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On the one hand, the fate dice change DOES fix Eldar.

On the other hand, they fethed over sisters of battle for the sins of every other fething army.

Not as bad as Chaos Knights, though. Or guard. Sorry Guard.

ERJAK wrote:
On the one hand, the fate dice change DOES fix Eldar.

On the other hand, they fethed over sisters of battle for the sins of every other fething army.

Not as bad as Chaos Knights, though. Or guard. Sorry Guard.

Make a Sisters fix thread?
Would be interesting to see how people feel they can be boosted.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/05/warhammer-40000-updates-changes-to-strands-of-fate-towering-units-and-more/

Problem solved.

 bullyboy wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
On the one hand, the fate dice change DOES fix Eldar.

On the other hand, they fethed over sisters of battle for the sins of every other fething army.

Not as bad as Chaos Knights, though. Or guard. Sorry Guard.

Make a Sisters fix thread?
Would be interesting to see how people feel they can be boosted.

Index needs a full rewrite. Detachment rule is bad, units are bad, leadership is a mess, nothing has synergy with anything else. You could drop the whole army 30% and it wouldn't be good.

Related to Eldar. Going to one Fate Dice per phase makes them essentially old Miracle Dice, which is still a really good mechanic. Especially because it's pretty much always going to be a six thanks to frontloading and farseers.

However, I think that combined with the point bumps takes a lot of the edge off of Eldar and might even result in them being fair. I'm thinking GSC are gonna dominate now though. We'll see how the meta shakes out.

I probably won't bother playing any games until the Fall patch where they hopefully help make gak armies less unplayable, but at least it'll be interesting to watch things shake out.

Loopstah wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/05/warhammer-40000-updates-changes-to-strands-of-fate-towering-units-and-more/

Problem solved.

Ha, GW decided to just take a sledgehammer to all the WKs. Not surprising. The Suncannon and Glaive variants did not really deserve the nerf, but this is the paradigm we're in. Whatever.

The Fire Prism nerf also doesn't seem harsh enough? Like it still punches way above its points IMO.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/05/warhammer-40000-updates-changes-to-strands-of-fate-towering-units-and-more/

Problem solved.

Ha, GW decided to just take a sledgehammer to all the WKs. Not surprising. The Suncannon and Glaive variants did not really deserve the nerf, but this is the paradigm we're in. Whatever.

The Fire Prism nerf also doesn't seem harsh enough? Like it still punches way above its points IMO.

The fact that it's STILL cheaper than an Exorcist is kind of insulting, ngl.

Its a start I guess.

Support platform whacked too. Like you will ever take an vibro cannon or shadow weaver now. This one points for all options is DUMB!
While GW stays with this concept, WYSIWYG is completely out the window for me. Feth that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Wow, they added 30pts to the Exorcist like that needed nerfing, wtf?

Whomever predicted that the Field Ordnance would get smacked even though 2 out of the 3 options they have don't even have Indirect Fire, well done.

This wouldn't be an issue if the different weapons had different points values. Now if you want the direct versions, you're paying the penalty for the indirect ones.

This is so pants-on-head stupid that it boggles the mind.

Oh, and let's just put the Lord of Skulls up a whole bunch of points because... ? Oh, and Death Guard are saved. Plague Marines can be taken in units of 7 again.

So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

This perfectly sums up how ridiculous the “points” system is.

The sword and shied Wriathknight gets completely shatter because of the sins of the double D-cannon ones.

I don’t see how anyone but the most toxically positive of fanboys can still pretend like this is better than different loadouts costing different points.

——————

 tauist wrote:
So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

It's fixed some problems, but created new ones and ignored others. At best it's neutral. They seem to have done a general increase to all indirect fire weapons, even things like Exorcists that weren't really all that good. It just screams "lazy" to me at first glance.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Whomever predicted that the Field Ordnance would get smacked even though 2 out of the 3 options they have don't even have Indirect Fire, well done.

This wouldn't be an issue if the different weapons had different points values. Now if you want the direct versions, you're paying the penalty for the indirect ones.

This is so pants-on-head stupid that it boggles the mind.

Oh, and let's just put the Lord of Skulls up a whole bunch of points because... ? Oh, and Death Guard are saved. Plague Marines can be taken in units of 7 again.

But only Death Guard. Allowing 8 Berserkers or 9 Rubric Marines is just one bridge too far...

 tauist wrote:
So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

That depends what your models were built with, which is sort of the issue.

Overall it likely made the game a little better, I'm not sure price hiking knights makes towering suddenly not a problem necessarily, but the various hits reduced some of the bad guys in the meta.

Where it makes it worse is that the less ridiculous builds of the models which didn't cause problems are now nuked by virtue of sharing a box with the one build that was a problem.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Whomever predicted that the Field Ordnance would get smacked even though 2 out of the 3 options they have don't even have Indirect Fire, well done.

This wouldn't be an issue if the different weapons had different points values. Now if you want the direct versions, you're paying the penalty for the indirect ones.

This is so pants-on-head stupid that it boggles the mind.

Oh, and let's just put the Lord of Skulls up a whole bunch of points because... ? Oh, and Death Guard are saved. Plague Marines can be taken in units of 7 again.

But only Death Guard. Allowing 8 Berserkers or 9 Rubric Marines is just one bridge too far...

Well berserkers and rubrics come in boxes of 10, so...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Oh, and let's just put the Lord of Skulls up a whole bunch of points because... ?

You just don't get it. You're a WAAC donkey-cave if you're not willing to pay 888 points for the Lord of Skulls.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Oh, and let's just put the Lord of Skulls up a whole bunch of points because... ?

You just don't get it. You're a WAAC donkey-cave if you're not willing to pay 888 points for the Lord of Skulls.

Ofc. It might not have anything to do with having 2 decent guns on a towering platform though, it is indeed a thinly veiled insult at tournament players who can't have fun.

 tauist wrote:
So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

I am actually impressed they did some

 Mr Morden wrote:

 tauist wrote:
So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

I am actually impressed they did some

Consider having better standards then because there is no world where blanket downward changes even to units that don't warrant it (the Exorcist hahahahahah) is good balancing. It's lazy balancing from a team that barely pays attention to or cares about its rules.

But who cares? Most of the people on this site and all the other Warhammer communities will still support this company.

Dudeface 810589 11561544 wrote:

Ofc. It might not have anything to do with having 2 decent guns on a towering platform though, it is indeed a thinly veiled insult at tournament players who can't have fun.

But Dude, if the problem is towering, and you fixed it by changing the skill in some way, then a ton of products may become "confusing" and not be bought. By changing point costs you don't change much for the best, kill the non best options and don't have to worry that boxes/codex come with cards with wrong stuff writen on them. The next 5-6 books are already writen and 1-2 probably printed or being printed, GW can't afford to suddenly change how a rule works.

But joke aside, I love the fact that purgations squads, with their sudo LoS shoting with flamers, got the Desolator treatment. Take that power armoured GK players, feel the burn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Void__Dragon wrote:


Consider having better standards then because there is no world where blanket downward changes even to units that don't warrant it (the Exorcist hahahahahah) is good balancing. It's lazy balancing from a team that barely pays attntion to or cares about its rules.

But who cares? Most of the people on this site and all the other Warhammer communities will still support this company.

But what are the changes really. Some B or C level units got nerfed in B or C level armies. Eldar went from S++ tier army to either second or third best army in the game. The no nerf GSC, without the eldar and knights to reign them in, become the new S++ unkillable army of doom. etc

And the funny thing about watching the changes is that all of this is stuff that already happened in the past. Fixed results in a game based on rolling random numbers creates skews. Ignoring LoS in a shoting focused game creates an enviroment where people just roll dice. Hundreds if not thousands of free points are VERY BAD for the game. GW has seen all of those things. They have seen them in 8th and in 9th, and I am sure they have seen those in prior editions too, judging by what old timers here say about pre 8th editions. Yet they do it the same over and over again.
Who thinks that GSC generating 1000-1500pts free points per game vs the best armies is going to be balanced?

Plus as a bonus GW did the same thing they always do, sprinkle some nerfs, some nerfs that shouldn't have happened, but they did nothing to fix the armies that are bad. Vottan, DG or Ad mech didn't become better after the change. Eldar and GSC switching places at the top does not make playing WE more enjoyable. In the end after three editions seen, I think it is not something that just happens, but a clear design choice by the company to write the rules in a specific way. It will never change, until the company dies one day.

A company that has no loans, is making more profit year after year "dies one day"? LMAO

GW will keep on plowing, despite the rules being what they are. GW is a miniatures company, not a wargame company. You are deluding yourself

 tauist wrote:
A company that has no loans, is making more profit year after year "dies one day"? LMAO

GW will keep on plowing, despite the rules being what they are. GW is a miniatures company, not a wargame company. You are deluding yourself

They lost money and customers during 7th. The situation is primed for that to happen again; 10th sucks, they don't playtest, there are other good miniatures games around.

No, the company is not leveraged enough to go under, but they could be in a rough spot. I hope they end up in that way, it'd be just.

Hecaton wrote:

 tauist wrote:
A company that has no loans, is making more profit year after year "dies one day"? LMAO

GW will keep on plowing, despite the rules being what they are. GW is a miniatures company, not a wargame company. You are deluding yourself

They lost money and customers during 7th. The situation is primed for that to happen again; 10th sucks, they don't playtest, there are other good miniatures games around.

No, the company is not leveraged enough to go under, but they could be in a rough spot. I hope they end up in that way, it'd be just.

I don't. I hope they issue rules corrects address the issues in 10th edition so that it's a great fun game we can all enjoy.

I

BrianDavion wrote:

Hecaton wrote:

 tauist wrote:
A company that has no loans, is making more profit year after year "dies one day"? LMAO

GW will keep on plowing, despite the rules being what they are. GW is a miniatures company, not a wargame company. You are deluding yourself

They lost money and customers during 7th. The situation is primed for that to happen again; 10th sucks, they don't playtest, there are other good miniatures games around.

No, the company is not leveraged enough to go under, but they could be in a rough spot. I hope they end up in that way, it'd be just.

I don't. I hope they issue rules corrects address the issues in 10th edition so that it's a great fun game we can all enjoy.

Which won't happen unless GW learns a lesson

nemesis464 wrote:
This perfectly sums up how ridiculous the “points” system is.

The sword and shied Wriathknight gets completely shatter because of the sins of the double D-cannon ones.

I don’t see how anyone but the most toxically positive of fanboys can still pretend like this is better than different loadouts costing different points.

——————

Fixing towering and indirect fire with points is just a terrible way to fix that problem.

BrianDavion wrote:

I don't. I hope they issue rules corrects address the issues in 10th edition so that it's a great fun game we can all enjoy.

I

I'm working with the framework/idea that GW will never change until they start feeling it.

I'd love for them to fix things but I think things need to get worse first.

Slipspace wrote:

 tauist wrote:
So their balance changes made things worse or better? Thats the only thing that matters

It's fixed some problems, but created new ones and ignored others. At best it's neutral. They seem to have done a general increase to all indirect fire weapons, even things like Exorcists that weren't really all that good. It just screams "lazy" to me at first glance.

If you were worried about the absolute most OP stuff as your #1 priority, they addressed those issues fairly well.

If you cared about ANYTHING ELSE, it wasn't good.

Tsagualsa wrote:
But only Death Guard. Allowing 8 Berserkers or 9 Rubric Marines is just one bridge too far...

Because it's based on how many come in the box, something that a certain someone denied until he was blue in the face, yet has been shown as true over and over and over and over and over again.

Just to confirm, the main change here is that Strands are once per phase now instead of being used any number of times in a given phase?

Well, at least they upped to the points of the prism to be higher than the night sp-Huh? They upped the cost of the night spinner by 30 points? But why though?

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Just to confirm, the main change here is that Strands are once per phase now instead of being used any number of times in a given phase?

Only change.
Its funny, I think it is actually possible (with enough units that create new Fate dice) to end up in a situation where you can't actually spend all your Fate Dice over the course of the game.

Well, at least they upped to the points of the prism to be higher than the night sp-Huh? They upped the cost of the night spinner by 30 points? But why though?

It has indirect fire, so it got slapped. This wasn't a reasoned approach to points adjustments, this was 'we're really doing this job in autumn, but here, quit complaining'