but I survived. End of his turn I put 3 flying daemon princes in reserves. After that i dropped in and kept him in the ropes. Lot of stuffed died on both sides bot I controled the mid field and primary objectives. I won. If my opponent got first turn It would probably be over in 20 minutes.

Game 3: Against chaos knights. One big one with laser destructor. I got first turn again and dropped the big knight with psychic shooting from magnus and the shots from the daemon princes. From that point on it was a garanteed win. I did underestimate the close combat attacks from the small knights (stalkers?) and the actually killed magnus. I still claimed the mid field and won on points. Normally the daemon princes can do a decent amount of wounds in close combat but S8 against knights really sucks.

In the end I got 5th place (26 players). The winner got a perfect score with aeldari (10 wraithguard and Yncarne)

I really like this list. It's fun. Daemon prince with stealth really helps against shooting and when I got my defence up it can be difficult to deal with this armylist. A lot of armylist got a decent amount of D3 weapons to take out terminators and stuff, but with -1 damage on magnus It is not that efficient.

I would really want to play this in a 2000p setup but i know this would not work. At 1500 points the enemy player can have difficulty taking down magnus but at 2000 points the amount of shooting or objective grabbing tips the balance to much.

Cool write up, 5th place is not to bad. I like that list, I don't think it is meta breaking, but sure looks fun. Yea the DPs lower strength really does hurt.

Does anyone ally-in a dreadblade?

I also play Chaos Knights, so could bring along a Despoiler, Descecrator or even 3 Brigands. Without their enhancements or stratagems though, are they effectively overcosted in a TSons army?

 dreadblade wrote:
Does anyone ally-in a dreadblade?

I also play Chaos Knights, so could bring along a Despoiler, Descecrator or even 3 Brigands. Without their enhancements or stratagems though, are they effectively overcosted in a TSons army?

The problem is that chaos knights don't really add much to a thousand sons army. Thousand sons struggle a bit after the point raise and losing more points to other stuff puts pressure on the thousand sons synergy. Also losing knight stratagems hurts a lot.

I tried putting my Scarabs in the Land Raider yesterday to take advantage of the Assault Ramp. Unfortunately I went first, so never got the chance to use it (they disembarked on a midfield objective turn 1). Then the Land Raider was out of position with them when it would have been better holding the deployment zone objective and providing covering fire. Oh well, it was worth a try, but I don't think I'll bother again.

 dreadblade wrote:
I tried putting my Scarabs in the Land Raider yesterday to take advantage of the Assault Ramp. Unfortunately I went first, so never got the chance to use it (they disembarked on a midfield objective turn 1). Then the Land Raider was out of position with them when it would have been better holding the deployment zone objective and providing covering fire. Oh well, it was worth a try, but I don't think I'll bother again.

yeah, the trouble with land raiders is they are both armed like MBT while ALSO being a high capacity transport, and have points to match those two roles, but its very difficult to to actually use it as both, so your always paying for capability your not using properly.

a Thousand Sons lascannon-armed predator costs 130pts, and a rhino costs 75*. Together, they are STILL cheaper than a Land Raider (205 pts vs 240 for a LR). The only advantage of the LR is the assault ramp trick, but Tsons dont really have a suitable payload for that anyway. Dont get me wrong scarabs aren't bad at melee, but their not the sort of melee blender we'd need to make that tactic viable, especially at a buy-in price of 419 or even 634 points (for 5 and 10 scarabs).



*yes, i know you can't put termies in a rhino, but you get the point.

xerxeskingofking wrote:

 dreadblade wrote:
I tried putting my Scarabs in the Land Raider yesterday to take advantage of the Assault Ramp. Unfortunately I went first, so never got the chance to use it (they disembarked on a midfield objective turn 1). Then the Land Raider was out of position with them when it would have been better holding the deployment zone objective and providing covering fire. Oh well, it was worth a try, but I don't think I'll bother again.

yeah, the trouble with land raiders is they are both armed like MBT while ALSO being a high capacity transport, and have points to match those two roles, but its very difficult to to actually use it as both, so your always paying for capability your not using properly.

a Thousand Sons lascannon-armed predator costs 130pts, and a rhino costs 75*. Together, they are STILL cheaper than a Land Raider (205 pts vs 240 for a LR). The only advantage of the LR is the assault ramp trick, but Tsons dont really have a suitable payload for that anyway. Dont get me wrong scarabs aren't bad at melee, but their not the sort of melee blender we'd need to make that tactic viable, especially at a buy-in price of 419 or even 634 points (for 5 and 10 scarabs).



*yes, i know you can't put termies in a rhino, but you get the point.

Yea also the Land Raider for TS doesn't benefit from (maybe the remove armor but that is it) or contribute to the cabal, and doesn't benefit from the detachment rule which is two strikes. The CSM one can actually be pretty good as they have good units to deliver (aka chosen) and the nurgle sustained hits on the LCs can really add some serious damage. And I believe the TS one is the same price. Without a hefty price reduction to recognize that our army rule and detachment rule does not help it, there really is no point. That is true of basically all of our vehicles. Our lists are really pigeon holed right now due to the lack of diversity in the detachment which combined with the army rule (which i do love btw, not saying they should change it) we are really encouraged to play massive amounts of characters. Most of which need to be leading something, which really doesn't leave much points for vehicles. Since we know our book is fall at best, hopefully GW will give some points cuts to make things interesting.

So the balance pass is out and for the Thousand Sons it might as well be September of 2023. No changes in any way what so ever. So disappointing, it definitely feels like no one on the GW staff gives even half a sh*t about the TS. I mean the CSM vehicles are grossly overcosted, the points nerfs to scarbs and rubrics in the last pass seemed unnecessary then, but really so now, and while the Dark Eldar really needed help, I am super jelly that they got a new detachment, when ours is starting to feel so same same every time I play. So much for trying to fix "internal balance" as our lists are basically going to be exactly the same every game with very minor differences for at least the next 6 months.

So no one has talked about Thousand Sons in a while, (really nothing to talk about) but I found this on Blood of Kittens. A list that won a tournament that was not the standard Magnus, Ahriman, sorcerers, with all flame rubrics and some AT or action money support. This list does still have Magnus however (he is the best individual model in the game).

https://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Nico-Urrea-1st-Place-Hammer-of-Wrath-GT-2024-%E2%80%93-Thousand-Sons-Allies.pdf

Also since I am bored at work and don't feel like doing anything right now, and there is absolutely no real discussion to be had on Thousand Son's tactics (other than the list posted basically all competitive lists are 90% the same) I figured maybe it would be fun to discuss what I hope will come in the codex which is not going to be until at least late spring of next year.

First I think there is no way that there will be more than 4 or 5 detachments in the book. 4 seems to be the minimum for codexes (3 for supplements) and I don't think Thousand Sons will have all that many. There will be the index one probably a bit reworked, I bet we get a hypercrypt style one, probably one focusing on Tgors and mutaliths, and one more which I don't have a guess.

For new units (if we in fact get any) I think we will get some kind of automaton type units as this has be hinted at in the lore, and the 30k TS use them as well.

I hope we can get a psychic dread, that would be awesome, but since the blood angels just lost theirs hopes are not high.

Maybe a unit of rubrics on discs would be cool, armed with flamers or soulreapers or something.

I hope we get something that is not just another character, as our armies are already character heavy as is, and I don't see what character we could even need.

For units there is one major thing I really want to see. Rubrics broken into two different data sheets, one for the bolters (with like 1 in 5 flamer) and one for the all flamer load out. The flamers are just flatly superior to the bolters, and are probably getting another price increase with the data slate coming out seeing how they are in basically EVERY list. Which sucks for the bolters which are already way over priced at the current points. Since GW is not going back to equipment costs until at least 11th, if even then, splitting this weapon load to a different data sheet is the best option. Also, you could make the flamer one different with out battleline and a lower OC, which would give them a different role than the bolter ones.

The rest of the book will probably just be more of the same, but I hope they make it so other choices are at least somewhat interesting compared to Magnus who I think is going to get a huge nerf when the book comes out.

I would also love if each detachment only had 5 strategems, but each one had its own unique Cabal Spell, which would really make each detachment feel different. On that note I also hope they don't change the army rule away from the Cabals as that rules really makes the thousand sons feel like a psychic army.

Anyway anyone else have an opinion of what they would like to see for Thousand Sons?

 xeen wrote:
Anyway anyone else have an opinion of what they would like to see for Thousand Sons?

Maybe some kind of rogue psyker to hang out with cultists?

These are all just spit balling ideas, and some may not be particularly balanced, but they would add some much needed variety to the list.

Cultists and Spawn can ride in Rhinos. Spawn take up three slots each (so, six slots for a unit of two). This allows for scouting transports, mixed Rubric/Spawn assault waves, or even just a Rhino full of gribbly melee tanks.

Thousand Sons only have to take a battle line Daemon unit if they're taking an Epic Hero (each one). So if you want a unit or two of Flamers or Screamers, or even Exalted Flamers or a Greater Daemon, you can. But stuff like the Changeling still comes with a tax.

We should have a Devastators unit, even if it's a direct copy/paste from SM. They can ride in Rhinos, and can be led by whatever sorcerer. Just to add a bit of variety to weapon types, and it not be quite so all-or-nothing on cabal points.

Rubric Bolters could be Psychic by default. They're not cheap units anyway, but they'd be pretty scary with Dev Wounds or Sustained or Lethal Hits. Might be a touch too good, but it'd certainly be a choice between them and Flamers.

Daemon Princes (and winged ones) should have deepstrike. It's not really going to change how fast we move, but it does make them a more viable option. They rarely get taken right now. Guns could use Psychic as well as their melee attacks.

I'd probably give Dreadnoughts Psychic weapons as well, or at least a once-a-battle turn of it. Makes them a lot more versatile in target types and usage.


((Ps, I like that list posted above. It's kind of like a Knights list, with Magnus being a big knight, and the mutas, forgefieds and karnivore subbing in for wardogs. But you've also got some infantry and objective control. Looks pretty fun to play.))

"Thousand Sons only have to take a battle line Daemon unit if they're taking an Epic Hero (each one). So if you want a unit or two of Flamers or Screamers, or even Exalted Flamers or a Greater Daemon, you can. But stuff like the Changeling still comes with a tax".

This should actually be the rule for all chaos armies, as taking a unit of flamers or bloodcrushers was not breaking the meta, it was the nuglings and lone op crap that was.

I like the suggestions so far. A psyker cultist leader would be cool and make them more distinct from CSM cultists. We definitely need some more AT power as well, so devastator style squad would be good.

There are some rumors floating around about daemons being folded into a book with the distinct god legions. I am not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, every major engagement I have read concerning Thousand Sons post-heresy they always use daemons in droves to supplement their rather small force of rubrics. But then I don't want to book to devolve into magnus plus daemons and lose the thousand sons feel of it. Also that would suck for anyone who wants to run mixed daemons.

thoughts?

 xeen wrote:
"Thousand Sons only have to take a battle line Daemon unit if they're taking an Epic Hero (each one). So if you want a unit or two of Flamers or Screamers, or even Exalted Flamers or a Greater Daemon, you can. But stuff like the Changeling still comes with a tax".

This should actually be the rule for all chaos armies, as taking a unit of flamers or bloodcrushers was not breaking the meta, it was the nuglings and lone op crap that was.

I like the suggestions so far. A psyker cultist leader would be cool and make them more distinct from CSM cultists. We definitely need some more AT power as well, so devastator style squad would be good.

There are some rumors floating around about daemons being folded into a book with the distinct god legions. I am not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, every major engagement I have read concerning Thousand Sons post-heresy they always use daemons in droves to supplement their rather small force of rubrics. But then I don't want to book to devolve into magnus plus daemons and lose the thousand sons feel of it. Also that would suck for anyone who wants to run mixed daemons.

thoughts?

AoS does a Tzeentch book and its the most tzeentchian fun i've ever had, you can still opt to focus on mortals, on demons or go for a mixed force. I eagerly await the possibilty of my demons and thousand sons having some synergy

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 xeen wrote:
"Thousand Sons only have to take a battle line Daemon unit if they're taking an Epic Hero (each one). So if you want a unit or two of Flamers or Screamers, or even Exalted Flamers or a Greater Daemon, you can. But stuff like the Changeling still comes with a tax".

This should actually be the rule for all chaos armies, as taking a unit of flamers or bloodcrushers was not breaking the meta, it was the nuglings and lone op crap that was.

I like the suggestions so far. A psyker cultist leader would be cool and make them more distinct from CSM cultists. We definitely need some more AT power as well, so devastator style squad would be good.

There are some rumors floating around about daemons being folded into a book with the distinct god legions. I am not sure how I feel about that. On the one hand, every major engagement I have read concerning Thousand Sons post-heresy they always use daemons in droves to supplement their rather small force of rubrics. But then I don't want to book to devolve into magnus plus daemons and lose the thousand sons feel of it. Also that would suck for anyone who wants to run mixed daemons.

thoughts?

AoS does a Tzeentch book and its the most tzeentchian fun i've ever had, you can still opt to focus on mortals, on demons or go for a mixed force. I eagerly await the possibilty of my demons and thousand sons having some synergy

Be careful what you wish for, especially where Tzeentch is concerned. I could be wrong, but I don't see a lot of synergy between Arcanites and Daemons in Age of Sigmar right now.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Be careful what you wish for, especially where Tzeentch is concerned. I could be wrong, but I don't see a lot of synergy between Arcanites and Daemons in Age of Sigmar right now.

The main "synergy" is that you can bring them together with no downside really.

-They both benefit from the same army rule, unlike 40k.
-There is no pts limit for either half, unlike 40k
-The army as a whole feels tzeentchian in the way it plays, unlike 40k

It's more of a list composition boon, where lesser demons are your "shitters" that can screen/grab objectives or spread wyrdflame, and mortals are the more punchy half the faction. So bringing horrors, backed up by strong casters and punchy units is really nice.

It would be interesting if they made Rubrics much more elite, instead of Legionaries with a better bolter and 5++. Make them really tough but more expensive, then have the army rely on daemons and mortals for the numbers aspect, which would really feel like the Thousand Sons in the lore.

 xeen wrote:
It would be interesting if they made Rubrics much more elite, instead of Legionaries with a better bolter and 5++. Make them really tough but more expensive, then have the army rely on daemons and mortals for the numbers aspect, which would really feel like the Thousand Sons in the lore.

Rubrics are already muuuuch more elite feeling than Legionnaires tbh.

I wouldn't say no to all is dust being back tho

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 xeen wrote:
It would be interesting if they made Rubrics much more elite, instead of Legionaries with a better bolter and 5++. Make them really tough but more expensive, then have the army rely on daemons and mortals for the numbers aspect, which would really feel like the Thousand Sons in the lore.

Rubrics are already muuuuch more elite feeling than Legionnaires tbh.

I wouldn't say no to all is dust being back tho

Yea that would make them really outstanding and justify not using them as your mainstay, but as a elite to the daemon mortal forces, if they add those forces to the book